Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Tuesday 21st January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, and I want to come to that. The Home Secretary ducks the issue if she simply blames the Liberal Democrats for this change in legislation, because she introduced it and Conservative MPs voted for, supported and defended it at every stage of its passage through the House, even when we raised questions and concerns.

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

rose—

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

rose—

[Yvette Cooper]

I want to make some progress, because I have not yet reached the main substance of my speech, but I will briefly give way to the hon. Gentleman and then my hon. Friend.

[Michael Ellis]

Does the right hon. Lady not accept that it was the courts of law in this country that criticised and weakened the control orders that her Government set up—the courts sounded their death knell—and that any Home Secretary has to establish a proper legal framework for the orders of this country to subsist?

[Yvette Cooper]

I am afraid the hon. Gentleman is simply wrong, and he knows he is wrong because he asked exactly that question of David Anderson, the independent terrorism reviewer, in the Select Committee on Home Affairs. The reply from David Anderson was clear. He said that control orders had not been undermined by the courts and had in fact been upheld by them—that the principle had been upheld and individual control orders had been upheld. Of course it is right for control orders to be scrutinised in the courts, as it is right for TPIMs to be scrutinised. However, the independent reviewer was absolutely clear: it was not the courts undermining control orders, nor was it the courts that decided to replace them with the weaker TPIMs; it was the Government.

Romanian and Bulgarian Accession

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Wednesday 27th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend note Lord Mandelson’s comment that the last Labour Government sent out “search parties” to encourage mass immigration? Moreover, the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) has said not only that the Labour Government’s policy was a “spectacular mistake”, but that it left them—and should have left them—with “red faces”. In the light of those admissions from certain leading Labour figures, will my right hon. Friend ensure that she continues to repair the damage done to this country by the negligence of the last Government?

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend is right, and I assure him that, working with colleagues such as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, I will do all that I can to repair the damage left by the last Government. Given that the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett), Lord Mandelson—as my hon. Friend pointed out—and the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) have all been reflecting on the mistakes made by the Labour Government in relation to immigration, I think that it would have been far preferable for the shadow Secretary of State to come to the House and apologise today.

Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I will make two comments in response to the right hon. Gentleman’s question. First, he knows full well that when TPIMs were introduced, this Government increased the funding available to the police and the Security Service for surveillance to the tune of tens of millions of pounds a year. I pointed this out in an earlier response to the shadow Home Secretary. Secondly, he referred to time limits but, as I have said, 43 people were on control orders and all of them have now exited those controls.

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that, under her leadership of the Home Office, despite the difficult times of austerity that we inherited from the previous Government, the funding in this area has increased, not decreased, as was suggested in duff information given to the media earlier? Will she also confirm that in May 2007, the then Labour Home Secretary had to come to the Chamber to explain why three men had escaped while under the control orders regime of the previous failed Government?

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend has got his facts absolutely correct about those who absconded while under control orders. We have protected the funding for counter-terrorism policing and increased the funding for surveillance and other measures as part of the package relating to the introduction of TPIMs. As I said, that involves tens of millions of pounds a year.

Border Force

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Wednesday 4th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Harper]

We do a very good job in intercepting hundreds of millions of illegal cigarettes every year, bur I was making a point about the relative focus. The last NAO report found that we were meeting and exceeding our targets on class A drugs and firearms. On cigarettes, we were doing less well, but we are still intercepting hundreds of millions of cigarettes. We work with our colleagues overseas to intercept where they are being manufactured and brought into the country. I have seen lots of examples from visits of where our officers have intercepted considerable volumes of cigarettes. That work needs continuous attention. I was simply making the point that, clearly, if we are going to focus our resources, I would prioritise dealing with class A drugs, firearms, illegal immigration and people who put weapons together above cigarettes, but that was in no way to say that dealing with the illegal smuggling of tobacco was in any way unimportant.

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

I congratulate the Minister because it is clear that the Department under his leadership has been doing much—

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Under his leadership?

[Michael Ellis]

Under his leadership on the immigration issue, the Department has done extremely well to improve UKBA over the last year, because is it not true that we inherited a massive pig in a poke from the last Labour Government, including massive net immigration, uncontrolled transitional arrangements for eastern Europeans, the Human Rights Act 1998, a 450,000 asylum backlog and all the rest of it? The Minister inherited a complete mess from the Labour party, and does he agree that we are doing everything to improve that position?

