Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 16th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

So sit down, and we will move on.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

For all the sound and fury from the Secretary of State, he knows that the maths does not lie and that the Government have failed on their targets. They have downgraded their affordable housing targets, and have still failed on those. When will the Secretary of State bite the bullet and provide more properly affordable social housing for people in my constituency and others who simply cannot afford to buy their own homes?

[Michael Gove]

I withdraw the word “gangster”, Mr Speaker; I should have said “huckster”.

I will tell the hon. Lady who has downgraded their social housing targets: it is the hon. Lady herself. When she was running for the deputy leadership of her party, she said that she wanted 100,000 new social homes every year. What is the target now? Zero.

Birmingham City Council

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome the appointment of Max Caller, who has a strong track record of making these difficult decisions and helping councils to turn around, but the Secretary of State will know that task and finish was a big part of what happened in Birmingham. Does he have oversight of which other councils are still doing that? Nearly 30 years ago, at Islington Council, we were looking at those issues and tackling them.

The big issue here—the elephant in the room—is local audit. Some 12% of audit opinions for the 2021-22 financial year have come in, even with the extended deadline. The permanent secretary and the National Audit Office have indicated that we need to focus on the current year and to forget previous years, but these canaries in the mine, these warning signs, were never heard because of the dire state of local audit. This has all been on his Government’s watch. Can he give us any reassurance that he really has a plan to get local audit back on track?

[Michael Gove]

First, I thank the hon. Lady for her kind words about Max Caller. He is a first-class professional, and I know he will do an excellent job with the other commissioners. Secondly, I think it is fair to say—I do not want to make a party political point—that the local audit situation requires both investment and leadership. One of the first things I sought to do when I arrived in the Department was to ensure that the Office for Local Government can play a system leadership role in helping to reform and improve that process. I completely agree with the hon. Lady on that.

The hon. Lady’s central point was about task and finish, which some Members may think sounds like a good thing. A task and finish group is a team that sets out to resolve a problem and dissolves itself when the problem is finished. It seems to be the model of what we should have in administration: not a permanent bureaucracy, but a taskforce. However, task and finish in Birmingham, and indeed in some other local authorities, has basically meant the binmen—the scaffies, as we would say in Scotland—knocking off early as soon as they had claimed that they had finished their task and yet claiming for their full working day. Again, it is not an effective way to run any public service.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 20th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising the plight of his constituents, but the action we have already taken will ensure not only that the ultimate owners of those buildings—whether that is the developers or the freeholders—are responsible for remediation, but that those leaseholders who are currently trapped and unable to move will be able to do so and to secure a mortgage on their property if required.

[Dame Meg Hillier]

I declare an interest: I live in a block with cladding. There are many real concerns, and I commend the Secretary of State for some of the progress he has begun to make, but there is still a big issue with insurance premiums that are way too high for the risk involved. Will he update the House on what progress he has made with the insurance industry to get premiums down?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. Not only have insurance premiums been too high, but some of the middle people involved have been gouging at the expense of leaseholders. We have made it clear that there are responsibilities on the Association of British Insurers and others to change their ways. The Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Lee Rowley), is responsible for local government and engaged in work to make progress on that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Gove]

I say, “Vote Conservative,” because with a Conservative MP such as my hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Simon Jupp), you have an effective advocate who can work with central Government in order to deliver.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

More people rent privately in my constituency than own their own homes, and more people rent socially than both of those groups combined. When I visit those people, week in and week out, they are massively overcrowded with no prospect of renting in the private sector or buying. What is the Secretary of State doing to deliver properly affordable social rented housing?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Lady’s point is very similar to that made earlier by the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi), and my answer is also very similar: we need to work with the Mayor of London, who has clear responsibilities in this area. Once again, I am not criticising him, but I am stressing that the delivery of so much of the funding required to improve housing in the capital depends on effective action by the Mayor.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Thursday 11th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The joint biosecurity centre is a very welcome addition to the armoury of weapons that the UK Government have in fighting this infection. It is the case that, for the JBC to work effectively, it needs to work across the whole United Kingdom. I can confirm that devolved Administration chief medical officers and Health Ministers have been working very successfully with the Secretary of State for Health in order to ensure that information can be shared in a way that benefits us all.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

We know that test, track and trace has been slow to get to where it is, but we are glad it has started. However, the key thing, whatever happens centrally, is local tracking and tracing. Hackney Council is a pioneer borough, and we are really pleased that that is the case, but what is critical is that we are not getting the data that will help us track people. For example—forgive the long question, Mr Speaker—if an individual is tracked as having been close to someone who has tested positive, all Hackney gets is the information that they live in the borough of Hackney. That is not enough to act on. When will boroughs get that detailed localised information from central track and trace so that they can act and help attack this virus?

