Autumn Statement Resolutions

Debate between Mel Stride and Steve McCabe

Monday 27th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

I was expecting a devastating, killer intervention, given how keen the hon. Lady was to intervene, but it never quite arrived. She will know that in the Budget, the Chancellor made a substantial investment—the hon. Lady mentioned the figure £5 billion—in childcare. In my Department that is huge, because it means that we will deal with the retrospective nature of the first month’s payment, and that the amount available to those wishing to take advantage of childcare will be increased by some 49%.

Through our back to work plan, we are phasing in more intensive support and more rigorous requirements on jobseekers much earlier in their claim. We are accelerating the point at which claimants are required to undergo a more intensive 12-month work-search regime, which will kick in six months, rather than nine months, after the start of a claim. Anyone who has not moved into work by the end of that will be required to accept a mandatory work placement or other intensive activity to improve their chances of employment.

For those who refuse that support, it is right that there should be consequences. If a claimant does not accept those new conditions without good reason, their universal credit claim will be closed. As a result, no claimant should reach 18 months of unemployment in receipt of their full benefits if they have not taken every reasonable step to comply with jobcentre support. We will back that up with closer monitoring to ensure that the rules are being followed, including by tracking claimants’ attendance at jobs fairs and at interviews organised by jobcentres. That will mean that work coaches have the information that they need to know whether claimants are meeting their commitments. As part of this more rigorous approach, we will continue looking at the impact of more intensive support at seven weeks into a claim being delivered through our additional jobcentre support.

These back to work reforms strike at the heart of the quid pro quo that defines the contract between the state and individual. We are saying, “The Government will provide you with the support you need to move into work, but if you fail to keep your side of the bargain—if you refuse to engage or ignore available job opportunities —we will stop your benefits.”

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I do not think that many people will object to the idea that those who can work should work, and that the Secretary of State’s measures to get people who are capable back into work should be adopted. However, he will be aware that the Work and Pensions Committee has recently been considering vulnerable people who are entitled to benefits but do not get them. What safeguards can he provide to guarantee that the health of people who are ill is not made worse by the pressure that some jobcentres will apply in trying to meet his targets?

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Gentleman raises a really important point. I have great respect for him, and I have appeared before the Select Committee and been cross-examined by him. He is right to raise those kinds of concerns. They are concerns that we think about on a daily basis in my Department, to make sure that we get it right.

The regime I am outlining is for people who have been intensively supported for 18 months during their job search, who are fit and able—so they are not the people the hon. Gentleman described—and who, when presented at that point with the opportunity for work, decline that work. I think most people up and down the country would feel that it is right that there are consequences at that point.

When it comes to those who cannot work—those who are long-term sick or have significant disabilities—I want more than anybody else, and as much as any other person in this House, whichever side they may be on, to make sure that, as a civilised society, we are there to support them, no questions asked. But we can only do that for the most vulnerable in our society if we have a fair system that carries the support of the general public and can fund itself in the way we need it to.

Our back to work plan is about putting fairness at the heart of our welfare system: fairness for claimants who play by the rules and try their best, and fairness for taxpayers who contribute to the system. Contrast that with the Opposition, who have no plan. The only serious proposal they have for welfare reform is to water down benefit claimants’ requirements to work, which could cost £2 billion. That is not just reckless but unfair. It is no wonder that Labour has never left office with unemployment lower than when it entered it. It is no wonder that under Labour, youth unemployment rose by over 40%, unemployment increased by over 1 million, and more than 1 million people were left to languish on out-of-work benefits for almost a decade. That was not a record in office; it was a national disgrace. On Labour’s watch, countless lives were left to ruin.

The puddle of nihilism that is the Opposition Front Bench has no plan. Labour Front Benchers carp and vacillate from the sidelines, suck their teeth and dither, transfixed on the one hand by the fairer approach that they know in their heart the public demand, but frightened stiff on the other hand by the rank and file behind them. Is the truth not rather simple, Mr Deputy Speaker? They have no plan because compassion demands courage, and by their omissions they tell us that they have neither. This autumn statement protects the poorest and most in need, rewards work by cutting taxes and increasing pay, and takes the long-term decisions on welfare reform by helping people into work, growing the economy and changing lives.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mel Stride and Steve McCabe

Monday 19th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

As my hon. Friend will be aware, the Treasury has made it clear that there will not be a significant fiscal intervention around mortgages. Unfortunately, that would serve only to complicate the effectiveness of the measure and the monetary policy effects that the Government and the Bank of England are looking to achieve to halve inflation by the end of this year.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

T2.   The charity Scope reports that a disabled household is £900 a month poorer than a non-disabled household, because of essentials such as specialist medical equipment, aids, adaptations, diet and heating. Does that not make the one-off £150 payment look pretty miserly?

