Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Monday 4th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We are concentrating on ensuring we can level up the north and the midlands, but we also need to recognise that levelling up encompasses making sure that those in rural areas, who contribute so much to the life of our nation, are supported through the challenges that the cost of living crisis has generated.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the Minister advise me how many people took up the offer of the former help to buy ISA scheme? Has another such scheme been considered to allow young people to get on the seemingly impossible first rung of the property ladder?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Monday 22nd January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Come on, Jim.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the Minister commit to further levelling-up funding for the devolved institutions for local sports clubs across Northern Ireland, instead of funding Casement Park to the detriment of every other sport looking for funding in Northern Ireland, so that all traditions and all sides of the community can benefit from the funding?

[Michael Gove]

I take the hon. Gentleman’s point seriously. It is important that we support grassroots sport and other civil society organisations in Northern Ireland. We are working hard to try to ensure that we can do that with our partners in a restored Executive. In the meantime, I should say that I am grateful to Ulster rugby for ending its relationship with Kingspan, which means that we can unlock additional funding for grassroots rugby across Northern Ireland.

Renters (Reform) Bill

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

2nd reading
Monday 23rd October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

rose—

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

rose—

[Michael Gove]

I will not give way at this stage; I will make a wee bit of progress, then I hope to give way shortly.

I want to emphasise that a healthy private rented sector is in all our interests. Making sure that both landlords and tenants have a new deal and a fair deal is critical.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

rose—

[Jim Shannon]

rose—

[Michael Gove]

I am happy to give way to the hon. Member for Strangford.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister is right to say that the encouragement of private landlords is important to ensure that rental properties are available, but it is also incredibly important that unscrupulous landlords are not facilitated in avoiding their obligations. In relation to the obligations, Citizens Advice has recently announced some figures, which show that 48% of evicted tenants have been told that their landlord wanted to sell. This is a common reason for ending a tenancy. With respect, nothing in this legislation suggests that landlords must give evidence that they have followed through on their intention to sell. Will the Minister rectify that?

[Michael Gove]

Of course, landlords and any property owner must have the right to sell their home if they need or wish to do so; nothing should interfere with that. None the less, it is the case that there may be circumstances in which there will be some landlords who use an attempt to sell, or a claim to sell, as a feint in order to evict a tenant. In Committee, we will explain how we will ensure that, in those circumstances, the situation is effectively dealt with.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Monday 10th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

To strengthen the Union, and with the Windsor framework not able to answer all the difficulties due to the Northern Ireland protocol, what recent discussions have taken place with Cabinet colleagues on pressing the EU for a common-sense approach and on making the necessary adjustments to keep Northern Ireland a functional and integral part of the UK, which is the will of the people?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that it is the clearly expressed will of Northern Ireland’s people to be embedded in the United Kingdom, and we need to make sure that the EU takes a constructive approach, following on from the publication of the Windsor framework. My right hon. Friends the Foreign Secretary and the Northern Ireland Secretary are taking that forward.

Economic Activity of Public Bodies (Overseas Matters) Bill

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

2nd reading
Monday 3rd July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

British policy is, as my hon. Friend knows, to promote a two-state solution. I know that he has a long, passionate and committed interest in this subject and I respect the compassion and knowledge that he brings to the debate but, respectfully, I disagree with him. I believe that a two-state solution is the right approach, which the BDS movement does not believe.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I very much welcome the legislation that the Secretary of State is introducing, and we as a party will support it when the time comes tonight. There are many examples in Northern Ireland of councils having overstepped the mark by boycotting goods from Israel and penalising and focusing attention on the small Jewish community. Local authorities should be working hard to support diversity and good relations, not ridiculing and condemning our small and minority communities. It is clear to me that the point of the legislation is to make sure that that does not happen, so let us make sure that it goes through tonight.

[Michael Gove]

I agree, as I do almost always, with every word that the hon. Gentleman said.

Building Safety

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Monday 30th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to stress that it is not just cladding and buildings over 18 metres; there are other fire safety issues. It will be the responsibility of developers or, where appropriate, freeholders, to address those under the waterfall system that we have put in place through the Building Safety Act 2022.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State very much for his statement. Building safety is vital for all parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Further to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), may I request a timescale for communications between the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland, which has responsibility for this? One thing to consider in all this is that we in Northern Ireland deserve the same safety as residents here on the United Kingdom mainland.