[Mr Harper]

I agree with my hon. Friend, and let me say two things. On the cigarette point, despite the fact that the last report found that we were not hitting the target for cigarette seizures, cigarette seizures were still up by 7%, so Border Force was improving its performance; it just was not improving it fast enough to hit our very ambitious targets. In answer to my hon. Friend’s general point, what he said provides me with a good opportunity to say that I am glad to be able to report that that huge asylum backlog was largely sorted out before I became Immigration Minister by my excellent ministerial colleague, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashford (Damian Green), so I had a much better inheritance than the one that he inherited from the Labour party.

Proposed Europol Regulation

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Monday 15th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hanson]

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will allow me to make a case. ACPO does cover Scotland. There is ACPO Scotland and Northern Ireland ACPO—[Interruption.] If the hon. Gentleman would calm down for a moment and allow me to continue rather than chirruping from the Front Bench, he will understand why I am raising the issue of ACPO. It has made severe criticisms of the Government’s approach, which I will reflect on in a moment.

Europol’s director, Rob Wainwright, recently told the European Committee in another place:

“It is undeniable that the demands of fighting international crime and terrorism require an ever-increasing level of co-operation between the member states.”

In my view and in his, and—I am pleased to say—that of the Government and the Liberal Democrats, Europol is a welcome institution. Today, however, we are considering the four or so areas where there are extensions to Europol’s activity in the new documents, which include extensions

“to strengthen and clarify the obligation for Member States to supply data to Europol in order for it to analyse…the information;”

to establish Europol links with data already in possession of member states to consider how we can process that in an effective way;

“to merge Europol and the European Police College…into a single EU agency, located”

not in the United Kingdom as is currently the case in Bramshill in Hampshire, but in The Hague; and an increase in

“parliamentary scrutiny of Europol by the EU Parliament and national Parliaments.”

The House of Lords Committee said that it wished to retain an opt-in to the proposals for European regulation. To assuage the hon. Members for Cambridge and for Cheltenham, that is the Labour party’s position on this take-note motion. In my view, however, the question under debate focuses on the words “post-adoption”. The Government’s proposal in the take-note motion states that the House

“agrees with the Government that the UK should opt into the Regulation post-adoption,”.

We are saying that the Government should consult ACPO, although I accept that that potentially involves a wider consultation about why and how the post-adoption issue should be approached.

I have in my possession a letter to the Minister from Allan Gibson, Queen’s Police Medal, who is the ACPO lead on extradition and mutual legal assistance. In it, he mentions a number of the reasons why this motion in the name of my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) was tabled to tease out from the Minister his position on a number of key issues.

The letter was sent to the Minister last week and states first and foremost:

“ACPO regards the UK’s continuing membership of Europol as highly beneficial to the national interest.”

I agree, the Minister agrees, and Liberal Democrat Members agree with that.

The letter goes on:

“ACPO supports the sharing of crime related intelligence and information between Member States facilitated through Europol…this facility has been a vital part of the development of more effective law enforcement cooperation across Europe and has made it possible to bring more offenders to justice and prevent crime.”

Again, I agree with that; I am not sure whether the Minister does, but I suspect that the Liberal Democrats do.

The letter continues:

“information exchange must be undertaken with appropriate levels of security and UK law enforcement would be keen to ensure that we had the necessary safeguards in place to protect highly sensitive intelligence and operations.”

I agree with that, which is why the Minister needs to consult in detail with ACPO on these matters to consider how we can do this without—dare I say this to Liberal Democrat Members—necessarily doing it post-adoption. In my view, they are being sold a fudge. They are being told that they can sign up to Europol, but they do so post-adoption.

I shall argue that post-adoption is an area of key concern, and one that we need to flesh out, consider in detail and come to a conclusion on. ACPO continued:

“Our view is that Europol membership is far too important to the UK to put at risk and adopting ‘a wait and see post-adoption opt in if we like it’ policy would not be the right approach.”

That is the view of ACPO, whose role is to look after, defend and develop crime-fighting potential in the UK. It continued:

“Such an approach would forfeit our opportunity to be seated around the table to influence our partners directly for one of signposting the basis on which we would rejoin, i.e. if our conditions are met.”

