Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Debate between Meg Hillier and Nusrat Ghani

Wednesday 28th October 2026 Commons Chamber

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

The House will be determined to know how this Budget is going to benefit Harlow. Does my hon. Friend agree that the £100 direct payment into the bank accounts of Harlow residents will make a huge difference this winter? By the way, it will help over 39,000 households in council tax bands A to D.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I am surprised that the hon. Member failed to get the Chancellor to use the word “Harlow” multiple times during the Budget statement.

[Dame Meg Hillier]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Chris Vince)—I say that just to up his constituency’s mention count. Around 48,000 households in my constituency households will benefit from the council tax rebate for those in bands A to D. I am assuming the Government took this approach because it is a simple way of getting the money into people’s pockets, but how that works will need a lot of unpicking. It is an instructive figure, in fact, because people think that London’s streets are paved with gold, but one in two children in my constituency are living in poverty, it is among the top three for the pensioners deprivation index, and it has a very high level of deprivation overall, while there are also challenges with the cost of living.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dame Meg Hillier]

I have given way several times, and a lot of Members are waiting to speak.

Whitehall is often just too distant—not just physically and geographically, but in attitude—from communities and towns up and down the country. I always say that we should not make decisions about people without people. However good our civil service is—and I pay great tribute to the many civil servants I have quizzed over the years about public spending—there will still be a challenge if we do not have the right people around the table, and that may be because they just do not know what is going on in a geographical area.

Our mayors have a very important role, but if money is to be devolved to them, there needs to be very strong local accountability. Of course, the last Government abolished the Audit Commission, which I think is a great sadness, and we have seen huge challenges in local government audit. The Mayor of London has the strongest accountability, with 25 London Assembly members able to challenge him openly and regularly about his spending, and powers to delve into the detail, but mayors in other areas do not have that.

I would say to the Government and the mayors that there is very good reason to have very strong accountability. First, a mayor will want to prove to their constituents that they have spent money effectively, and to be transparent about that, so that when they come up for re-election, people know that their mayors are not frittering away their hard-earned tax pounds and that they are delivering the things they want. Secondly, if a mayor spends money well in their area, they might prove to the Government that they can get more bang for the taxpayer pound than Whitehall achieves by doing it from a distance. Dare I say it, but there may even be times when the Government of the day do not give quite enough money to deliver what was promised, and mayors need the figures to prove that they have been short-changed. In all those circumstances, we need a stronger accountability process, and I hope that we do not go so fast in the drive towards devolution that we do not have those checks and balances in place.

I am very pleased about the moves on cheaper energy and clean power. The Chancellor mentioned GB Grid, which is a start, but about 400 projects are needed to upgrade the grid, and I believe that GB Grid covers 10 or 11 of them, so there is still a huge challenge to get the grid up to speed to meet the target of net zero by 2050. I think the pledge to buy and build only when new technologies will lower bills and be connected to the grid may be an important driver in that area. We may want to quiz the Chancellor about that—as, I am sure, our sister Committee, the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee, will want to do with the relevant Ministers in due course. I welcome the energy cost reductions for businesses, because I think all Members across the Chamber have heard that businesses have been really struggling in that regard. I have also been pushing for the closure of the loophole on VAT for online marketplace sales, so I am pleased to see that.

On the face of it, this Budget looks as though it has done a good job, but the devil is of course in the detail, so I again put the Chancellor on warning that we will be looking through that detail over the next few weeks. We have the Office for Budget Responsibility before the Treasury Committee next week, alongside other economists, and we will have the Chancellor himself on 11 November, when we will have had a chance to go through all the figures in detail and can challenge him on what he has promised today and the promises for the future.

Overall, I think we must see cross-party support for the approach to support households in these challenging international times, when a lot of the things that buffet the Government are very difficult for them to control. We must support small businesses. Quite rightly, we all are lobbied a lot by our small businesses. People invest their energy in their businesses, and they need support. We need a long-term vision. Part of our challenge as scrutineers of the Government on the Committee corridor is to hold them to account for their 10-year plan—which we have yet to see—for reshaping the state and devolution. I again warn all Ministers sitting on the Front Bench that the Budget may feel good after the statement today, but we will be challenging them in detail about the money they are spending, whichever Committee they appear before.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the leader of the Liberal Democrats.