[Michael Gove]

I could not agree more. I will ask Sue Gray, the second permanent secretary at my Department, to be in touch with the Department for Communities this week. I will write to the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) with an update on the progress that we expect to make.

May I apologise to the House for referring to the Queen’s Speech, when I should, of course, have referred to the King’s Speech?

Called-in Planning Decision: West Cumbria

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Thursday 8th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for making her point. Again, the inspector makes clear that, whether we use coking coal from the UK or elsewhere, there will automatically be emissions. However, taking every piece of evidence in the round, given the continued reliance upon coking coal—the inspector makes clear that that is likely for decades to come—it is better that it comes from this mine rather than from other sources abroad.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State very much for his comprehensive and detailed statement. Can he confirm, and is he satisfied, that all steps will be taken and have been taken to protect the surrounding environment, that health and safety will also be paramount, and that local people living nearby have been closely and fully consulted?

[Michael Gove]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making all those points. On one level I am sorry to keep returning to the inspector’s report, but it is important to return to it, and it deals with all those issues and more. I will use the opportunity of the hon. Gentleman’s question to say to the House and to other interested parties that of course I have sought to answer every question put to me as fully as possible, with reference to the inspector’s report, but nothing I have said in this Chamber in response to questions should be taken account of without also taking account of all the arguments in the inspector’s report and my decision letter. I am grateful to so many colleagues for taking this important issue seriously, and I urge all interested parties to read the full inspector’s report in order to understand the arguments that were put to him and that he eventually judged.

Social Housing (Regulation) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

2nd reading
Monday 7th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes the fair point that there are lots of pressures on registered social landlords and housing associations. The Bill is there to ensure that all emulate the best, but I appreciate that with pressures to increase supply, pressures on building safety and pressures to deal with the poor-quality stock that many have inherited, we need to be sensitive. I am sure that the regulator will be, in the application of any fines, if the correct action is not being taken.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State and welcome him back to his position; I look forward to his significant contribution to this issue. Obviously it is good for lessons to be learned, but it is also good to share them. Northern Ireland does not have the same number of high-rise apartment blocks as London or elsewhere across the United Kingdom, but we have some—Housing Executive, housing association and some private. Has the Secretary of State on his return been able to share the information about better safety with all the regions, particularly Northern Ireland?

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that. This legislation applies to housing associations and social landlords in England, of course, but in my other role as Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, I have talked to Ministers and officials in the devolved Administrations about some of these building safety questions. We all have a shared interest in getting those right. Of course we respect the nature of devolved competence, but we also want to make sure that some of the insights, particularly about how we deal with developers, can be operationalised UK-wide.

[Michael Gove]

I certainly would. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that housing associations and other social landlords have to take safety incredibly seriously. This legislation is intended to ensure that they do. If housing associations or other social landlords are not taking safety, and particularly fire safety, seriously, I would be most grateful if he and others would share such information with me. He has been a uniquely assiduous constituency MP and his concern for the vulnerable and voiceless is such that he will raise his voice on their behalf. We will do everything we can to act.

Before going on to the meat of the Bill, I should say that, as a number of Members have rightly pointed out, a range of issues need to be tackled in the wake of the Grenfell tragedy. As well as legislating on building safety, we need to make sure that there is action, particularly from some of those with direct responsibility for fixing the problems that they helped to create. I am grateful to the two Secretaries of State who succeeded and preceded me here, my right hon. Friends the Members for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) and for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Mr Clarke). In office, both accelerated the efforts we were undertaking to ensure that developers who were responsible for buildings that were not safe accept the responsibility for remediating those buildings.

There have been some indications from some speaking apparently on behalf of developers that, because of the global economic headwinds we are all facing—there may be an impact on supply; there may be an impact on their bottom line—they feel that the weight of obligation that has been placed on their shoulders should perhaps be lessened somewhat. Let me make clear from the Dispatch Box that it cannot be the case that economic conditions, which affect us all, are being used by developers, or anyone else, to shuffle off their obligations.