[Michael Gove]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for raising that point. I will be talking to the team who are operating the JBC later today, and I will raise that specific point with them. I am really grateful to her for raising it with me.

European Union (Withdrawal) Act

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Thursday 10th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I very much take on board my right hon. Friend’s point. As I will explain in greater detail in my remarks, I think we are in a far stronger position than many allow. The £39 billion that we will be giving to the EU is in part settlement of our obligations and in part a way of ensuring we have a transition period so that we can adjust to life outside the EU. The backstop that has been negotiated—let us all remember that originally the EU wanted a Northern Ireland-only backstop, but we now have a UK-wide backstop—allows us, as a sovereign nation, freedom in critical areas. These are freedoms that honour the referendum result and create real difficulties for European countries, which I will explore in greater detail in a moment.

It is critical that we recognise that the agreement the Prime Minister has negotiated will mean that we will be outside the direct jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, outside the common fisheries policy, outside the common agricultural policy, outside the common foreign and security policy and outside the principle of ever closer union, and that we will have control of our borders and our money. The days of automatic direct debits from this country, at whatever level people might think appropriate, will end, and as a result the referendum verdict will be honoured.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Earlier, the Secretary of State said that the deal laid out by the Prime Minister was a good deal for everybody in the UK. Can he seriously stand at that Dispatch Box and say that our friends in Northern Ireland are getting a good deal out of this deal?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Last week the Public Accounts Committee published a report on the criminal justice system. One of our conclusions was:

“The criminal justice system is not good enough at supporting victims and witnesses.”

We also cited the fact that only 55% of witnesses, many of whom are of course victims as well, say that they would go through the process again. Does the Secretary of State agree with our conclusion?

[Michael Gove]

Yes, I do. It has sometimes been the habit in the past for people to be greeted with a report from the National Audit Office or the Public Accounts Committee and attempt to suggest that it is an exercise in—well, there have been criticisms in the past. I certainly do not criticise the PAC or the NAO. The report is a welcome wake-up call. My right hon. Friend the victims Minister will bring forward a Green Paper with details on how we can better help victims and witnesses, but there is much that we need to do to improve the criminal justice system, and our judiciary get it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Tuesday 26th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Few know more about what happens in our courts than he does as a result of his work as a barrister. Yes, it is important to put an emphasis on rehabilitation, but it is also important that we give all our citizens the security of knowing that those people who pose a real threat to us are incapacitated behind bars and receiving the punishment they deserve for the most heinous crimes.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Last week the Public Accounts Committee heard from the chief executive of the Infrastructure and Projects Authority. He was asked what three projects kept him awake and worried him most, and the courts programme was one of them. We can add that to the list: to the tagging and translation services fiascos, and the concern that has been expressed about the big probation and prison programmes. Does the Secretary of State fear that his Department cannot cope with all this change?

[Michael Gove]

I look forward to having a cup of cocoa with the gentleman concerned to help him sleep more easily at night, as I manage to do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Tuesday 8th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

The National Audit Office, the Public Accounts Committee and the Select Committee on Justice have been critical of the Government’s lack of understanding of the knock-on costs of their reforms to legal aid. Is it not now time that the Government reviewed them to ensure that cost shunting does not happen and that effective justice is available to those who need it?

[Michael Gove]

Let me take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. Lady on her election as Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee. I know she will do that job brilliantly. She is absolutely right: changes to legal aid touch on the very heart of the principles of equal access to justice that we all hold dear. That is why I have been in intense talks with representatives from both the Bar and the solicitors’ profession in order to ensure that we can maintain access to justice and enhance the quality of advocacy in our courts.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 24th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I absolutely will.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Earlier the children Minister talked about the increase in places at school nurseries. Is she aware of the challenge that faces many working parents who cannot secure more than the 15 hours a week they are guaranteed and cannot buy extra hours in a school nursery, which reduces the choices for working parents?

PISA Results

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Tuesday 3rd December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

If Hackney schools’ results were extrapolated nationally, we would be about third in the international league tables. That is a direct result of inspired Labour local political leadership, collaboration between excellent head teachers, and the right sort of Government support. What is the Secretary of State doing to make sure that such collaboration is nationalised—to use his word—so that children of all abilities and backgrounds across the country are achieving as they are in Hackney, where the poorest children are progressing as well as the richest?

