Extremism Definition and Community Engagement

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Thursday 14th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

During her time in the Home Office, my right hon. Friend initiated and took forward fantastic work to deal with extremism and intolerance. She is right that the definition does not impinge or alter the legal threshold for prosecution where people incite violence. Indeed, there are arguments for looking again at our laws to make sure that they are fit for purpose, but today’s definition is not about changing the criminal law; it is about setting a threshold. That threshold will be evidenced when we come forward with the list of organisations that we believe meet this bar, with evidence that everyone can see makes a compelling case that the ideology that spurs those organisations is extremist in nature.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State, in my view very unwisely, recently closed down the Inter Faith Network, which facilitates the kind of dialogue he praised in his statement. He closed it down on the grounds that one of its 22 trustees is connected with the Muslim Council of Britain. If an organisation unjustly finds itself on his proposed list, will it have the opportunity to appeal against its inclusion?

[Michael Gove]

We have not closed down the Inter Faith Network. We ceased our funding, and the Inter Faith Network draws its funding from a variety of sources. We will apply appropriate due diligence and publish evidence. If anyone believes our judgment is wrong, as in any case where it is believed that the Government have acted unreasonably, the option of judicial review is always available.

Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

2nd reading
Monday 11th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I believe it will. I must now make progress because I know a number of people want to contribute, so I will try to run through the other arguments about why we are taking the approach that we are.

I mentioned service charges, and one other example, to which the Father of the House has of course persistently drawn our attention, of where those who have been managing properties on behalf of the ultimate owners have abused their position is that of insurance commissions. We will be taking steps in the Bill to make sure that insurance charges are transparent and that fair handling fees are brought in. The fact that I can list all these examples just shows hon. Members the way in which freeholders have operated. Many who have got hold of such freeholds have been thinking, “Right, okay, we can jack up the ground rent, great! We can have service charges, keep them opaque and add something. Tell you what—insurance; let’s try to get more out of that.” It is a persistent pattern of behaviour that does require reform.

Another pattern of behaviour is the way that lease extensions and the whole question of enfranchisement have been going. If someone’s lease goes below 80 years and they want to enfranchise themselves, they have to pay what is called marriage value. That is the principle that, by bringing together the ownership of the freehold and the leasehold in one by enfranchising themselves—bringing those two together in a marriage—people are enriching themselves. Again, however, it has been used by freeholders to bilk leaseholders overall, which is why the approach we are taking will in effect eliminate marriage value. It is also why, when we talk about lease extension, instead of people having to extend and extend again generation after generation, we are saying that leases can be extended to 990 years. In effect, as I say, this will make sure that one of the approaches that freeholders have taken to extracting more cash from leaseholders will end.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

I agree with the Secretary of State about the seriousness of the problem of excessive insurance premiums being charged to leaseholders, and I will give an example if I am able to contribute later. Does the Secretary of State agree that the solution requires risk-pooling among insurers? The initiative on that seems to have stalled; can he hold out the prospect of the delay being resolved?

Renters (Reform) Bill

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

2nd reading
Monday 23rd October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

What I would like to see in my hon. Friend’s constituency and so many others is an increase in housing overall—houses for social rent, for private rent and, above all, for people to own. As the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) pointed out, there is a particular challenge in the very attractive parts of the country, such as those my hon. Friend represents, that attract tourism.

There has been a phenomenon whereby houses that would have been available for rent to the local community have been Airbnb-ised, although not just through that company. They have been turned into short-term lets and effectively been operating as shadow B&Bs or shadow hotels. There is nothing wrong—there is everything right—with making sure that we utilise property as efficiently as possible, but that has created percussive and deleterious consequences in some areas. That is why we are consulting on both using the planning system and also, with our colleagues in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, a form of registration to ensure that the situation works. Ultimately, however, the challenge is increasing supply overall.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State has just mentioned the private rental ombudsman, a post that I welcome. Is he considering the case for giving that job to the existing housing ombudsman, who supports the social housing sector at the moment?

[Michael Gove]

Yes, we are. There is a case for both a separate organisation and for having the issue fall to the existing ombudsman—who, I have to say, has been doing a very effective job.

I must draw my remarks to a close shortly so that all colleagues who wish to contribute can, but the right hon. Gentleman’s intervention provides me an opportunity to suggest that the condition of housing in this country—particularly housing built in the ’50s, ’60s and ’70s—is a profound cause for concern. Many of those homes are reaching the end of their natural lives. As a result of how they were built, we are seeing not just building safety issues but children in particular living in homes that are not decent.