Similarly, there are freeholders who have direct responsibility to the leaseholders in the buildings they ultimately own to remediate those buildings—that is their legal obligation. This Parliament passed laws to ensure that they fulfil that obligation. There are some freeholders—organisations of significant means—that are, again, trying to delay or dilute their responsibilities. That is simply not acceptable. I hope that across the House we make it clear that, yes, these are tough economic times, but they are very tough economic times for the most vulnerable in our society, and there is no way that plcs and other organisations with healthy balance sheets and surpluses, and CEOs who are earning handsome remuneration, can somehow use global economic conditions as an excuse for shuffling off their responsibility. That just will not do. All of us across the House will work to ensure that the work of remediation is done and that there will be no hiding place for those responsible.

In bringing forward the Bill, I want to thank, first of all, all colleagues in the other place who contributed to improving it while it was there. I am sure that in Committee there may well be amendments from Back-Bench colleagues across the House that can contribute to improving it. My colleagues in the other place were grateful to those noble colleagues who contributed to the enhancement of the Bill. In particular, I want to thank Lord Greenhalgh, who, as building safety and fire safety Minister, introduced the Bill and served with such distinction in the Department.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North for all the work he did, and not just on this Bill but on legislation on the private rented sector and on homelessness. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick) for his work, when Secretary of State, on the White Paper that preceded the Bill. In particular, I also want to thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May). Her actions in the immediate aftermath of the Grenfell tragedy, along with the moral leadership she has shown, set in train a programme of reform to ensure that those in social housing got the full attention of the Government. That has ensured the Bill is before us today.

I also want to thank two campaigners who, in the course of the last year, have shone a light on some of the worst conditions in social housing, and have reminded us all how important it is to ensure that our regulator has teeth. First, Kwajo Tweneboa is a young man who I think all of us in this House have seen campaigning with eloquence and passion. Having grown up in social housing, he has acted as a voice for those who may have been overlooked and underserved in the past. Secondly, Daniel Hewitt for ITV News has worked with Kwajo and others to ensure that registered social landlords who have not been performing their duties adequately are held up to proper scrutiny.

It is of course important to acknowledge that there are a number of different aspects of the social housing debate that the Bill does not cover. It does not cover the whole question of future supply. We will have an opportunity to debate that in this House in the weeks and months to come. It is also important to stress that the overwhelming majority of those who work in social housing are doing a fantastic job. The overwhelming majority of those who work in housing associations and in all the arm’s length management organisations that help to provide social housing are dedicated professionals. They have nothing to fear from the Bill and, indeed, everything to gain. It is the case, however, that some 13% of homes in the social rented sector do not meet the decent homes standard, and that is simply too high a figure. We need to make sure action is taken to deal with that. I should say, by contrast, that the proportion of homes in the private rented sector estimated not to meet that standard is 21%, which is why legislation to improve conditions in the private sector is so important and, again, the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North and others has been so critical.

A series of steps are taken in the Bill to ensure that we can more effectively regulate the sector. First, the Bill makes sure that what has been called the serious detriment test no longer applies. In the past, a very high bar had to be met before the regulator could investigate complaints. We are removing that test, lowering the bar and making it easier for tenants to feel that their concerns are being investigated.

The second significant measure is that we are ensuring that the cap on fines under which the regulator hitherto operated—just £5,000—is lifted so that unlimited fines can be levied. I know that the regulator will take account of the comments made by the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter) and others to ensure that fines are targeted and proportionate, but the potential for the regulator to levy unlimited fines will concentrate minds as few other things will for some of the significant players in the sector that need to up their game.

We will also shorten to two days the period of time for inspections, which was hitherto four weeks, to ensure that tenants who have concerns can feel that they are being addressed more quickly. We will require performance improvement plans from housing associations and others that are found wanting. Critically, safety will become a fundamental objective for registered social landlords and a named individual in each RSL will be responsible for health and safety, thereby making sure there is clearer accountability where it has been fudged in the past.

Thanks to amendments tabled in the House of Lords, we are introducing a new standard for competence for people who work in the field. There has been a lively and important debate about the need for higher professional standards in housing. I completely agree; evidence from what happened in the run-up to Grenfell showed that some of those who were responsible for safeguarding and improving social housing did not have the basic standards of professionalism that are required.

