Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Tony Lloyd

Monday 21st November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

I strongly welcome the Secretary of State’s letter to local authorities over the weekend. It is right and proper that mould should be seen as a serious hazard to health. Does he agree that we also need regulatory powers, with resources to allow local government to implement those powers? Without that, we are simply using words and not action.

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We do place responsibilities on local authorities—the letter reinforces that—but they do need to be appropriately resourced. I look forward to working with them to ensure that the personnel and resources are there to keep everyone safe.

Social Housing Standards

Debate between Michael Gove and Tony Lloyd

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

A significant proportion of social housing homes are below standard—we think significantly more than 10%—but the proportion of homes that are below standard in the private rented sector is even higher.

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

There is no doubt that the death of Awaab was tragic, but it was also preventable and unforgivable. I endorse the exchange between the Secretary of State and my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy), in which some very important points were raised. I have limited time today, Madam Deputy Speaker, but perhaps I can make a few points.

At the national level, the Secretary of State rightly says we need the new definition of decent homes. Does that include classifying mould as a category 1 hazard, for example, because that would be an important step in providing protection? Will he also guarantee this important matter? There is a debate about the funding of local authorities, but there needs to be specific recognition that if we are to prevent this kind of tragedy, we must have enforcement and we must have structures that have the resources to enforce, such as local authority housing ombudsmen.

At the local level, the Secretary of State made reference to Rochdale Boroughwide Housing. I have to say that I have very little faith in the senior management of that body. There were so many ways in which this tragedy could have been prevented, so it is unforgivable that it has happened. Exemplary fines will not necessarily do the trick, however, because this simply penalises those who pay rents and penalises the taxpayer. There needs to be some personal responsibility in this, and the capacity for those at a senior level to face the consequences either legally, or in any case of losing their job. I would welcome an investigation into Rochdale Boroughwide Housing, and I hope this can now be done, because there are serious issues. I really do think that the chief executive, and perhaps some of those on other executive bodies, need to question their own role and whether they should be there any longer.

[Michael Gove]

I am very grateful to the hon. Member for the points he makes. Again, I express my sympathy to his constituents who have had to deal with some of the defects that Rochdale Boroughwide Housing has exhibited for some years now, and I know that he has consistently questioned the service they have received.

On the first point about damp and mould, it is already the case under the legislation introduced by the hon. Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck)—the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2018—that damp and mould is a No. 1 concern when it comes to whether a house is fit for human habitation. However, the hon. Member is quite right to say that, when it comes to identifying a category 1 hazard, reviewing that in the context of the decent homes standard is something we do have to do. I think that, under any circumstance or under any standard, the conditions in which Awaab’s family were living were simply not decent and would have failed the decent homes standard, but he is quite right that we need to keep these under constant review.

The hon. Member is also right to stress that, when it comes to appropriate support for people in all types of tenure, we need to make sure that local authorities are appropriately resourced to ensure that they can be the champions of those whom they are elected to represent.

Budget Resolutions

Debate between Michael Gove and Tony Lloyd

Monday 1st November 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Michael Gove)]

My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer delivered his Budget statement against the backdrop and in the shadow of the covid pandemic, but he also did so unveiling a new era of economic optimism, as we build back better after that pandemic and secure the investment required to make sure that every part of this United Kingdom flourishes economically and every citizen has the chance to achieve their fullest potential.

It was striking that the Office for Budget Responsibility, in its assessment of the Chancellor’s response to the covid pandemic, said that he was “remarkably successful” in the steps that he had put in place. It is important, against the backdrop of the Budget statement and the spending review that accompanies it, to reflect for a second on the Chancellor’s success. The plan for jobs, which he was responsible for, has ensured that, contrary to the grim expectations that we would face unemployment of perhaps 12%, it is now expected to be 5% at most. It is also striking that the Office for Budget Responsibility estimated that the scarring effect on the economy—the drop in GDP that we would inevitably suffer as a result of the covid pandemic—would no longer be 3%, but just 2%.

Those figures, which reflect the success of my right hon. Friend’s approach hitherto, should be in our mind as we consider the approach that he is taking, because it is only as a result of success in ensuring sound money, success in ensuring an approach towards a balanced budget that commands the confidence of the markets, and success in ensuring that more of our fellow citizens can remain in employment that we have the foundations today on which to build, unite and level up our country.