That is a very severe criticism, and it sets out why we need to maintain Europol membership. These are real concerns being placed on the record: in a letter to the Minister, ACPO said that it does not agree with his approach of a post-adoption opt-in. An explanation is needed, and we have tabled our amendment to explore these important issues of national security and data sharing to the satisfaction of the House, ACPO and others. We do not want to give up our seat at the table, as the proposed take-note motion proposes, in order to achieve our ends.

I welcome the Liberal Democrats’ support for Europol. Their policy briefing document states:

“We must not expose Britain to attack from criminal gangs. Liberal Democrats will keep Britain at the heart of international crime-fighting measures such as…the European Police Office (Europol) that the Conservatives want us to pull out of.”

[Interruption.] Sorry, I missed that comment from the hon. Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis).

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

indicated dissent.

[Mr Hanson]

No, he is withdrawing his heckle.

[Michael Ellis]

It was about the grammar

[Mr Hanson]

I am sorry, but I did not go to a public school, so my grammar might not be as good as other people’s.

The motion states that the UK

“should opt into the Regulation post-adoption”.

My concern is not that we might lose what we have with Europol, which is good, but that the Conservatives are looking for a reason not to develop it in the future. The Liberal Democrats, who are their partners in this great coalition of ours, are closer to my view than the Government’s. We need to hear the views of ACPO so that we can iron out the difficulties the Government have identified before the post-adoption position in the take-note motion becomes the default position.

I could quote many Liberal Democrats whose websites praise Europol and our signing up to the very things about the development of Europol that the Minister is concerned about. We need to consider the matter positively and find a way through it in the next few weeks and months so that ACPO’s concerns, which we might share, about data sharing and other issues can be worked on. We must not keep away from or fail to engage with the discussions about the development of the next stage of Europol.

I mention that with the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) in mind. He is honoured to hold the position of Chairman of the House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee, although how he ever got given that I will never know—[Hon. Members: “He was elected.”] I appreciate that, but he was not elected by me. In the spirit of common cause, let me say that paragraph 1.13 of his Committee’s helpful report, “Reforming Europol”, which is published today, quotes a letter from the Minister, which says:

“‘In the longer term, it is clear that our continued participation in Europol…will depend on our participation in this new measure.’”

Paragraph 1.14 states:

“If the UK’s request to rejoin the existing Europol Council Decision is successful, can the Minister confirm that, once the draft Regulation has been adopted, it would not be possible for the UK to continue to cooperate with Europol on the current basis and that, if the conditions set by the Government for opting in post-adoption are not met, the UK could expect to be ejected from Europol?”

I do not know the answer to that question, but the key point is this: if the Government decide that data sharing, information sharing and other matters are red lines, I suspect that they will part company with the Liberal Democrats on some of those issues, and they might part company with the Labour party too. The Government might find themselves in a position where they cannot maintain a presence in Europol. Europol will have developed organically over 18 months to two years and we will not have been at the table to deal with that organic development, because of the Government’s decision to take part in negotiations post-adoption. The Minister, in his response to the hon. Member for Stone, said:

“If the UK opted in now, and if we could not gain amendments to the text during negotiations, we would be bound by the elements which cause us concern, and would be subject to infraction if we failed to abide by provisions in the Regulation.”

It is my view that Europol does a good thing. There are issues that Europol needs to examine with member states, and ACPO, among others, has identified issues that need to be addressed. However, the Government’s approach of not ratifying until joining post-adoption is wrong. I want to see more discussion. We will not oppose the main motion as it is just a take note motion, but we will press the Opposition amendment, which indicates that we want further discussions with ACPO. When a chief police officer writes, in a letter to the Minister that was copied to the Home Secretary, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Prime Minister, that

“Our view is that Europol membership is far too important to the UK to be put at risk and awaiting ‘a wait and see post-adoption opt in if we like it’ policy would not be the right approach”

it is a very serious criticism of the Government’s position and the Minister has a duty to explain further why he has rejected ACPO’s advice. Before we reach a final decision, we should discuss further with those who have put their concerns on the record in a way that is self-evident and open to all.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

I am delighted to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert). I, too, support Europol, although I do not think that I would go quite as far as some Members in saying how wonderful it is in every particular, as though it were an instrument of perfection. I do not think it is that; it is, in fact, a rather bureaucratic organisation. Nevertheless, I appreciate its work, which it does extremely well. Its law enforcement achievements are there for all to see on its website, and it can be very proud of those achievements, which are signal in many respects. Generally speaking, I support Europol. I also appreciate the good work Rob Wainwright does in heading that organisation, and I am glad his term of office has been extended. There are too few British officials in charge of European organisations, and I would like to see more of them doing that.