We need to proceed with sensitivity, because the standard of qualification and degree of professional training required for someone at the heart of a major registered social landlord may of course be different from that for someone who is operating a small alms house or other charity provider, but there is a clear need for greater professionalisation. We will work with colleagues to ensure that we have fit-for-purpose legislation.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Secretary of State for his comprehensive speech. It has become apparent from things we read in the paper and from television programmes that some of the councils responsible for enforcement in respect of safety in properties are finding themselves financially stretched to deal with the massive issues that come their way. Does the Bill provide some help, whether by financial or other means, to ensure that councils can deal with the enormous issues that they have to deal with? I can understand why they are sometimes overwhelmed.

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Indeed, local authorities have in the past been found wanting when it comes to building control. The most recent spending review included significant additional sums for local government, but we are all aware that inflation and other pressures are putting considerable strain on local government finances. It is my commitment to work with local government, particularly in England but, of course, throughout the United Kingdom, to make sure that the most vital statutory functions can be well funded. I will of course work with the Northern Ireland Local Government Association and others to make sure that we can provide the support that is required.

The legislation will make sure that the voice of tenants is more effectively placed at the heart of regulation and policy making overall. The establishment of an advisory panel will draw widely to ensure that the regulator and the Department understand the concerns of social tenants. Indeed, the regulator will be in the vanguard of a greater level of transparency in respect of the level of service provided by individual social landlords.

Legislation on its own can achieve a lot but not everything, and I am conscious that my Department has a responsibility, as Grenfell United and others have pointed out, to make sure that there is wider awareness of the power, and path, for complaints. I am glad that there has been greater awareness of the way in which complaints can be made, that those complaints are being acted on more quickly, and that registered social landlords such as Clarion, which have been on the receiving end of complaints, have responded more quickly. My Department has been responsible for making sure that there is a wider awareness of how to deal sensitively with examples of anti-social behaviour. It continues to work with local government and with registered social landlords—alongside the work of the ombudsman—to ensure that there is a better appreciation of what tenants require.

The legislation was originally conceived of, generated and brought forward by my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead as one of a number of measures to ensure that we do right by the bereaved, the survivors and the relatives of those in the Grenfell tragedy, but there is still much to do. I am very conscious that more than five years on from that tragedy, work is still in progress and we need to expedite it, but I know that the inquiry, which formally concludes this week, will be in a position—thanks to the testimony of so many brave people—to hold us and future Governments to account.

Across the House, the spirit in which we will take the legislation forward and examine it in Committee will be one of commitment to honour the memory of those who lost their lives and of a determination to ensure, “Never again”.

Social Housing and Building Safety

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Thursday 9th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. He has been, if I may say so, a consistently clear and authoritative voice on behalf of those who have found themselves in an incredibly difficult situation. The leaseholders he has described should not be in that position. There have been problems with the building safety fund—there absolutely have. Let me promise him that I will look at the specific case that he raises and, indeed, the wider issues and see what we can do to make sure that the building safety fund, which has not been discharging funds at the rate, at the pace and in the way that it should, does better.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The thoughts of myself and my party are with the families. It is hard to believe that it has been five years. Even these days, we still pray for the families who have suffered such pain and heartache.

It is quite clear that the Secretary of State is totally committed to making the changes that are necessary to ensure that this never happens again. May I ask him about sharing those changes and regulations with the other regions—the Northern Ireland Assembly, for instance? In particular, we have similar buildings in Belfast and Londonderry, and perhaps in Antrim as well, which are regulated or owned by our housing associations and councils. Is it his intention to share the recommendations with the other regions to ensure that we can all benefit from better safety?

[Michael Gove]

Yes, absolutely. The hon. Gentleman’s question gives me the opportunity to say thank you to Ministers and officials in all the devolved Administrations who have been working with my Department to learn some of the lessons about building safety. We have also been discussing how some of the progress that we have made at a UK Government level in getting money from developers in order to contribute to remediation can also apply in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. In particular, I thank Jayne Brady from the Northern Ireland civil service for the work that she has been doing with officials from my Department in this area. I know that the hon. Gentleman’s own party and others are committed to learning appropriate lessons.

I mentioned the importance of making sure that we had a fit-for-purpose new regime and that we took the appropriate steps necessary. One other person I would like to thank is Dame Judith Hackitt. The work that she did has ensured that we could pass the Building Safety Bill into law in order to make the Building Safety Act 2022 an effective framework for regulation. We have a new building safety regulator, led by a new chief inspector of buildings, which operates within the Health and Safety Executive. We will have a new national regulator for construction products and a new homes ombudsman to improve oversight and standards. We have new statutory duties placed on those carrying out design or building work to make sure that they have the relative competence for their roles, which means that building control will be a properly regulated profession and that all construction products marketed in the UK will be properly regulated in future. To follow on from the very good point made by the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), if products are unsafe, they can be withdrawn from the market. There are also strengthened provisions in the legislation to hold industry to account.