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

The right hon. Gentleman talks about success. In part of my constituency, child poverty is something of the order of 60%. That compares with a national average of just under 20%. Is that a success because, if not, what does levelling up mean for the children in my constituency?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. At the heart of levelling up is a recognition, as he rightly reminds the House, that while talent is spread equally across this country, opportunity is not. There is a series of measures in the Budget statement designed to specifically attack the problem of child poverty. The creation of new family hubs is specifically designed to address that, as is the additional investment in the supporting families programme, the successor to the troubled families programme.

I should add that the changes to the taper on universal credit will also ensure, allied to the changes in the national living wage, that someone who is on the minimum wage, who is therefore in work, and who is receiving universal credit will receive at least £250 extra a year as a direct result of the national living wage increase and an additional £1,000 a year as a result of the associated changes to the taper. I recognise that eradicating poverty is not the work of one Budget, but it is only fair that everyone across the House recognises that there are measures in this Budget statement—measures being taken by this Government—directly to address the problems that the hon. Gentleman raises, because they are a scar that needs to be healed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Tony Lloyd

Thursday 12th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

What recent assessment he has made of the progress of the UK’s negotiations with the EU.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove)]

Negotiations are continuing in London this week, and this of course is a continuation of the intensive talks that both sides agreed to on 21 October. Progress is being made, but divergences remain. That said, the UK will continue to engage in negotiations on a free trade agreement, and the UK’s negotiation team, led by Lord Frost, will continue to work hard to find solutions that, of course, fully respect the United Kingdom’s regained sovereignty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Gove]

The UK has already shown a great degree of flexibility in these negotiations, but it is that the European Union shows flexibility too, and in particular there needs to be full recognition that we are sovereign equals, and any attempt to continue to tie the UK into EU processes or to extend EU jurisdiction by other means will be quite wrong.

[Tony Lloyd [V]]

May I remind the Minister that the Road Haulage Association described the Government’s preparations for the transition as not only “chaotic” but “pathetic” and said that

“logistics may not be able to deliver”?

The Minister has a deserved reputation for politeness, but can he also be candid and give us a guarantee that there will be no jobs lost and no goods not delivered, particularly to and from Northern Ireland, when we hit the end of the transition period?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point, and in his time in this House he has been a distinguished champion of the rights of the people of Northern Ireland. It is very important in the discussions that we have in the Joint Committee that we make sure that we implement the protocol on the future of Northern Ireland in a way that ensures that its people can continue to have unfettered access to the rest of the UK, and in particular that we can maintain the flow of goods that are so vital to the life of the Province. That is why I am confident that the Vice-President of the European Commission, Maroš Šefčovič, who is the co-chair of the Joint Committee, will work pragmatically, as he has in the past, to ensure that the people of Northern Ireland have a secure future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Tony Lloyd

Thursday 20th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend is right. He was a brilliant fisheries Minister, who was responsible within the EU for ensuring that the common fisheries policy, imperfect as it is in so many ways, was reformed to deal with discards and to develop our fish stocks on a more sustainable basis. Outside the EU, as an independent coastal state, we can do even more, but he is right that conservation must be at the heart of our policy.

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

May I return to the issue of animal welfare? The Secretary of State will recognise that the use of antibiotics in farming is part of an animal welfare regime. However, there is massive concern that overuse of antibiotics is destroying their effectiveness, both for animals and humans. What can be done to reverse this trend?

School Closures (Thursday)

Debate between Michael Gove and Tony Lloyd

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I absolutely sympathise with the points made by my hon. Friend and I recognise that there will be an economic cost as a result of the disruption caused by this strike. We will, of course, do everything we can to ensure that schools remain open so that the economic and social impact is lessened.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

If the Secretary of State really is sincere about wanting to bring this to a resolution, will he go back to the teachers’ leaders and negotiate on the basis that the 3% Treasury tax on pensions will now be subject to review—will he get rid of that, because if he does not do so, he is not negotiating in good faith?