The tragedy of Awaab Ishak’s death reminded us that damp, mould and other poor housing conditions can have a deleterious effect not just on life chances but on lives themselves. That is why the Social Housing (Regulation) Act, the actions of the housing ombudsman and the actions that my Department has taken have been focused on ensuring that registered providers and social landlords live up to their responsibilities.

What we seek to do in the Bill is ensure that the small minority of private sector landlords who also need to up their game do so. We are not targeting any one sector. We are not targeting registered providers of social housing while leaving the private rented sector off the hook; nor are we directing particular attention to the private rented sector and letting registered social landlords off the hook. What we are doing is ensuring that citizens, who deserve a warm, decent, safe home, get one. That is what the establishment of the decent homes standard through this legislation will do.

Building Safety

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

Yes. The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point, and he is absolutely right: co-operation between councils, between the UK Government and local authorities in devolved areas, and between the UK Government and devolved Administrations is the way forward. We all deserve Governments who are working together to resolve this issue. He makes a very good point: in Aberdeen, as well as in Dundee, Glasgow, Edinburgh and some other areas, there are high-rise buildings that are in precisely this situation. It would be a pleasure to work with the Lib Dem coalition council in Aberdeen to try to make sure that that council can benefit from the experience of local authorities in England.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

During the Secretary of State’s statement on 30 January, I asked about the problem of excessive insurance charges being imposed on leaseholders. He recognised the problem, and promised

“additional Financial Conduct Authority and Government co-ordinated action”—[Official Report, 30 January 2023; Vol. 727, c. 55.]

to address it. Can the Secretary of State update us on progress? By the way, he has not yet replied to my letter to him on this subject, dated 13 January.

[Michael Gove]

I apologise to the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee for the discourtesy. I will have a word with my private office team; it is my fault that he has not received a reply.

I hope to update the House shortly on the progress we are making with the FCA and others on insurance costs. When I made the statement last time around, I explained the steps we are taking with managing agents and intermediaries, but the right hon. Gentleman is right—as is the Father of the House, my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley)—that there are broader issues in the insurance market that we need to address.

Building Safety

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Monday 30th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I do not doubt the hon. Gentleman’s passion and commitment on this issue. I trespassed on the House’s patience by speaking for more than 10 minutes, so there were a number of issues that I did not cover. I hope to be able to do so in greater detail at departmental questions and through correspondence. The nub of the matter is that this Government have acted, and are acting, to ensure that social housing tenants get a better deal. The announcement I made last week, while it is only £30 million, is earnest in its intent to ensure that tenants in social homes get money from central Government in order to ensure that they are safe.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

My constituents welcome the Secretary of State’s grasp of their problems, but his changes have required some arrangements that were previously in place to be reworked. In the case of Barrier Point in my constituency, the insurers have responded to the delay by increasing the insurance charges for the coming financial year sixfold, as set out in my letter to him dated 13 January. Will the changes that he has announced offer any assistance and relief to them?

[Michael Gove]

They should do. Again, the right hon. Gentleman homes in on something that is very important, as have a number of other colleagues. Developers are stepping up to the plate and accepting their responsibilities, with one or two exceptions, and those developers have to alter their behaviour. It is also the case that lenders, for the most part, have changed their behaviour in order to help people who are trapped by their mortgages—but we have to monitor that behaviour. There are others—and the insurers as well as construction product manufacturers are squarely in our gun sights—who do need to do more. I believe that what we have announced today will help, but there does need to be additional Financial Conduct Authority and Government co-ordinated action. If the right hon. Gentleman has not yet received a response to his letter, I hope to lay out in my response exactly what we will do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Monday 16th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

In the Homes for Ukraine scheme, it is left to the individuals involved to sort out matches with hosts for themselves, often through ad hoc Facebook groups. It is not surprising that that has led to reports such as:

“Ukrainian refugees using Facebook groups to seek a safe home in the UK are being put at risk of sexual exploitation”.

Criminal record checks on their own cannot prevent such exploitation. What assurance can the Secretary of State give in respect of the rigour and effectiveness of the separate home checks that are undertaken for the scheme?

[Michael Gove]

The right hon. Gentleman raises an important question. I am very grateful to the more than 100,000 UK citizens who have signed up to offer their homes for the scheme. As well as criminal record and police national computer checks before visas are granted, there are vetting and barring and other checks, often conducted by local authorities, at the time that individuals find themselves in homes. I would be more than happy to provide the right hon. Gentleman and others with a full briefing about the processes we undertake.