As well as the Building Safety Act, the Fire Safety Act came into force this year, and it implements in principle the first nine of the inquiry’s 15 phase 1 recommendations. Changes to regulations include the requirement that the owner and manager of every residential building, whether or not it is high rise, should be required by law to provide fire safety instructions, including instructions for evacuation. We have taken steps, as I mentioned earlier, to say to all developers that they must contribute to both remediating the buildings for which they were responsible and contributing to a fund to ensure that neither taxpayers nor leaseholders are held liable for problems that they did not create and for which they should not pay.

I should stress that, as well as introducing effective regulation, we have made it clear that many of the materials that are unsafe have been banned. It is the case that combustible materials on the external wall of any new residential building more than 18 metres high are banned, and there is a provision for sprinkler systems in all new blocks of flats that are higher than 11 metres.

We are making sure that we have the right regulatory system in place, that we get developers to pay and that the most dangerous materials are banned. All those steps are necessary, but they are not sufficient. We also need to make sure that those companies that have operated in a way that genuinely brings the system into disrepute know that we are coming after them. That is why, when it came to the particular case of Rydon Homes, one of the companies that was part of the group that was responsible for what happened in Grenfell Tower, I have been clear that they are suspended from any participation in the Government’s Help to Buy scheme. I have also been clear that Kingspan, one of the organisations responsible for the material that contributed to the fire, was a wholly inappropriate partner for Mercedes-Benz when it was suggested that it should somehow seek to launder its reputation by sponsoring Mercedes-Benz’s Formula 1 team. It is also the case that I will be taking steps to ensure that freeholders who at the moment are evading their responsibility to pay for and to contribute to remediation can be pursued. More will be announced by the Government in the days to come to make sure that we take all the steps necessary to deal with everyone who has responsibility in this matter.

I should also say that, as well as making sure that Government do everything they can to bring people to justice, when the inquiry concludes, the police and the Crown Prosecution Service, quite properly independent organisations, will be making their own decisions about whether criminal prosecution will be necessary. I know that that is an issue of profound concern to the community. I can assure them, having talked to both the police and the CPS, respecting, of course, their operational independence, that both have worked hard to ensure that the evidence is there for any action that they consider to be appropriate to be taken in due course.

As well as making sure that we learn the right lessons on building safety and get the new regime that tenants deserve, we also must ensure that the wider voice of social tenants everywhere is heard loud and clear. I thank the inspirational young campaigner Kwajo Tweneboa, who I know is in the House today, who has done so much working with ITV and others to draw attention to the continuing plight of social housing tenants. Kwajo’s work, and the work of so many other campaigners, has underlined and redrawn to our attention the fact that there are people who are living in our capital city today—five years after Grenfell—in circumstances that are beyond squalid and inadequate. It has been the case that some housing associations and some local authorities have been heedless and neglectful of their obligations, and the steps that we need to take are clear. That is why the Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North (Eddie Hughes), is bringing forward new legislation to give effect to the changes in social housing that are required.

Building Safety

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Monday 10th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. One of the things that we saw just before Christmas with the Kingspan-Mercedes deal is the way in which public pressure from the Grenfell community meant that a very big corporate—Mercedes—did the right thing. I am very grateful to Toto Wolff and his team for doing that. We need to use a variety of tools, and my hon. Friend is absolutely right that transparency is critical.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

May I convey my own and my party’s sincerest sympathies to the family of Jack Dromey at this time of great grief and sorrow? He made a significant contribution in Westminster Hall last Thursday, and he will be missed—I want to put that on the record.

I thank the Secretary of State for his statement and for his clear commitment to finding a solution for everyone in this process. It is clear to me that that is what he intends to do, but can the right hon. Gentleman outline what steps he is willing to put in place to ensure that the burden of the cost of replacing cladding is not on the tenants alone? Too many tenants of one-bedroom apartments are being asked to pay thousands of pounds towards this from low wages, while developers are sitting pretty. Will the Secretary of State liaise with the Chancellor to see what tax breaks could be offered to developers who do the right thing by their tenants?