Points of Order

Debate between Meg Hillier and Nusrat Ghani

Tuesday 15th September 2026 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I understand that this issue is important to the hon. Lady, but she also knows, because of her experience, that it is not a matter for the Chair. She has most definitely got her point on the record, and no doubt those on the Treasury Front Bench will have noted it and will ensure that the right Department hears of it.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker, last week I met some of my constituents who were part of the Trans+ Solidarity Alliance lobby of Parliament. Unfortunately, when they were present, they overheard a passholder making negative comments about trans people. I am sure that you would agree that this House, the mother of Parliaments, should be welcoming to all people, particularly when they are on a mission to lobby their Members about issues that directly impact them. Is there any comment that you would wish to make about how we can ensure that passholders—we cannot control everybody—are reminded of the importance of courtesy and that this place is a place of debate and discussion, not for negative comments about groups of people?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

The hon. Lady has raised an important issue, but as she is far more experienced than even I am, she knows that this is not a matter for the Chair. If she wishes to pursue it, she can raise it with those in charge of the independent complaints and grievance scheme, but I do not wish to become involved in matters that do not involve the Chair.

Defence Investment Plan

Debate between Meg Hillier and Nusrat Ghani

Tuesday 30th June 2026 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the Chair of the Treasury Committee.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I have had the opportunity to look over defence equipment plans for the last 13 years, and have repeatedly seen—a profiling from over a decade—huge optimism about savings and efficiencies, which is how plans get across the line of affordability. Will the Secretary of State commit to ensuring that there is proper parliamentary scrutiny of the plan, through the Public Accounts Committee, the Defence Committee and, hopefully next week—if Ministers from both the Treasury and Ministry of Defence agree to attend—the Treasury Committee, at a meeting including Defence Committee colleagues?

Budget Resolutions

Debate between Meg Hillier and Nusrat Ghani

Wednesday 26th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dame Meg Hillier]

It is interesting that the Opposition are doubling down on the policy, which is humiliating people.

Let us be clear: the birth rate in this country has fallen year on year for the last three years. It is well below where it needs to be. I think that only Luton is at 2.1, which is about where the rate needs to be. Actually, that is a bit lower than where it needs to be. This is a real crisis for the country in the long term, so it is absolutely right that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor is investing in the future of Britain. Young people in my constituency may be poor, but there is no poverty of ambition. Children I met when I was elected 20 years ago are now doctors, barristers and enterprising businesspeople, in spite of the challenges they faced. Just think about the ones who did not get there because they could not overcome the challenges of deep-seated poverty. We should invest in our young people, and that is what this Government are doing, including through apprenticeships, the youth guarantee and the nine youth hubs in London, one of which is in my constituency.

I really welcome the fact that my right hon. Friend listened to the Treasury Committee on the gambling taxation regime. We are a cross-party Committee, but our report was unanimous that there was a real issue with the lower tax on online gambling because of the relative harm that it caused, compared with going to the races or popping along to a local betting shop. I very much welcome my right hon. Friend’s decision to change the gambling taxation regime; that will contribute to taking children out of poverty.

On the ISA changes, I caution my right hon. Friend. I hope that the Treasury is watching very closely the impact on mortgages and lending by building societies, because that was a concern in the evidence we heard. If we want to get people into their own homes through the building that will be going on, we need to make sure that mortgages are available to them, so I hope that the Treasury is in ongoing dialogue on that issue, despite the change having been made.

We need to recognise some of the challenges with green taxes. I have not had a chance to go through the Red Book in the time since the Chancellor sat down, but I very much welcome her bold and necessary decision to take on the challenge of the reduction in fuel duty as people move to electric vehicles. This has been a point of debate for at least the last decade or so. In my time on the Public Accounts Committee, we kept challenging the Treasury on how it would fill the gap, and my right hon. Friend has been bold and right to address the challenge. It is a difficult one to grapple with, but it is great that she has done so. We look forward to hearing more about that. On supporting people with the cost of living, the freeze on rail fares, keeping the bus fare cap and the ongoing freeze on fuel duty will help people get to work.

The increase in the minimum wage and the living wage are vital. In my constituency, some people work four jobs over seven days, just to make ends meet. Even if they are lucky enough to have a council tenancy, it is hard to make ends meet on those salaries. Going into private sector housing is completely unaffordable for those on that kind of income. Contrast that with people who work four days a week because they can afford to do so. I am not criticising them for that life choice, but that is the challenge that we face.

There has been a lot of discussion about a high-value property tax. In my constituency, around 1% of properties are worth over £2 million, and that is in central London. The Opposition might scream foul on this, but in London’s zones 1 and 2—my constituency is right on the edge of the City and 10 minutes from Liverpool Street—around 1% of people will face the surcharge. That is a small price to pay when families next door are living in the deepest poverty, as I have described. It is also great to see some movement on energy bills, which is having a really big impact.

There is a lot more detail in the Budget, which the Treasury Committee will look at over the next couple of weeks. We look forward to welcoming the Chancellor to the Committee on 10 December, when we will ask her to explain, but also challenge her on, the detail of her Budget, as is our proper constitutional responsibility.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the leader of the Liberal Democrats.