State Pension Age: Review

Debate between Mel Stride and Steve McCabe

Thursday 30th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

I agree with my hon. Friend and neighbour. She is absolutely right that we need to use the best possible data that we have, which is precisely why we have taken the decision that we have, and I am pleased that the Opposition have welcomed it.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I am sure that it is always a relief for a member of this Government to postpone an unpopular decision, especially in the light of what we have seen in France. Like the right hon. Member for Wokingham (John Redwood), I am curious about the likely impact on Treasury calculations and whether it has been factored into recent projections.

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Gentleman will know that fiscal sustainability is one of the key issues that we examine in coming to these conclusions and in the work carried out by the independent assessor of these matters. If he has further specific questions about the impact of one particular set of decisions on the fiscal outlook over and above any other, I am happy to discuss those with him outside the Chamber.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mel Stride and Steve McCabe

Monday 6th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

I very much welcome the hon. Lady’s question—I certainly enjoyed my time working with her on the Treasury Committee, where she raised these matters with great passion. She is absolutely right that flexible working is the way forward, and not just for the over-50s but often for those who have disabilities. This is a big opportunity that we need to seize.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I understand that the latest figures reveal that there are 788,000 young people not in employment, education or training. Does the Secretary of State regard that as an acceptable figure, and if not, how and when is he going to tackle it?

[Mel Stride]

Even one person in the circumstances that the hon. Gentleman refers to is one too many. We are going to come forward very shortly with further measures on how we address those particular people, and at the time of the Budget on 15 March—which is very close now—the hon. Gentleman will probably learn more.

Draft Double Taxation Relief and International Tax Enforcement (Colombia) Order 2017 Draft Double Taxation Relief and International Tax Enforcement (Lesotho) Order 2017

Debate between Mel Stride and Steve McCabe

Wednesday 10th January 2018 General Committees

[Mel Stride]

May I, at the outset, make one thing extremely clear to the Committee? The Government are entirely committed to supporting lesser developed countries. We are one of the few countries in the EU and among the advanced industrialised countries that meets the 0.7% aid requirement. The hon. Member for Oxford East will know that the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill, which is going through Parliament, will ensure that we take into UK law the unilateral preferences that pertain under the European acquis to ensure we provide zero-duty arrangements on a selfless, unilateral basis with a number of countries that need our support. It is important to understand where we are coming from in our overall negotiations and in the arrangements we enter into with the countries that are the subject of this debate.

I will go through some, at least, of the most prominent questions that were asked. There was a rather eye-watering number of them, delivered at rattle-gun speed, and some were quite technical. Although I enjoy the mental gymnastics of these debates—I always enjoy debating with the hon. Lady—I hope she bears with me as I do my best to pick them up. I was barely thinking about some of them when I had two or three more thrust in my direction. I will do my best to cover as much as I can.

The hon. Member for Glasgow East asked who opened the discussions between ourselves and Colombia. It was us, because Colombia is a significant Latin American economy. It is currently going through its accession process with the OECD, and it is expanding its network of double taxation agreements, including with our competitors—other nations around the world. We have always had close and friendly ties with that country, so we approached it. It was willing, and we have now concluded an agreement.

Like the hon. Members for Birmingham, Selly Oak and for Oxford East, the hon. Member for Glasgow East raised the important issue of transparency in the negotiation process. Tax treaties are international agreements that are given effect through law. They are therefore subject to parliamentary scrutiny and debate. Only when both sides are satisfied with the content of a new treaty will it be signed and published. Parliament will then scrutinise the agreement. If Parliament is not satisfied, the treaty will not enter into force. Where these treaties come about, we are in a position to scrutinise them, as we clearly have in some detail in this Committee. Such treaties have generally enjoyed cross-party support to date. It is recognised that they generally have a positive role in creating and enhancing cross-border trade, investment and employment.

