Business of the House

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

Thursday 11th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Gentleman raises a very important point. As he will know, the Prime Minister requested that the Investigatory Powers Commissioner, Sir Adrian Fulford, review Government policy in this area. That review has now concluded and there will be an announcement to the House in due course. The Ministry of Defence will continue to be fully aligned with that, and any future, guidance.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House join me in congratulating Dr Jennifer Garden, who won the L’Oréal-UNESCO Women in Science Fellowship for her work on finding alternative sustainable uses for polymers and plastics? May we have an urgent debate or statement from the Government on how better we can support innovative research and development that will help our climate?

[Mel Stride]

I join the hon. Gentleman in congratulating Dr Jennifer Garden on her achievement and her important work, and on serving as an exemplar for other women. We wish to encourage more women to work in science, not least in the area of the environment. He will know that we are leading the pack in the world on getting to net zero carbon emissions by 2050, which we have legislated for in this House. This would be an excellent matter for debate, perhaps in Westminster Hall.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

Wednesday 27th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

May I reassure my hon. Friend that discussions are held right across Whitehall Departments, including those to which he refers, to ensure that the city deal projects, including the Stirling and Clackmannanshire city deal, are as successful as possible? I also recognise the extraordinary amount of work, effort and drive that he has personally put into helping ensure that they are a success.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State and I had a conversation in the Tea Room on Monday, but given that he is not answering this question I will have to ask about something else. Brexit is obviously the biggest issue with regard to the impact on the Scottish economy, so can the Financial Secretary tell us how much the Scottish economy will shrink by if the Prime Minister’s deal is passed in this House?

[Mel Stride]

The cross-Government analysis that we have already come forward with shows, as the hon. Gentleman will know, that, on the basis that we are leaving the European Union, by far the best outcome is to support the Prime Minister’s deal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

Wednesday 17th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. That is another example of why we should support the Scottish whisky industry. I have received many representations, not least from Conservative Members who represent Scottish constituencies, standing up for Scottish whisky and making sure that we make the investments we need going forward.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

The financial services sector is also critical for the Scottish economy and for my constituents in Edinburgh, but none of the Government’s Brexit plans mention this service sector. What can the Minister say to the financial services sector in Edinburgh, and to my constituents whose jobs depend on it, about the Government’s strategy for the service sector post Brexit?

[Mr Speaker]

With reference to whisky.

Draft Scottish Rates of Income Tax (Consequential Amendments) Order 2018

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

Monday 26th March 2018 General Committees

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mel Stride)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Scottish Rates of Income Tax (Consequential Amendments) Order 2018.

May I say what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David? The order updates legislation to reflect structural income tax changes announced by the Scottish Government and includes a number of consequential amendments to tax reliefs, which remain reserved. The changes will ensure certainty and consistency for taxpayers across the United Kingdom, no matter where they are based.

The Government have transferred extensive income tax powers to the Scottish Government, ensuring that they are more accountable to Scottish taxpayers. Since April 2017, the Scottish Government have been able to vary the income tax rates and thresholds, except for the personal allowance for non-savings, non-dividends income.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

I thank the Financial Secretary for giving way so early in his contribution. Does he agree this statutory instrument means that the vow made during the independence referendum to devolve as much as possible under agreement to the Scottish Parliament has been approved?

[Mel Stride]

I would say that it is entirely in line with the vows we made at that time, and indeed the Scottish Government have exercised their right under the Scotland Act 2016 to vary Scottish tax rates—both the thresholds and the marginal rates. The Scottish Government used those powers at their recent budget to make a number of changes, including the introduction of a new starter rate of 19%.

Leaving the EU: UK Ports (Customs)

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

Monday 19th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

We are committed to, and confident that we will achieve, a frictionless border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland that will facilitate trade in the future.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

Will ports on mainland Europe reciprocate by having no customs checks for UK goods?

[Mel Stride]

It will depend on exactly what transpires in the negotiations, as the hon. Gentleman knows.

Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 8th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

The opportunities will be very significant indeed—[Interruption.] If the hon. Lady will allow me, I will attempt to answer her question. Of course our trading relationship with Europe is extremely important, which is why we are having negotiations with our European partners. It is important to us and to them to ensure that we maintain those relationships to the highest degree. However, a growing percentage of our trade is now taking place outside the European Union—certainly more than was the case five or 10 years ago—and the expanding markets of the future are not necessarily going to be the countries that constitute the membership of the European Union. To answer the hon. Lady’s question directly, the opportunities lie out there in China, India, the United States and other countries around the world with which we will be able to forge a freer set of trade agreements than we have been able to contemplate during our membership of the European Union.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

The Minister continually uses the word “frictionless” and talks about keeping things as they are now. Indeed, the Bill will facilitate our keeping the customs union regulations as they are at the moment, so what principle are the Government using to take participation in the customs union off the table?

[Mel Stride]

This comes back to the fundamental point that on leaving the European Union we will be leaving the customs union. Then it will simply become a question of what kind of relationship we negotiate with the EU and its customs union. The Government’s position is clear on this. We want these arrangements to be as frictionless as possible. We want to facilitate trade rather than putting barriers in the way of what will be a European customs union of 27 nations after Brexit.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

Tuesday 18th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

We have no plans to tax the winter fuel allowance.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

One of the best boosts to economic growth is Government infrastructure spending, so will the Chancellor look down the back of the sofa where he found the £1 billion for the deal with the Democratic Unionist party and find more change to sign the Edinburgh city growth deal?

Currency in Scotland after 2014

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

Wednesday 12th February 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)]

rose—

[Ian Murray]

Let me make a little progress. I know that other hon. Members want to speak, but I will allow hon. Members to intervene.

It is not just an issue for Scotland. The rest of the UK—this is an important point, which other hon. Members have made in interventions—would have to agree. It appears from speculation in the press today—perhaps the Treasury Minister can indicate whether it is speculation—that there will not be an agreement on currency union, as it is undeliverable. If an agreement is not possible or is ruled out by the Treasury, what will be the Scottish Government’s plan B? [Interruption.] The nationalists are chuntering away about what they would do. I am happy to take an intervention if they want to tell the people of Scotland now what the Scottish nationalists’ plan B is for the currency should Scotland vote yes for independence. [Interruption.]

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[Ian Murray]

That is a very timely intervention, because there is no doubt about this. Everyone in this room, everyone watching this debate and everyone in Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom will know what happens when people do not pay their bills. When people default on their bills, they end up in a situation whereby the bills get higher. Interest and credit get higher and more difficult to get. Indeed, they are punished for ever more with an incredibly bad credit rating. In the context of an economy and a country, that is devastating for jobs and public services at the very least.

[Mel Stride]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Murray]

I will give way once more, but I do need to move on.

[Mel Stride]

The hon. Gentleman rightly highlights the problem of any two countries that go into a currency union and therefore have to get their budgets, spend and tax agreed between them, which in itself will be deeply problematic with an independent Scotland under SNP leadership certainly, but will he also recognise that the situation is even worse than that? In the event that, in that situation, Scotland overspent, it would in effect be down to London to decide that it was going to have to row back on that expenditure and cut expenditure north of the border.

[Ian Murray]

I am grateful for that intervention. Again, I can only emphasise what the Governor of the Bank of England said. It was a non-partisan speech; it was a technical speech about currency unions and that was the point that he made: those monetary, fiscal and spending stabilisers have to be in place; otherwise a currency union does not work.

What about business? We sell twice as much to the rest of the UK as we do to the rest of the world combined. Losing the pound would mean that every time a Scottish company sold to or bought from somewhere down south, they would incur the cost of exchanging money. That would result in higher prices for us all, as the supermarket bosses—again, we have been told by the First Minister to ignore them—warned us last week. We should listen to business. In a strong criticism of the SNP White Paper, the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland has warned that there is

“a high degree of uncertainty as to what the currency of an independent Scotland will be.”