I agree with the Minister that it is not appropriate at this point to be talking about opting in, because we are not to do in this House what others would not do in their respective legislatures in Europe, which is see our sovereignty or security put at risk inappropriately—or at all. Where there is insecurity, as far as we are concerned, about the sovereign powers of this country, I do not accept we should opt into the regulations as they currently are or as they are envisaged. We should be very cautious about where we go in respect of Europol and opting in.

Generally speaking, I am extremely supportive of the Government’s position. We are opting out of some 98 measures, and this is the first time powers have come back from Europe to the United Kingdom. I welcome that and I would like to see further powers coming back to the UK. I congratulate the Government.

I also accept that it is totally appropriate for us to opt into some very important powers, and Europol is one of the bodies I would like us eventually to be able to work ever closer with, as we do not want another costa del crime; we do not want another situation developing where people can escape the law and justice, as has been the case hitherto. All Members across the House accept this principle as it is in the wider public interest, but we should not allow the sovereignty and security of this country to be jeopardised. Where Ministers of the Crown feel it is unacceptable to have the arrangements currently envisaged under the regulations, I agree that they should withhold their consent.

Europol’s functions are addressed, and can be supported, through the European arrest warrant, which we discussed in our earlier debate. I have been a strong critic of the EAW in its previous form, but I can again support the Government in this provision for the simple reason that the envisaged changes to the EAW before we could opt back into it are such that they effectively mean it will be completely different from before. If we deal with the three main problems, it will, in my submission, be a different entity—a different thing—even though the name may be the same. The first problem is to do with proportionality—the fact that far too minor and petty offences were subject to extradition. That made it an object of ridicule, as well as injustice, in many cases. There is also the issue of charging. People were being extradited to European countries without those countries having made a charging decision as to whether, and how, to proceed. We must also address the issue of bail, so that individuals who are suspected of offences can be bailed pending their proceedings. Addressing those problems would have the effect of completely changing the EAW; it would be unrecognisable from the current instrument. That should reassure those who are concerned about opting back into it.

Europol does a lot of very good work, and I hope Ministers can work with our partners in Europe to resolve any differences, and we can continue the good work that organisation does in respect of the UK.

2014 JHA Opt-out Decision

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Monday 15th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Raab]

I thank my hon. Friend. I have already quoted him and cited the important probing that he did back in those days.

Labour Members have a choice: either they misled and exaggerated the nature of the opt-out they negotiated or the Commission and the EU are demonstrating bad faith now. This Government, this House and the British public will reward neither of those basic binary options.

The Opposition’s other line of attack is to say that the Government’s intention of junking at least 100 measures is trivial because they are meaningless or obsolete. That prompts the question of why the shadow Home Secretary’s party signed up to them in such an unblinking and unthinking manner in the first place. It demonstrates that Labour Members are the dogmatists, whereas we mean to scrutinise this stuff far more carefully and substantively, measure by measure.

The motion gives the House's endorsement to the block opt-out, but it defers any opt-ins pending consultation, parliamentary debate and approval. As we have heard, a major downside of opting back into any measure is the creeping authority of the Commission and the Luxembourg Court. I think it is acknowledged across the board, certainly by Conservative Members, that whatever we do about the opt-ins, that is a serious defect in our current relationship. I believe that the British Supreme Court should have the last word on British criminal justice matters, for example, on the extradition of a UK citizen or on policing operations. I do not understand why, having created the Supreme Court amid huge fanfare, Labour Members now want to give away jurisdiction and, in effect, emasculate the word “Supreme” in its name.

One need only look at the recent ruling by the European Court on Human Rights in Strasbourg on life prison terms, the ruling on Abu Qatada, or the ongoing saga of prisoner voting, to see what happens when we submit to European judicial jurisdiction, albeit one in Strasbourg rather than Luxembourg. If anyone thinks that the Strasbourg Court is activist, they should look at the record of the Luxembourg Court, particularly in the emerging area of justice and home affairs in cases such as the Metock and Pupino judgments. I recognise that opting back into measures without accepting the jurisdiction of the Commission and Luxembourg Court is technically not within the terms of this decision process. However, have Ministers raised this now as part of the Prime Minister’s wider commitment to renegotiate Britain's relationship with the EU? Has this marker been laid down for the future? That is a vital issue.