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak raised an example of the potential use of this arrangement or treaty in the context of tax avoidance. He mentioned Mauritius specifically. Mauritius has now become a signatory to the OECD base erosion and profit shifting project. It is therefore bound by the rules and regulations in that regard. If we look at offshore so-called tax havens—I think that was the expression he used—they are most typically brought into play where double taxation arrangements are not necessarily in place and there is a fear that double taxation may occur. In that sense, so-called tax havens or overseas tax trusts are being used to create a neutral tax space. The overarching point is that the proliferation of double taxation agreements is to be welcomed in that context.

The hon. Members for Birmingham, Selly Oak and for Oxford East raised the important issue of whether we were in some way exploiting Lesotho as a consequence of the agreement. The hon. Lady went into some detail on her bedtime reading. She went back to the 1997 treaty to look at the various rates of withholding tax and so on. The point I would make is that it is not possible for us to impose a treaty on another country, even if we wanted to. It is for the other country to decide when it is ready to enter into negotiations and to weigh up the trade-off between retaining all its taxing rights and possibly limiting those rights to attract foreign investment.

To answer a question that the hon. Member for Glasgow East posed about Colombia, it was Lesotho that approached us to seek a further double taxation arrangement. There were certainly elements within that negotiation where it sought to achieve certain outcomes to which we acquiesced.

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak also raised the issue of how the tax treaty will support Lesotho’s development. UK tax treaties are negotiated by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, reporting to Treasury Ministers. DFID is fully supportive of HMRC’s approach. It works with the Treasury on various aspects at various times in these various arrangements. DFID supports the tax authorities in developing countries to increase their capacity to raise revenues, and it works with the Treasury to develop the Government’s tax and development policy. The Government have also set up a specialist tax capacity building unit in HMRC that deploys HMRC staff in support of DFID country offices to provide technical expertise. The point is that, even outside the context of the treaties, the Treasury and HMRC are there alongside DFID in ensuring that we provide support to those countries and recognise the importance that they rightly place on the sustainability and durability of their tax base.

Other Governments have approached the negotiation of treaty arrangements and the process by which they go through Parliament in exactly the same way as we are looking at this today. It is certainly the case that treaties of this nature under the last Labour Government —in the dim and distant past—went through a similar process to that which we are following today.

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak raised the important issue of binding arbitration and asked whether it is typical of these kinds of arrangements. In some cases it is; in some cases it has not been. That is because of historical changes that have occurred in this area. The new model agreed under the auspices of the OECD will now make it more normal. The decision taken by Lesotho and ourselves was that it would be appropriate to operate the model set out by the OECD for binding arbitration.

A question was raised about the renegotiation of our existing trade treaties with other nations—those treaties being between the European Union and other countries. It is my understanding that we will not need to do that in the case of those particular treaties.

The hon. Member for Oxford East asked for reports on the effects on the investment and the tax take and so on. Those are immensely complicated questions to answer; it is very complicated to try to assess and determine exactly what the impacts of a double taxation agreement with another country—an agreement with two countries interacting, with all the various externalities that impinge on those circumstances—will be. It is, of course, the British Government’s responsibility to continue to closely monitor those impacts as far as we can. All legal measures, treaties and agreements with other countries are always constantly under review, as the hon. Lady would expect.

[Steve McCabe]

I want to clarify one point on binding arbitration. As I understand it, consultations take place between the Government and various stakeholders and interested parties in preparation for the treaty. I am curious to know whether any British companies made representations that they wanted the binding arbitration clause included. If so, would the Minister tell us who they are?

[Mel Stride]

As the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, that is a highly specific question, which I cannot be expected to be in a position to answer at present. I am certainly happy to get back to him. Typically with treaties of this nature, a number of discussions are held with stakeholders, the overseas Governments concerned and so on. That is one reason why such arrangements take a considerable time to come to a conclusion.

The agreement with Colombia—our first with that country—brings a significant improvement to our coverage of the region and will improve the trading conditions for businesses in both countries and aid the fight against tax avoidance and evasion. We have brought forward a mutually beneficial treaty in the case of Lesotho.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Mel Stride and Steve McCabe

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 11th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important issue, but these will be matters for the Royal Bank of Scotland. The most important aspect when one considers the Royal Bank of Scotland is clearly that it is brought back to being a fighting-fit organisation, employing as many people as possible as a business, contributing to the Exchequer, and creating value going forward.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I am interested to hear the Minister’s confidence about the money he will be taking through the bank levy. How does the money the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) says has been raised so far compare with the amount the taxpayer has already paid to bail out the banks, and how much of that money have we had back?