ICAS states that no alternatives have been set out in case the negotiations are unsuccessful, and warns:

“The choice of currency will have a very significant impact across the pensions sector, the economy and the country generally, and this will inevitably remain as a major uncertainty for the time being.”

We should listen to that warning from Scotland’s accountants. The SNP must tell us what currency it would use instead. Will it set up an unproven currency or rush to join the euro?

Growth and Infrastructure Bill

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

Monday 5th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray]

Given the current state of the economy, the hon. Gentleman should be a little more contrite when it comes to economic growth. I only hope that those remarks do not come back to haunt him when the effects of the Olympics are stripped out of growth in the next forecast. We all want to see growth in this country, but we need to wait and see what happens. As I was saying, the Prime Minister’s claim is not supported by the evidence in front of us.

Let me move on to what I think is the worst part of the Bill—shares for rights, or, more accurately, rights for peanuts. This part of the Bill introduces the new concept of an employee owner, but not one Government Member has raised this issue during the debate. I think that perhaps says it all and reflects the debate we had on Third Reading of the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill. On the Opposition side, we are strongly in favour of employee ownership, but coupling it with slashing employment rights is contradictory and counter-productive.

Doing away with people’s rights at work is wrong in principle and will do nothing for economic growth. The Employee Ownership Association has pointed out that boosting employee ownership

“does not require the dilution of rights”.

The Chancellor heralded this as an attempt to create a flexible work force, which is ironic given that taking up the shares for rights scheme will mean giving up on flexibility in the sense of flexible working. We must emphasise time and time again that the UK already has the third most flexible employment regime in the OECD—even before the measures passed on Third Reading of the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill last week. This has nothing to do with flexibility; it will simply allow employers to fire at will.

We oppose these measures, not just because they are bad for employees, but crucially because they are bad for business. As Justin King of Sainsbury’s has said, these proposals are likely further to damage the already fragile reputation of business. He said:

“What do you think the population at large will think of businesses that want to trade employment rights for money?”

Any employee who signs up to the scheme will effectively allow the employer to operate a compensated no-fault dismissal scheme of the type proposed by Adrian Beecroft which, apparently, is so fiercely resisted by the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. Simon Caulkin, a writer on management and business, said:

“In effect, Osborne’s cobbled-together scheme is a back-door re-run of the agenda of Adrian Beecroft”.

Paul Callaghan, partner in the employment team at Taylor Wessing, went further when he said:

“This makes Adrian Beecroft’s fire at will proposals look moderate.”

There is absolutely no evidence to back up these proposals. Being offered as little as £2,000 in shares to give up entitlements to redundancy payments, training, unfair dismissal and some maternity provisions is bad enough, but how can the Government claim to be the most family-friendly ever, when the right to request flexible working hours, which might be helpful for child care and parental employment prospects, is also included in the Bill?

[Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)]

Surely the whole point of an employee share scheme is that it is voluntary and optional. Is it not rather patronising of the hon. Gentleman to suggest that those in employment are incapable of exercising such a choice?

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[Ian Murray]

Let me make three points in answer to that question. First, this applies to new jobs. Secondly, there would be nothing to prevent an employer from sacking all the work force and then taking them on again with new contracts. Thirdly, how can the scheme be voluntary if the job is conditional on people signing up to one of those contracts?

Sarah Jackson, chief executive of Working Families, has said:

“Employers beware. Offering owner employee contracts—where employees effectively sell their employment rights for shares—is unlikely to deliver the highly motivated, engaged workforce you need.

Few men or women with family responsibilities would want such a contract”.

[Mel Stride]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way again. If the scheme is not voluntary, can he explain exactly who will be forced to take part in it?