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his points. He is right that there are people in small, one-bedroom flats who have been faced with huge costs, which are totally disproportionate and from which we need to relieve them.

Secondly, he makes an important point about being as supportive as possible of developers that do the right thing. A debate such as this will inevitably concentrate on those who need to take additional responsibility, but it is important to stress that many developers, housebuilders and people in the property sector have done the right thing, and we should applaud them for having done so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Thursday 8th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

No. This Government are committed to devolution. Like the Labour party and the Liberal Democrats, we believe in a United Kingdom that gets the best of both worlds: a strong Westminster Government working with strong devolved institutions. Of course, I recognise that, in the spirit of providing the Scottish people with a choice, the hon. Gentleman decided to leave the Scottish National party in order to set up, with Mr Salmond, the Alba party. One reason he did so is that he believed that the Scottish Government were doing a poor job, that they were not making the case effectively for independence and, indeed, that the way in which they were discharging their responsibilities actually corroded the case for independence. On the final point, the hon. Gentleman and I are as one.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster outline what collective approach has been taken by BEIS and the Cabinet Office to address some of the issues affecting small businesses with regard to the import of hundreds of products to Northern Ireland? I know that he has a particular interest in this issue. Businesses are being prevented from trading normally, as things were pre-31 December 2020; they are under stress and it has reduced their income. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster agree to grant funding for a loss of income, as business have been impacted through no fault of their own?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. As a result of the particular interpretation of the Northern Ireland protocol on which some in the European Commission have insisted, businesses in Strangford and elsewhere have faced additional costs. We have already devoted money through the trader support service and other means to support businesses, but I will talk to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the Treasury and Lord Frost to see what we can do to ensure that businesses in Strangford and elsewhere in Northern Ireland are not further disadvantaged.

EU Withdrawal Agreement

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

It is absolutely the case that the EU will be paying for it. I hope that while people from the EU’s agencies are in Northern Ireland, they will take advantage of Northern Ireland’s wonderful hospitality as well.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Democratic Unionist party has remained consistent that there must be no border down the Irish sea. Can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster give me an assurance that in 2021, the year we mark the centenary of the Union, the good people of Strangford will have no impediment placed on them by Brussels to buying foodstuffs from fellow British citizens in England, Scotland and Wales?

[Michael Gove]

Absolutely. The citizens of the beautiful Ards peninsula will continue to enjoy the rights that we uphold as shared UK citizens.

EU Exit: End of Transition Period

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. As the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has pointed out, as we move away from the common agricultural policy, we move to a system where farmers can be supported with public money to provide public goods—for example, increasing the organic content of their soil or contributing to better and cleaner management of our waters—and, as the recent trade deal secured by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade shows, we have improved access for our superb produce to new markets.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster for his statement. Last Friday, I had the opportunity to meet Gordons pharmacy in Newtownards. As a type 2 diabetic, I declare an interest. Many are saying that insulin and other medications will not be able to be sourced post-Brexit. Will the right hon. Gentleman tell me what progress has been made to ensure that the supply of medicines from the EU to the UK, and then from GB mainland to Northern Ireland, will continue after the transition period ends?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman raises a very important consideration, because of the operation of the Northern Ireland protocol. I was discussing yesterday with a Minister of State at the Department of Health and Social Care, and officials in the Northern Ireland Office and other Departments, how we can make sure that the supply of medical goods continues uninterrupted to Northern Ireland. He is quite right that one of the single most important is insulin, because of the particular requirements that diabetics like him, and indeed my father, faces.

European Union: Future Relationship

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Thursday 27th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

Absolutely. The Agriculture Bill, which was introduced by my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers) during her outstanding tenure as Environment Secretary and which is being carried forward by her successor, will ensure that farmers have a firm foundation on which to plan for the future. In all our trading relationships, we will make sure that there are appropriate protections for the environment and for animal welfare, to ensure that the peerless standards set by our farmers are used as a badge of excellence to enable them to do even better in the future.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Can the Secretary of State confirm that fishing fleets and fish processors in Portavogie in my constituency, Ardglass, Kilkeel and elsewhere will have the same rights as their fellow fleets and processors in Scotland, Wales and England, and that Northern Ireland will not be disadvantaged by the border down the Irish sea?