[Michael Gove]

I have often had the opportunity in the past to draw attention to how well Hackney performs and, indeed, how effectively Hackney is represented in this House by its two MPs when it comes to educational matters. As both the hon. Lady and her parliamentary neighbour acknowledge, it is an emphasis on academic excellence and, indeed, the growth in academy schools that has driven Hackney’s improvement. It is really important that she keeps her Front-Bench colleagues honest by making sure that they back academic excellence and the spread of academisation.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 24th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is right. That is why I am so pleased that Lord Nash and Sir Michael Wilshaw are working together to raise the quality of school governance.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds), both the think-tank Reform and the Treasury have raised questions about the efficacy and value for money of teaching assistants. Will the Secretary of State give his view?

[Michael Gove]

I respect teaching assistants. I am also very interested in what Reform has to say, but above all I obey what the Treasury tells me.

GCSEs

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Tuesday 11th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend puts her finger on a really important issue. One thing that I am anxious to do is to secure, with the help of the regulator, a proper understanding that can help us to encourage those responsible for qualifications in Wales to recognise which changes are appropriate and which are not.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

As the Secretary of State knows, we have some of the best secondary schools in the country in Hackney, where rigour is very important. As the Secretary of State’s approach to education policy seems to be that it is in one day, out the next—he is playing hokey cokey—can he assure head teachers, parents and pupils in my area and around the country that there will not be a lot more changes down the path?

[Michael Gove]

A clear direction of travel has, I hope, been set today and we will of course consult and listen, but the hon. Lady is absolutely right. In Hackney, a high level of ambition has been embedded for years, and I know there are head teachers and teachers in Hackney who welcome the direction we have set today.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 4th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

A Minister will certainly meet my hon. Friend.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

First, we had the pile ’em high, teach ’em cheap approach to child care and in the Children and Families Bill, there is a move towards agencies, but there has still been no unveiling of the supposed policy on tax breaks for working parents. Will the Secretary of State let us know when that is coming and whether it will replace the tax credits that parents already get?

[Michael Gove]

All tax issues are a matter for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. His policies are always right and should always be announced when he wishes to announce them and not, however beseeching the hon. Lady’s questions are, when she wants them to be announced.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 29th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

16. What assessment he has made of the 2012 GCSE English results; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)]

On 18 October, provisional national and local authority level GCSE results for 2012 were published. The percentage of pupils achieving grades A* to C in English had fallen by three percentage points to 66.2%. The independent regulator, Ofqual, continues its investigation into the awarding of English GCSEs this year, and is now looking into why some schools achieved the results that they had expected while others did not. The final report will be published shortly.

[Michael Gove]

I share the concern felt by the hon. Gentlemen. We must wait to see the Ofqual report before we can be more certain about what went wrong this year, but it is clear that there were a variety of factors consequent on the design of the examination, and that we need to take steps to remedy them.

[Meg Hillier]

In Hackney, 103 pupils received D grades in English in June. In some cases, classmates at the same schools achieved lower scores in January, and received C grades. In each of the five schools affected in Hackney, at least 85% of ethnic minority pupils received Ds rather than Cs. The Secretary of State talked about looking into why some schools had achieved less than others. Will he look into this very serious matter as well?

[Michael Gove]

I certainly shall. Hackney has an exemplary record of educational improvement, and when there are inconsistencies such as this, we must look at the evidence to work out what has happened.

Exam Reform

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 17th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. One of the things that I am delighted by is that, under the leadership shown by the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, the number of apprenticeships has increased. In addition, thanks to the work put in place by the former skills Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), we have seen a growth in the number of university technical colleges and studio schools. The Wolf report, which has also been referred to, has set us on a path where we can ensure that high-quality vocational qualifications are offered to all students who believe that that is the right course for them.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Under the Secretary of State’s proposals, it seems that the experimental generation who will have gained qualifications in 2016 will have either two different qualifications or none. I am not clear—perhaps the Secretary of State could provide an answer—as to whether there will be an age cap on achieving the English baccalaureate. What happens to those who do not get that grade?

[Michael Gove]

I see no age cap, and I stress that one of the things that has been very encouraging during the course of today is that a number of schools have suggested that they would like to pilot this qualification even earlier than the planned start date. I hope that we can build up a degree of consensus behind exactly what it is that we propose to introduce and that the schools that are enthusiastic about it are able to make sure that students who do not get a good pass at 16 have the chance to do so at 17 or 18.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 3rd September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The rules have changed and we will make it easier for head teachers to deal with underperforming staff. In the most extreme cases, that means that the underperforming staff will have to go. I want to ensure that head teachers are given the resources and time to ensure that underperforming staff can improve, because we all know that every child deserves to have a high-quality teacher for every moment in class.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