There are plenty of other precedents and models for a more flexible relationship on justice and home affairs. Britain is not formally a party to Frontex, the EU’s external border agency, because we want to keep our national border controls, but we co-operate on risk analysis and joint operations. Does this hurt our influence or operations? No, not a bit of it. Frontex executive director Ilkka Laitinen says:

“we do not see any difference between our UK colleagues and the others”.

Outside Europe, the Strategic Alliance Cyber Crime Working Group comprising Britain, the US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia—some of our closest partners—collaborates on cyber-crime and intelligence under a non-binding framework. It is regarded as the gold standard of operational co-operation. In terms of law enforcement co-operation at the operational level, Brussels is the odd one out in insisting that we sacrifice democratic control, bit by bit, as the price of operational co-operation. To what extent have Ministers explored these wider options for renegotiating our justice and home affairs relations with Brussels? I say that partly because it is a vital policy issue at stake but also because, at home and abroad, the crime and policing opt-out will be seen as a litmus test for Britain’s wider strategy of renegotiation. It is important for the credibility of that strategy that what we achieve on the crime and policing opt-out is understood as a point of departure, not the point of arrival.

Let me be clear about the positive alternative for our engagement with our EU partners on justice and home affairs. This is not all about knocking the European Union for ideological or dogmatic reasons. I see huge value in robust law enforcement co-operation at the operational level within Europe. The more flexible the EU can be on the structure of the legal form, the better operational friend they will find us in practice. Of course we want to exchange criminal records information, but we do not want the personal data of innocent British citizens washing around Europe, particularly with Governments—let us be honest about this—whom we would not trust to safeguard it. I have to say that I am not sure about trusting our own Government and Whitehall with lots of our personal data. If we do not trust Whitehall, what hope is there when it gets shipped off to Warsaw, Sofia and places like that?

Yes, we should engage in joint police operations, but there is no reason—none at all—for us to allow the initiation or oversight of such co-operation to be determined by EU authorities. There are also wider efforts to harmonise criminal law, which are wholly unnecessary and, to be frank, set a pretty bad precedent. Whether the question is which drugs to ban or how to define the delicate balance between hate crime and free speech, this House is the right place to pass British criminal law.

I want to touch on three specific measures. First, on Europol, I have no hesitation in saying that British police should share information and co-operate at an operational level. I worked directly with Europol and Eurojust when I was posted to The Hague during my time at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. I see real value in the college structure that allows smoother day-to-day co-operation between national offices. Europol is not perfect as currently configured. It has all the features of bureaucracy and waste that we expect from the EU, including—believe it or not—the €35,000 contract it signed in 2010 to send flowers to itself.

For all its flaws, Europol serves an important function. However, it is not in the UK national interest to see Europol acquire supranational powers that trump national authority over our police. I am already nervous about the existing power of Europol to initiate investigations in the UK and the increasingly limited right to refuse.

The new regulation on Europol, which we will debate later, would also require UK police forces to give foreign police open access to their files. All this would be interpreted by the European Court of Justice. Step by step, the EU is heading towards a supranational model. What is our long-term vision? Should we not be saying, clearly and unambiguously, that we will not hold back willing EU states that want to go down this route, but that it is not a model we will subscribe to over the long term? I ask again whether Ministers have laid down a future marker on that point.

Secondly, on Eurojust, a college of collaborating national prosecutors is hugely beneficial. I would rather it did not splash out €300,000 on Mercedes-Benz, as it did in 2010, or €33,000 on its end-of-year bash, as it did in 2011. Still, co-operation is important.

The Commission, however, is poised to announce a new regulation to beef up Eurojust’s supranational powers and create the European public prosecutor. The announcement is expected shortly. In fact, it appears to have been delayed and one might wonder whether the reason for that was so that it would not take place before this debate, but perhaps we would flatter ourselves too much if we believed that. In any event, I ask again whether Ministers have laid down a marker whereby, if Eurojust evolves in this way, Britain must carve out a separate, bespoke relationship.

Finally, on the European arrest warrant, few Members would deny that fast-track extradition benefits the police, although I think that some of the representations from law enforcement agencies have been rather one-sided. Even Commander Gibson of the Metropolitan police has said that

“resources are stretched dealing with the amount of EAWs we receive”,

because the regime is lop-sided. For every EAW Britain issued in 2011, we got 33 back. We receive about a third of all European arrest warrants.