[Michael Gove]

There will be no border down the Irish sea, and the fishing fleets of Northern Ireland will enjoy all the rights that they deserve, similar—indeed, identical—to those of other fishermen, and fishers, throughout the United Kingdom.

Preparations for Leaving the European Union

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Monday 21st October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

We will be doing everything we can to ensure that there is unfettered access for goods from Northern Ireland into the rest of the United Kingdom. Deal or no deal, we will also be bringing forward additional steps to ensure that businesses in Northern Ireland are supported and protected come what may.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I have been contacted by Northern Ireland’s fishing sector, which does not want this Government deal, so can the Minister confirm that Northern Ireland’s fishing sector will have the same opportunities and freedom to fish as the fishing sectors of England, Scotland and Wales in the event of no deal?

[Michael Gove]

Yes, absolutely. One of the benefits of leaving the European Union is being outside the common fisheries policy, and I know that the fishing interests that the hon. Gentleman represents were and are looking forward to our leaving the European Union. Let me say again that it is the Government’s absolute intention to ensure that we provide all the financial and administrative support required by all of Northern Ireland’s businesses as we leave—whatever the circumstances. The whole enterprise of leaving the European Union is one that we took as one United Kingdom, and it is very important that we pay particular attention to representatives of Northern Ireland as we try to secure the best possible outcome for all our citizens.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Thursday 28th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I have enormous respect for my hon. Friend, but I think he misunderstands the nature of the backstop. If the backstop were ever to come into operation—of course we hope it would not—no fishing vessels from any European nation could fish in our waters without our permission, and at the same time we would have full access to their markets. I repeat: the backstop is not a desirable outcome, but were we in it, we would be master of our own seas, and also able to export our fish to foreign markets.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I represent the constituency of Strangford and the fishing village of Portavogie. Will the Secretary of State outline to me what progress has been reported to him regarding the voisinage agreement, issued by his Republic of Ireland counterparts? In the past few months, they seized two Northern Ireland boats—British boats—and their crew.

[Michael Gove]

The fishermen of Strangford and the Ards peninsula are people close to my heart. It is absolutely right that since the recent actions we have been in touch with the Irish Government specifically in order to ensure that we can have a fair allocation of fishing opportunities across the island of Ireland and its waters. The Republic of Ireland Government know how seriously we take this issue, and how urgent it is to reform.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Thursday 21st February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

6. What steps he is taking to tackle serious and organised waste crime.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Michael Gove)]

Last year, we commissioned a review of serious and organised crime in the waste sector. Recommendations from the review have informed our strategic approach to tackling waste crime. We have plans to prevent, detect and deter all forms of waste crime, including the creation of a joint unit for waste crime and a dedicated disruption team to deal with the threat of serious and organised criminal gangs.

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend raises an important point and is an indefatigable campaigner for everyone in his constituency. He is quite right not only that fly-tipping is a horrific crime that leads to environmental damage, but that it is doubly unfair for farmers and landowners who have to bear the costs of clearing the waste. That is why we have talked to magistrates and others to ensure that they appreciate that they have unlimited powers to fine those responsible for these crimes.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Secretary of State for that response, but will he further outline whether he intends to liaise with the Ministry of Justice to increase the judicial ability in these cases to make examples of those who repeatedly flout the rules, on the basis that the fine for being caught just once is less than the cost of disposing of ten times as much waste? In other words, will he make the fine fit the crime?

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: the “polluter pays” principle is central to good environmental management, and we must ensure that every arm of the justice system has the tools required to make sure that those who pollute pay a heavy price for their crime.

European Union (Withdrawal) Act

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Thursday 10th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend has made a very good point. In the event of leaving the European Union and in the event of the operation of the backstop, which neither of us wants to enter but we recognise of course is a possibility, we would have sovereign control over our waters. We could decide who came here and on which terms, and we could negotiate with other countries knowing that we were in a position of strength.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for what he has said so far. He will understand very well the position of the Democratic Unionist party in relation to the backstop, and he will know that my constituents clearly voted to leave. There are two matters about which we are concerned: the backstop and that control of fisheries will remain in our hands. There has been a question mark over that, too. The Secretary of State has been to Northern Ireland and met the MPs and the Unionist people, and he understands their opinion. May I suggest that what he needs to do now is remove the backstop? That is only way in which he will gain our support.