As one of the MPs representing Hackney, which 10 years ago was one of the worst performing boroughs in education, I want to draw the Secretary of State’s attention to our excellent exam results, with more than 60% of pupils getting five A to C grades at GCSE, including maths and English. Mossbourne community academy gained a result of 89%, which is exceptionally good. However, within that there were real challenges for pupils sitting the English exam. At BSix college, for example, for the previous three years, 83%, 86% and 83% of pupils respectively gained a C or above, but only 36% did so this year—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are extremely grateful. We need short questions in topicals.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 16th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The council tax payers of Newcastle have already paid in the past for the failure of that local authority to raise standards in schools to a level seen in other local authorities, including Gateshead, for example. It is critical that we raise standards in Newcastle and we will do so by welcoming new educational providers, including those who propose free schools. We will certainly do so by tackling underperformance at primary level. For far too long, the last Government tolerated primary schools that were generating children who left at the age of 11 incapable of reading, writing and adding up properly. I have no tolerance for that sort of nonsense, which is why we are acting now.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

T7. In the constituencies of Newcastle upon Tyne Central and Hackney South and Shoreditch, and in many other constituencies up and down the country, applications have been put in for free schools—bids for taxpayers’ money with which to run a school for children. When will the Secretary of State publish the financial plans that those schools have submitted, or will he continue with the secrecy of the Department, which does not publish the plans until the schools are open?

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for asking her question, and particularly grateful for the warm welcome that she showed me when I recently went to her constituency to visit the school of which your chaplain, Mr Speaker, is such an effective chairman of governors. All funding agreements for all free schools are published on the Department for Education website. Further information will be made available as funding agreements and other contracts are entered into.

New Schools

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Monday 10th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

We hope that all maintained schools will abide by a new admissions code, which is explicitly designed to make it easier for schools to manage in-year admissions and for service children to secure admission to the school of their parents’ choice.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Of the six secondary schools in my constituency, three have been built new and three rebuilt, thanks to the Labour Government, so I am pleased that the Secretary of State and the Government have agreed to a proposed new 800-place academy near Victoria park in my constituency. It has the benefit of being sponsored by Mossbourne academy, which has a strong track record. In his haste, how will he ensure that other new academies meet the same high standards that all Members across the House would like to see?

[Michael Gove]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady. I know she has returned to the Back Benches, so may I say on a personal note that I thought she was a distinguished member of the shadow Cabinet and that she has fought amazingly hard for her constituency? Her question absolutely gets to the nub of it. I am delighted that we are supporting the new Victoria Park academy and that it is linked with Mossbourne academy. I will continue to work with the Learning Trust in Hackney and will ask the new chief inspector, whoever he or she may be, to keep a special eye on that borough. I am sure that he or she, whoever they may be, will join me and ensure that it is at the top of their agenda.

Education and Health

Debate between Michael Gove and Meg Hillier

Wednesday 2nd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I could not agree more. School transport is covered by the revenue support grant in almost all circumstances and has not been affected. With respect to special educational needs, we are ensuring that the commitment is there to fund the services that our most vulnerable children need.

What I would say to all hon. Gentlemen on the Labour Benches—[Interruption]—and hon. Ladies too—is that in their requests for more spending, however passionately constructed, they should remember one thing. Who were the Government until just a few weeks ago? Who was responsible for the financial situation that we inherited? Who was responsible for writing a letter to the Treasury saying, “There is no money”? None of us in this House wants to see front-line spending on our schools reduced, but none of us on the Government Benches would have wanted the public finances to be reduced to the state that we inherited after the election. As the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) put it, in a rare moment of candour when he left the Treasury, there is no money left. In fact, as the markets are all too aware, there is less than no money left. We are currently spending £163 billion every year more than we take in taxes—

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Michael Gove]

And that is thanks to the financial mismanagement of the hon. Lady’s Government.

[Meg Hillier]

In the right hon. Gentleman’s desire to be sensible about money, which we would all want to see, will he think about the extended schools programme? What connections is he making with other Departments? That extension to school hours really helps working parents, and working parents help to tackle child poverty. That should be at the centre of his agenda, and I hope that it is.

[Michael Gove]

I pay tribute to the hon. Lady’s commitment to fighting child poverty, both in her role as a Minister and also, previously, as a member of the Greater London assembly. She will be aware that my Department is working with the Department for Work and Pensions and the Department for Communities and Local Government to carry forward the good work that is already in place as a result of the extension of hours, but it is critical to recognise that everything that is happening in and around our schools to support young people is taking place against a backdrop of dire economic news. That backdrop is one that she played a part in constructing when she was a member of the Government who left us with the desperate economic situation in which we find ourselves. Our debt is growing at a rate of more than £300,000 per minute. That money could have been spent on the front line—on our schools, on teachers and on teaching assistants—but it is not being spent in that way, thanks to the profligacy and inefficiency of the Labour Government.