A lot of non-British nationals are involved and we do not have quite the same stake or interest in the safeguards to which they are subject, but the fact of the matter is that the increasingly broad net of the EAW sweeps up far too many innocent Britons who are, to be frank, hung out to dry by the British justice system.

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

I was a fierce critic of the European arrest warrant, but does my hon. Friend agree that the changes envisaged by the Home Secretary make it completely different from that which has gone before? For example, the changes to proportionality restrict the extradition of people for petty and minor offences and the changes to bail mean that individuals can be bailed pending proceedings. There is also a change to charging decisions, because previously people could be extradited before the foreign country had even decided whether to charge them or not. Those decisions, taken by this Government, this House and the Home Secretary, mean that the European arrest warrant as we have known it will be completely different, so it can and should have our support.

[Mr Raab]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I will come back to the proposals in the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill and the extent to which we need to scrutinise them. I accept that this is an important opportunity to mitigate the blunt edges of the EAW, but the fact is that, at the moment, its broad net sweeps up too many innocent British nationals such as Andrew Symeou, Deborah Dark, Michael Turner, Edmond Arapi and, in my constituency, the retired judge Colin Dines, who suffered a stroke as a result of the pressure and stress of being subject to the warrant. We hope and expect that it will be dropped, but he and his family will still be left to pick up the pieces.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Buckland]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and to my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield North (Nick de Bois) for the campaign that they have rightly pursued on behalf of that Enfield resident.

I made the point earlier about the distinction between our system of justice and certain others. Ours seeks to use proper evidence to identify individuals who are suspected of committing crimes, and then to proceed against them. We have to look at that in the context of other systems in which the investigation process is far too long and in which evidence that we would not regard as strongly probative can be used to launch an investigation that can result in someone being incarcerated for an inordinate period of time. The amendments to the Anti-social behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill, which will amend the Extradition Act 2003, are vital in this context. I was delighted to see that one amendment provides that, in the absence of a prosecution decision, a court would have to consider that factor before allowing extradition. In fact, it would be barred where there was no clear prosecution decision to charge or try the individual concerned. I believe that the sort of monstrous situation in which Mr Symeou and others have found themselves can in large measure be avoided.

[Michael Ellis]

I hear what my hon. Friend says, but does he agree that the changes envisaged to the European arrest warrant as enunciated by the Home Secretary a few days ago make it a very different kettle of fish?

[Chris Bryant]

You’ve already made that point.

[Michael Ellis]

I see the Labour Benches are as full as I would expect them to be, which says something about the interest of the Opposition in this matter. Does my hon. Friend agree that the European arrest warrant will be something completely different because its charging decisions will be made beforehand, and that proportionality is another factor that must be carefully considered?

[Mr Buckland]

My hon. Friend is right to repeat a good point, and he should make no apology whatever for that. When I went to court I was always taught to make the point, make it again, and make it again if I thought the jury was in some way unsure.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Reckless]

My hon. Friend is right to say that these matters could lead to significant delays in the courts, and a test of judicial review. Some of those procedures can go on for some time, and there would be the prospect of a number of appeals. I wonder whether the Government have taken the sequencing of these issues into account in their timing.

[Michael Ellis]

Would my hon. Friend accept that this concerns the potential retention of more powers from Europe, not more powers going to Europe for the first time? The provision to which he refers therefore does not apply.

[Mark Reckless]

No, I would not accept that for a minute. I was prepared for a repetitious intervention later, but my hon. Friend got in early. I must make some progress, and I will deal with his point.

The situation is the complete opposite of what my hon. Friend says. Under Maastricht—that great success hailed from the rooftops by an ex-Prime Minister who called it game, set and match to Britain—we had intergovernmental procedures and pillared structures, meaning that the Commission and the European Court of Justice would not be involved in foreign and justice and home affairs matters; they would be dealt with solely on an intergovernmental basis. Unfortunately, those pillars have been chipped away at, and with the Lisbon treaty, they were knocked over, hence today’s motion. The previous Labour Government could not say that the constitution was exactly the same as the Lisbon treaty—I am informed by my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) that making out the two were different was one of the few face-saving fig leaves they picked on—and now these areas are being folded into the treaty structure originally envisaged under the Maastricht treaty. Rather than an opt-out from 130-odd measures, as the idea is styled, the proposal was—until the acceptance earlier of amendment (b), which was very significant—to opt into Commission enforcement of ECJ jurisdiction in 35 measures, including almost all of the most important.