Devolution (Immigration) (Scotland) Bill

Debate between Meg Hillier and Nusrat Ghani

2nd reading
Friday 25th April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Seamus Logan]

This might be an opportunity for the hon. Member to catch her breath. She is making a number of claims about Ukrainian women and Scottish people, but I want to go back to something she said earlier about Stranraer and Cairnryan, which is a place I am familiar with as an Irish person and a guide. I just wanted to correct the record: Stranraer port closed many, many years ago. The example that you gave is completely impossible.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. Members should not use “you”. The hon. Member was told off twice earlier for using it, and he came and apologised to the Chair. I would not have mentioned it, were I not being accurate in making clear for the record that he had been inappropriate with his language.

[Dame Meg Hillier]

Unbelievable as it may seem to the hon. Gentleman, I was a Minister between 2007 and 2010. I was a child Minister, of course. [Laughter.] I can understand his confusion, but that was the case at the time, and it continued for some while, because I then dealt with the local Member of Parliament—by then I was in opposition—about the challenges of that particular route. As he will know, the route from Scotland to Larne is the shortest route that can be taken, so people would make that journey. I have done that journey and driven along the long and winding single-track route to get there. It is not somewhere to get stuck behind a lorry, for sure.

I was really demonstrating the point about the challenges of having multiple agencies. It is difficult enough with one Government, frankly. I spent over a decade on the Public Accounts Committee, looking at the problems of Whitehall, and even within one Government things do not always go smoothly as different agencies interact. To add an extra layer of complication seems to me something we would not want to see.

The police at that time were overstretched, and moving to Police Scotland did not help. That is not a criticism of that policy, although I know colleagues have strong feelings about that, but it did not mean there were suddenly, magically, more police officers who could be deployed differently because of the challenges in that area.

Water Bill

Debate between Meg Hillier and Nusrat Ghani

2nd reading
Friday 28th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. Before the hon. Lady responds to that intervention, I know it is Friday but you do not intervene on an intervention, and interventions are short. They are not speeches.

[Dame Meg Hillier]

I think my hon. Friend makes some important points. We have seen from citizens’ juries, including in Ireland, which has a well-worn route for using these for their referenda, that people do drop out and do not always attend, because life gets in the way. That is why we are elected: to make hard decisions and defend difficult issues. We cannot make the world like the land of milk and honey—certainly not after the inheritance we received from the last Government after 14 years of mismanagement.

We have very big challenges and we need to tackle them. It would put heavy pressure on citizens’ juries to do that. The key point here is that, whatever the best practice, the Bill does not go into the detail of it, so we cannot assume that the good practice that the hon. Member for North Herefordshire has highlighted from her constituency is necessarily what would apply—let alone the challenges that other hon. Members have raised.

Turning to the hon. Member for Bristol Central, I would be surprised that a member of her party is so willing to pass responsibility over, but then I look at what happened in Brighton when the Greens controlled Brighton council. I will put aside the rubbish collection issue and the infighting and look at the issue with the i360—the tower that is now a tourist attraction. The company behind it went bust with over £50 million of debt. It was the Green-run council that provided £36 million of public money to pay for that vanity project, and in the end taxpayers in Brighton and Hove were left £51 million out of pocket and Brighton and Hove council were left to pay £2 million a year for the foreseeable future.

I do not think we need to take any lectures from the Green party about how to manage public money, because when they have been in power, they cannot do it. No wonder they want to pass responsibility over to a citizens’ jury rather than take responsibility themselves.

I have been diverted, but I think it was useful. Before I move on to my next point, I will take one more diversion.

Budget Resolutions

Debate between Meg Hillier and Nusrat Ghani

Wednesday 30th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Meg Hillier]

It seems that the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee—this is something the hon. Gentleman and I have in common—hears promises made by Governments of different colours who do not always deliver as they should. He is absolutely right. In fact, the National Audit Office, at my request, pulled together a document looking at compensation schemes. They are often put together differently—although these particular schemes have now been set—and some do not deliver as well as others. Windrush is also in that mix. This is important, and perhaps the hon. Gentleman is offering his services to the Chancellor to ensure that that money gets out of the door. Of course, his Committee will be examining these programmes as time goes on.

It gives me great pleasure to respond to the Budget today and to welcome a Labour Chancellor to her place. I wish her well, and I wish the Labour Government well, of course. I want to see these results on the ground in my constituency. As I say, the Chancellor will appear in front of our Committee, without fear or favour, over the coming years and we will be challenging her and her Ministers to make sure that they stick to the promises that she has laid out today.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

We now come to the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Sir Ed Davey.