[Michael Gove]

I quite understand, and I have enormous respect not only for the hon. Gentleman, but for the sincerity and clarity with which he and his parliamentary colleagues have put their views. I hope that over the next few days we can help to ensure that all the interests of Northern Ireland are safeguarded more effectively than ever within the United Kingdom. As I have pointed out, the backstop is uncomfortable for many of us, but it is also uniquely uncomfortable for the European Union, which is one of the many reasons why I think we will conclude a deal before that.

Sustainable Fisheries

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 4th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. During the referendum campaign, he made a passionate and coherent case for many of the benefits that could accrue to Britain as a result of leaving the EU. My friend outside this House, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, Ruth Davidson, who argued for a slightly different position during the referendum, made the point that when it comes to fish, certainly in the Conservative party, we are all Brexiteers now.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for his statement. As he said, “a brighter future beckons”. Will he confirm that, when we leave the EU and get fishing back into our own hands again and under our own control, the fishing-village initiatives and the grant assistance will still be available, so that our fishing sector will be sustainable for the long term?

[Michael Gove]

Absolutely. It is our commitment to make sure that we support all the coastal and fishing communities throughout the United Kingdom that have suffered in the past, but for which a brighter future does beckon.

Leaving the EU: Fisheries Management

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 20th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

Yes, it is absolutely the case that we want as friction free a trade arrangement as possible with the EU, and indeed with other nations.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In my constituency on Friday, the talk of the day was: let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate. In ’74, when we joined the Common Market, Edward Heath sold the fishing sector for a bowl of pottage. In 2018, can the Secretary of State give an absolute guarantee that the fishing sector in Portavogie, in my constituency, and also at Ardglass and Kilkeel, has not been and will not be sold out by a transitional arrangement that leaves the EU in control of fishing policy?

[Michael Gove]

I appreciate the issues the hon. Gentleman raises, and I will do everything possible to address the concerns of fishermen not just on the Ards peninsula but in Kilkeel and elsewhere. I look forward to working with him and colleagues across the political divide in Northern Ireland to provide that reassurance.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Thursday 25th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Water UK’s initiative is wholly welcome. The idea of a nationwide network of refill stations is absolutely right. The decline of public water fountains marked a deeply regrettable trend, so I am glad that they are making a comeback.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Some 480 billion plastic bottles were sold globally in 2016. If we want to address one of the key issues, it has to be plastic bottles. What discussions has the Secretary of State had with the companies to reduce the number of bottles or to have them reused—whatever the case may be?

[Michael Gove]

We have discussed with industry bodies representing a variety of manufacturers and with retailers everything that we can do to reduce such use. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The world’s conscience has been awoken to the scourge of plastic in our oceans by the crusading work of documentary makers such as David Attenborough, and also by an increasing awareness of how important it is that we tread more lightly on our planet. The leadership that the hon. Gentleman has been showing in Northern Ireland is exemplary.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Thursday 7th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee makes an excellent point—I know that the Committee is currently conducting an inquiry into the impact of leaving the European Union on food standards overall. Critical to high food standards is the viability and improved productivity of our farmers who do such a wonderful job.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Northern Ireland Assembly has passed more stringent legislation on animal cruelty than the UK mainland. What discussions has the Secretary of State’s Department had with the Northern Ireland Assembly about bringing similar measures into operation in England and Wales?

GCSEs

Debate between Michael Gove and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 11th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I respect the devolution settlement, and it means, of course, that the Education Minister in Wales can make the appropriate decisions which he considers to be right for Wales, but I want to ensure that we can work together in future to bolster confidence in all the examinations that young people take. I have already had a meeting with the Welsh Education Minister, which was frank and cordial; I hope that we can have further such meetings.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Further to the question by my hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea), the timetable is tight, and discussions and interaction with the devolved Administrations are vital. We should be ever mindful that they also have a legislative process to go through. What steps will the Secretary of State take to ensure that the timetable is not too rigid, so that delivery in all parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland can be achieved?

[Michael Gove]

That is a very good point, and we will work with the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland, and with Westminster representatives like the hon. Gentleman, who takes a close interest in these matters, to make sure, if we can, that there is proper alignment.