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the point he makes. The truth is that the specific increase in contributions applies not only to teachers, but to public sector workers across the piece—it is one of the issues that affects all public sector unions. The public sector unions affected, apart from the teachers’ unions and the Public and Commercial Services Union, are not going on strike on Thursday. We can thus infer that there are other unions that, whatever their views on the requirement to increase contributions, believe it is important to conclude the conversation and dialogue about the state of public sector pensions overall before taking any decision about action.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Tony Lloyd

Monday 23rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for the points that she makes. She is a consistent champion of helping people from poorer backgrounds to do better in state education. I place on the record my thanks to her for the support that she has given the outstanding team of teachers at Durand academy. I hope that this new initiative ensures that the children at that school continue to have an education of the highest quality. I am sure that we can make common cause of our shared commitment to ensuring that children from poorer backgrounds enjoy the sort of education previously restricted to those from richer backgrounds.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

13. What recent assessment he has made of the condition of maintained school buildings.

[The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)]

The Department for Education and Skills took the decision to no longer collect information on the condition of maintained school buildings in 2005 under the previous Government. The review of education capital undertaken by Sebastian James recommends the implementation of a rolling programme of condition data collection to provide a picture of investment needs. To help us consider our response to that recommendation, we have recently asked some local authorities to provide details of the condition information that they currently hold on their estates.

[Tony Lloyd]

I think the House will recognise that that answer is only marginally helpful. Under the last Labour Government, a lot of secondary and primary schools in inner-city areas such as mine were rebuilt. At the moment, it is very unlikely that any primary schools, even those in great need, will see rebuilding or major refurbishment programmes. When will the money be available to those schools to ensure that children in inner cities get the education they deserve?

[Michael Gove]

I will say two things. First, I recognise that many schools are in a desperately poor condition and need investment. Secondly, any question about investment can only elicit the reply that the Minister of State, Department for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb) gave earlier, which is that when Opposition Members ask for more investment, they should ask themselves one question: who is responsible for the desperate state of the economy that we inherited after 13 years of comprehensive mismanagement?

--- Later in debate ---

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)]

One of my Department’s aims is to ensure that the most talented people possible are teaching our children. Teachers from the European economic area can already teach in our schools. Today I want to extend that freedom to teachers from Commonwealth countries such as Canada, New Zealand and Australia, and I hope that other Commonwealth countries such as South Africa, Jamaica and Singapore can join in due course.

[Tony Lloyd]

Would the Secretary of State like to compare the answer of the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, when he talked about the ecumenical nature of the Government in wanting to meet the needs and hopes of young people in education, to his own horribly brazen party political response, when I asked him about school building for children in inner-city areas? Will he come to Manchester and see some of these schools so that we can discuss how to improve the situation?

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning is blessedly ecumenical, but I am afraid I am sometimes more narrowly Presbyterian in my approach. However, it would be a pleasure to visit Manchester again. I have enjoyed it in the past, and I know that when it comes to speaking up for his constituents, the hon. Gentleman does a great job. I would be happy to work with him.

Schools White Paper

Debate between Michael Gove and Tony Lloyd

Wednesday 24th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I have been working with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills to ensure that we can help more people studying modern languages, particularly Mandarin and strategic subjects, into teaching. I was fortunate enough to be in China with my right hon. Friend two weeks ago, when we received funding from the Confucius Institute to ensure that there will be 1,000 new trained teachers of Mandarin, and that the fantastic work being done in the school in my hon. Friend’s constituency is spread more widely.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State add to the guarantee that he seemed to give earlier that no school would lose as a result of the pupil premium? Will he give me a guarantee that no inner-city school in Manchester will suffer either a relative or an absolute loss of funding as a result of his proposals?

[Michael Gove]

No school will suffer as a result of our proposals. It will, of course, be for Manchester as a local authority to decide, when it receives its funding, how it will allocate it in consultation with its schools forum. Some schools—this happens every year—have declining rolls and sometimes have to adjust their budgets because of that, but the pupil premium itself means more money, particularly for the poorest.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Tony Lloyd

Monday 7th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

12. What his Department’s priorities will be in allocating funding for new school building.

[The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)]

I am currently reviewing the methods by which capital has been allocated to schools, to ensure that we can build schools more effectively and cost-efficiently in the future.

[Tony Lloyd]

I thank the Secretary of State for his answer. During the period of the last Labour Government, many roofs were repaired—when the sun was shining. Can he give an absolute guarantee that schools in a constituency such as mine, which were not part of that programme but still need some catching up, will be rebuilt or properly maintained?

[Michael Gove]

I know that the hon. Gentleman has a number of great schools in his constituency that have benefited from investment, not least Manchester academy, which is achieving outstanding results. Manchester is approaching the conclusion of its final business case for specific funding under the Building Schools for the Future programme. I want to make sure that before we go any further we strip out any bureaucratic costs with which either Manchester’s council tax payers or Manchester’s teachers might be saddled to ensure that we get the maximum amount of spending to the front line.