Building Safety

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Monday 10th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State spell out how the statutory protection he has announced will help leaseholders in developments such as Waterside Park, built by Barratt in my constituency, which does not have a cladding problem, but where apartments have become valueless because of other serious building defects—missing firebreaks and unsafe insulation? How exactly will the statutory protection help them?

[Michael Gove]

I rely on the right hon. Gentleman’s description of the building, but we will talk to Barratt or whoever is the ultimate owner in order to ensure that they live up to their responsibilities, and there are steps that we can take. We will outline what they are when we bring forward appropriate amendments. We will make sure that we test those amendments with him and others to ensure that they meet the need that he has correctly identified. There is still a little bit of legal work to be done to ensure that the amendments are as robust as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Monday 29th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I would hate to be a developer facing my hon. Friend. When it comes to these speculative and ill-thought-out planning applications, developers had better put on their armour because she fires truth bullets at them from the hip, and repeatedly. Of course it is vital that we protect our green belt. However, the best protection that any local authority can have is to make sure its plan is properly designed and adopted.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

T10. Lease-holders in Kingfisher Court, built by Barratt in my constituency, have just been told that, unlike leaseholders in very similar buildings nearby, their application to the building safety fund has been rejected. They do not know why, and they now face bankruptcy. Can the right hon. Gentleman offer any reassurance that I can take when I meet them later this evening?

[Michael Gove]

Yes. I take this incredibly seriously. The right hon. Gentleman’s office may have already been in touch with the Department, but if it can be in touch with my private office directly, I will see what we can provide by way of additional information before he sees his constituents later. Whatever information we can provide in the meantime, let us try to make sure we can have a proper conversation about how we can resolve this problem in depth.

EU Withdrawal Agreement

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I absolutely do, and I also hope that on the EU side we see something of the same pragmatism that we have seen on this particular issue.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

If there is no data adequacy agreement by the end of this month, what is the right hon. Gentleman’s current estimate of the legal and admin cost to businesses of putting in place the new contractual clauses they will have to introduce in order to continue to exchange data with their European partners?

[Michael Gove]

That is a very important question. I do not have an exact estimate of what the cost of the standard contractual clauses would be, but because we are currently compliant with the general data protection regulation, I see no reason why data adequacy should not be granted.

EU Exit: End of Transition Period

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Monday 13th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is the case that Grimsby and Immingham are hugely important ports not just for EU trade, but for rest-of-the-world trade. As I mentioned in quoting from the authoritative figures who appeared in front of the Future Relationship with the European Union Committee, there are significant opportunities for people to play a role in the expansion of international trade. These are new jobs, which are designed to make sure that Britain goes global.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

Last September, the Minister acknowledged that there is a material risk of long delays at Dover. Will he tell us what his current assessment of that risk is? The Freight Transport Association pointed out that there are only 300 spaces in the lorry park at Calais, where thousands of lorries coming from Dover are likely to be checked every day. Is he now proposing that all 10,000 lorries heading for Dover will be checked somewhere in the UK before they arrive there? How many officials will it require to carry out those checks, and will he tell us the shortlist of locations where those checks might be carried out?

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for referring back to the time when I appeared in front of the Exiting the European Union Committee, chaired by the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn). The situation has changed since then as a result of the investment that we put into infrastructure and the refinement of systems and greater clarity. I quoted earlier Tim Reardon of the port of Dover, who said of hauliers:

“It is fair to say that they are likely to be ready…because”

the requirements that they have to fulfil

“have been set out very clearly for some time now.”

I am confident that the steps that we have already taken and the announcement that we are making today will help to ensure the free flow of trade.

Public Services

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Tuesday 28th April 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I would hope that all employers will make use of the willing hands available. I am not the most dextrous of Members of this House, but even I was able to help with the tattie howking when I was younger, so all willing hands can help in our fields at this time. On the question of quarantine and how we deal with international travel, it is important that we ensure that we depress the infection curve here, but of course we are keeping under review our approach towards international travellers.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab) [V]]

Hundreds of thousands of people working legally in the UK have no recourse to public funds, so stopping work means many have been left with no income at all. Will the Government lift the no recourse to public funds restriction for the duration of this crisis, to give those hard-working families a chance?

[Michael Gove]

This matter has been discussed at the Ministry with the implementation group and it is under review.