Treaty on the Functioning of the EU

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I find it a little difficult to see the situation in the terms in which the hon. Gentleman has described it. If he would like to write to me about the issue that concerns him, then I can respond.

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

I congratulate the Home Secretary on the statement and on her decisions on this matter. Can she confirm two things? First, is not this the first time that 100 measures are being clawed back to the United Kingdom, rather than giving powers over to Europe, thanks to her decision and this Government’s decision? Secondly, is it not right that the European arrest warrant, which I have criticised in the past, is now able to be supported because her decision to make these fundamental changes will make it a totally different thing from what it is now, and people will not be able to be extradited for stealing a wheelbarrow? [Interruption.]

[Mrs May]

I thank my hon. Friend, who is absolutely right about the European arrest warrant. That is the whole point about bringing forward the amendments to the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill. I hope that the Opposition will support those amendments. They have indicated that they would be willing to see reform to the European arrest warrant, but we wait to see what their position will actually be.

On my hon. Friend’s first point, yes, taking the decision on the opt-out from nearly 100 measures is important. It is part of the approach that this Government have taken. The Prime Minister exercised the veto for the first time. We have committed to work on the balance of competences, and of course as the Conservative party we are committed to a much wider renegotiation. [Interruption.]

Abu Qatada (Deportation)

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Monday 8th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

Many people pay lip service to the concept of having respect for the law, but in cases such as this, which are deeply frustrating, testing and troublesome, the Home Secretary shows real respect for the law, and I congratulate her on her conduct and that of her Ministers throughout this matter. Will she look at the many varied avenues of appeal that are open to people like Abu Qatada, which can be curtailed without any infringement of the overall rights, and will she express the thanks of this House to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan for its extremely friendly actions in this case?

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend is right in referring to the many layers and avenues of appeal that are available. It is precisely that sort of issue that we wish to examine in considering any changes we will introduce in the immigration Bill later this year. We have been co-operating with the Jordanian Government on this matter for some time now, and that co-operation has been very good, but I am pleased that the treaty we signed with them is more general and will apply in other cases as well. There is benefit to both the United Kingdom and Jordan in that mutual legal assistance treaty.

Abu Qatada

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I have made it clear on a number of occasions that prosecution has always been alongside the other activities that the Government are undertaking. It is looked at. At the moment, we have an active police investigation, on which it is not appropriate for me to comment. It is not the case, as the hon. Gentleman’s question seems to imply, that prosecution has never previously been considered. I remind him that, as he well knows, prosecution is not a matter for the Home Secretary; it is a matter for the Crown Prosecution Service.

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

Does the Home Secretary realise that she has massive support from the British people for the work she has been doing to get rid of an odious man from this country? She has that support because people recognise the frustrations involved in the processes, thanks to the Labour Government’s human rights legislation. I congratulate her on the mutual legal assistance arrangements with Jordan, and I recommend that she continues on her course; eventually it will succeed and we will rid this country of a dangerous and odious man.

[Mrs May]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. He is absolutely right: everybody wants to see Abu Qatada deported to Jordan. It is frustrating that it has taken so long. As I said in my statement, the process started in 2001, so it is not something that has suddenly come up for this Government. We have been taking steps and we have progressed, in that the Special Immigration Appeals Commission accepted the assurances from the Jordanian Government in a number of areas in relation to a retrial. We still have the single point to deal with, and I believe that the mutual legal assistance agreement will provide widely for deportations between both countries and will also deal with the point about Abu Qatada.

UK Border Agency

Michael Ellis Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I recognise, Mr Speaker, that my referring to the National Crime Agency opened up the possibility for the hon. Gentleman’s question. I am well aware of the operation of the National Crime Agency in Northern Ireland. We want to ensure that the agency is able to do the job that it needs to do across the United Kingdom, and we are happy to continue discussions with those who share the same aim.

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

I congratulate the Home Secretary on her statement. Should not UKBA now join the long list of Labour’s immigration failures, including the Human Rights Act 1998, an immigration backlog of 450,000, out-of-control and increasing net immigration and a total lack of control of eastern European immigration?

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend makes very good points. It is precisely because of the difficulty that Opposition Front Benchers have in defending their poor record on immigration that we hear them trying to go on the party political attack rather than accepting the necessary decisions to deal with our immigration system.