[Mel Stride]

It is interesting that the hon. Gentleman mentions the amount that was required to bail out the banks, given that it was the then Labour Government who caused the problem that required the bail-outs in the first place. There is a long and detailed history of exactly what happened: we had lax regulation, and the Bank of England was not in a position to regulate the institutions concerned. The hon. Gentleman might like to look up the answer to his question himself and then inform other members of the Labour party of what he discovers.

Paradise Papers

Debate between Mel Stride and Steve McCabe

Monday 6th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is but one further example of making companies criminally responsible where their employees try to facilitate tax avoidance. That is the right way to go and is just another measure the Government have brought in.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

Does the Minister accept that the scale of aggressive avoidance exposed by these revelations shows that the general anti-abuse rule introduced in 2013 is not working and that what we need is general anti-avoidance legislation so that there is no room for doubt and no room for manoeuvre?

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Gentleman talks about the amount revealed by these disclosures, and I assume he is centring his remarks on the half-hour television programme last night. The reality is that we do not yet know exactly the extent of what will be revealed, which is why HMRC has asked those with the data to make it available—so that we can use it to get on with the job of cracking down on those who might not have behaved as they should.

Ways and Means

Debate between Mel Stride and Steve McCabe

Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Wednesday 6th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

Will the Minister explain how long the Government have been working on this major concession and when he anticipates that there will actually be some change that means non-doms experience the same arrangements as ordinary taxpayers in this country?

[Mel Stride]

The answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question is that that is precisely what this Bill will be achieving. We will be putting an end to permanent non-dom status, so that those who are “deemed domicile” are treated on the same basis for taxation purposes as other residents in our country. Let me gently remind him that his party was in government for 13 years and very little happened then on the issues to which he now professes objection. So we should not be taking too many lessons from Labour on the issue of non-doms.

Police (Detention and Bail) Bill

Debate between Mel Stride and Steve McCabe

Thursday 7th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Steve McCabe]

We agree on getting the emergency legislation through; that is why we are here. But it is a little premature to say that no one has been harmed by what has happened, because that remains to be seen.

It can be argued that what happened on 5 April led to people thinking that they were dealing with a little local difficulty, because that is a perfectly reasonable conclusion to draw, but it is reasonable also to say that, when the judgment was made on 19 May, people should have started to think that it had wider implications and alarm bells should have started to ring. It appears, however, that at that point no alarm bells whatever rang in the Home Office.

On 24 June, by which time the written judgment was available, no one thought it sufficiently important to be dealt with on the Friday afternoon. The Home Office received it on 24 June and waited until the Monday—the whole weekend—before starting to consider its implications.

The Home Secretary was dismissive of my comments on Michael Zander’s article, but here was a respected legal expert giving a clear warning on his concerns about the judgment. I do not know whether the Home Secretary knows, and I am quite happy to table a parliamentary question, but I should be really interested to find out whether the Home Office takes that journal, Criminal Law and Justice Weekly. I imagine that it does, and I therefore presume that somebody whom the Home Secretary employs reads it, so we should not be quite as dismissive of Michael Zander’s piece as she suggests.

[Mel Stride]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Steve McCabe]

Oh, why not.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mel Stride]

Does the hon. Gentleman not accept, however, that the article was published after the written judgment? That is the critical point.

[Steve McCabe]

Presumably, one reason why that guy is one of the country’s leading legal experts is that he, rather remarkably, anticipated such a judgment and was able to give some advice and guidance on what might be necessary if it were so. I am not therefore too concerned with that point.

Are we seriously being asked to believe that Ministers and officials sit in the Home Office and wait to see whether the police have any concerns, and that if the police do have concerns, they e-mail, phone or send a carrier pigeon to the Home Office at which point Ministers suddenly start to take their responsibilities seriously? If that is what we are being asked to believe, I have a suggestion for the Home Secretary: why does she not make some cuts by sacking some of her useless officials, rather than police officers? It sounds as if they are not serving her particularly well.

The hon. Member for Beckenham, who has left his place, asked whether it was true that no one had been harmed as a result of the judgment. We do know, as the Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice said, that 80,000 criminal suspects were affected by the decision, and the implications of it are one obvious reason why we are here today.

I am not entirely sure that I agree with the hon. Member for South Ribble (Lorraine Fullbrook), who said that there were no problems with detention, because earlier this week I read a report stating that, certainly in the west midlands, the police are decommissioning detention cells as a result of the budgetary savings that they are required to make, so in some parts of the country there may be pressure on police cells as a result of the situation.