Preparations for Leaving the EU

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is right. As I mentioned earlier, some member states have been more generous than others. We respect the political constraints under which some Governments operate, but we want to work with them to guarantee the position of UK nationals.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

Ministers recognise that the key to the level of chaos at Dover after a no-deal Brexit is the number of non-compliant trucks arriving without customs documents. In June, HMRC estimated that number to be at least 20%, or 2,000 a day. What is HMRC’s current estimate?

[Michael Gove]

We are currently revising those estimates, and we hope to publish that revision. One of the key things is that the HMRC calculation of which companies will be ready depends on translating data it has on the amount of goods exported by value into data on the amount exported by volume, and as I am sure the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, that is not an easy calculation to robustly underpin.

Brexit Readiness: Operation Yellowhammer

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend makes two very good points. I understand that, in the political to and fro, people do not always look at the detail in every document, but she is right that it is important for all of us that we do not turn a sliver of a leak into an exaggeration. We face undoubted challenges in leaving the European Union, but one area where the greatest amount of mitigation has been taking place is in making sure that we can continue to provide all our constituents and the NHS with the drugs and medical supplies they need to maintain good health.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

As the Minister knows, the Freight Transport Association says that long delays at Dover are inevitable after a no deal because hundreds of non-compliant trucks will continue to arrive. Those trucks will have lengthy inspections in a lorry park in Calais that has only 300 spaces. When the lorry park is full, the ferries will stop. On what grounds does he reject that assessment?

[Michael Gove]

I do not. The Freight Transport Association, the Road Haulage Association and other organisations have been invaluable in making sure that the Government can take steps to communicate with individual hauliers, companies and traders about the steps they might need to take to obviate those risks. If traders ensure their goods have the appropriate transit accompanying documents or movement reference number barcode, they will smooth their passage through Calais without needing to go into any car park at all.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Tuesday 31st January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

I am pleased to be following the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), who set out an erudite constitutional perspective for our edification. Of course, there are wholly honourable reasons for wanting to leave the European Union. The problem, however, is that we will pay a heavy economic price for leaving. Too many jobs will be forced out of the UK, and for that reason I shall oppose the Bill at the vote on Second Reading tomorrow.

[Michael Gove]

The right hon. Gentleman’s prediction that jobs will be lost follows the prediction made by so many that staying outside the single currency would lead to economic decline, and indeed that the vote on 23 June would trigger an instant recession. Those predictions were wrong then; with respect to his integrity, why should we believe these predictions now?

[Stephen Timms]

It is absolutely clear that there will be a heavy economic price. Within a couple of years, that will be absolutely clear. My view is that if we in this House believe that a measure is contrary to the national interest, we should vote against it. We have heard a couple of speeches from Conservative Members who have said in terms that they think that the Bill is contrary to the national interest. If that is the view of Members of this House, we should vote against the Bill.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Tuesday 8th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

T5. It surely cannot only be Opposition Members who are dismayed that, to quote the Lord Chief Justice again: “Our system of justice has become unaffordable to most.”Has the Secretary of State discussed this dreadful situation with the Lord Chief Justice, and is there a plan to do something about it?

[Michael Gove]

I have discussed this issue with the Lord Chief Justice, the Master of the Rolls and other members of the senior judiciary. It is a complex matter. One of the key things that is problematic is the level of costs in the justice system, and we need to bring about reform, particularly to the civil justice system. That is why the report by Michael Briggs, which lays out particular reforms, including more justice being transacted online, is a powerful way forward, but much remains to be done.

Building Schools for the Future

Debate between Michael Gove and Stephen Timms

Monday 14th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend asks a series of questions, but I must resist the temptation that he extends to me. We all know that the scheme had to be reformed. Those who embarked on Building Schools for the Future did so for the best and most idealistic of reasons. Those who made promises immediately before the last election, which no Government could honour, must look to their own consciences.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State has assured us that he will keep an open mind in receiving representations from the six authorities, including Newham. I ask him to take a close look at the cases of Plashet school and Little Ilford school, whose pupils made a DVD to show him the state of their buildings. Renewal now would avoid continuous costly patching up. Should it not be allowed to go forward?

[Michael Gove]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a good case. I have had the opportunity to visit schools in his constituency and I appreciate the challenges that teachers face there. One reason why these six local authorities brought the case was that they were among the closest to the finishing line when the line was drawn. By definition, wherever the line was drawn, those closest to it would have felt the most acute sense of injustice; also by definition, those closest to it would have been among the most needy. Wherever the line was drawn, there would have been a feeling of grievance. I understand the feeling of grievance in Newham and I take on board the points made by the right hon. Gentleman and others.