[Ian Murray]

I suspect that we shall see two developments. We shall probably see an advertisement for employee ownership contracts in the first instance, and we shall probably see unscrupulous employers offering contracts on an employee-ownership basis to people when they feel that it will not be in the best interests for those people to be on normal full-time contracts. [Interruption.] Ministers are shouting “You cannot answer the question” from a sedentary position. I should like the Minister of State to come to the Dispatch Box and give a cast-iron guarantee that not one employee in the country, either in or out of work, will be forced to accept one of these contracts. I can assure him that that will not be the case.

Policy for Growth

Debate between Mel Stride and Ian Murray

Thursday 11th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

Let me start by congratulating the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) on securing this important debate. I must confess that I could listen to him all day, for two reasons: first, he is one of the most engaging speakers in the Chamber; and secondly, if he were to speak all day, I am sure he would eventually say something that I might agree with.

The international financial crisis has affected every Government the world over, and getting back to sustained economic growth is the only real way to reduce the deficit and clear the financial crisis for good. The problem with this Government is that their Budget and comprehensive spending review have resulted in a set of conditions that harm growth. I would like to mention a few aspects of that which I am seeing locally in my constituency. As someone who runs his own small business—I have done so since I left university—I should say that many of the points that I will make concern things that I have experienced myself.

The first aspect is business confidence, particularly the small business confidence which, as many Members have said, is so important to economic growth. Many small business owners in my constituency currently see a quadruple whammy coming from the Government, which is not just stopping potential growth but risks causing contraction in the economy, with a real danger of pushing us back into recession.

First, there is a greater degree of nervousness among small businesses’ customers, who are concerned for their jobs and those of their families. They are therefore spending less and see no light at the end of that particular tunnel. In fact, the Government’s own figures, published by the Office for Budget Responsibility, show that 500,000 public sector jobs will go as a result of decisions made by the Government, and of course PricewaterhouseCoopers has projected another 500,000 job losses in the private sector. Many commentators are saying that that may be slightly on the low side.

[Mel Stride]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Murray]

I will make some progress, if I may.

The instability of the job market is causing customers great uncertainty. All in all, they do not see the Government doing anything to assist in the job sector.

Secondly, such problems are always compounded by personal finance, which undoubtedly affects confidence in the small business sector. Products and services will be hit hard by any increase in VAT in January. I am disappointed that the hon. Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) is no longer in his place, because he mentioned cash flow for small businesses, which is a critical factor in how they operate. Many of them go under not because they are not profitable but because of cash-flow issues. One of the main effects on cash flow of what this Government have put in place will come from the increase in VAT in January.

Many people have forgotten the other hidden increase that the Government have imposed on people, which will hit confidence even further. They say that they are not introducing a jobs tax, but they are keeping the national insurance increase for employees, which will compound the problem of confidence in personal finances even further. Individual families see job insecurity, significant job cuts, increasing VAT and less pay in their pay packets, so bottom-up growth through the small business sector, and particularly the service sector, will be sluggish at best.

Thirdly, despite the warm words of the senior bankers whom we have all spoken to over the past few months, businesses and particularly small businesses are not able to borrow to enable growth. Not even in Edinburgh, which is at the forefront of financial services in Scotland and one of the biggest financial services centres in Europe, can small businesses access financial services.

To be slightly fair to the banks—I never thought I would say that in the Chamber—that may be partly a matter of perception. They tell Members that they have adequate funds to lend, but small businesses are not coming forward and creating demand. The Government and all Members have to do more to get rid of the perception that banks will not lend. While it still hangs around, small businesses will not approach banks and their business managers to access finance. Let us call the banks’ bluff. If they are telling us that the funding is there, let us all encourage small business to go and see their banks as soon as possible to have conversations about how they can borrow and therefore enable growth.

Fourthly, many businesses in my constituency rely on the public sector for contracts. If the public sector shrinks at the rate the Government wish, even though they want the private sector to take over, growth will be severely damaged by businesses not being able to access many billions of pounds of public sector contracts.