Renters (Reform) Bill (Fourth sitting)

Matthew Pennycook Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 16th November 2023 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

May I welcome our three witnesses to the first of several sessions this afternoon in which we are taking expert evidence on the Bill? We are now in public and our proceedings are being broadcast. Perhaps it would be easiest if the witnesses introduced themselves.

Liz Davies: My name is Liz Davies. I am a barrister specialising in housing and homelessness law at Garden Court chambers; I also act as a legal consultant to the Renters’ Reform Coalition.

Giles Peaker: I am Giles Peaker, a solicitor and partner at Anthony Gold solicitors and a housing law specialist.

Simon Mullings: I am Simon Mullings, co-chair of the Housing Law Practitioners Association. The experience I bring to this panel is 20-odd years of housing law practice, which includes representing tenants in possession proceedings on court duty in seven or eight different London courts across the years.

[Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)]

Q135 I thank each of you for coming to give evidence to us. I have two questions. The first relates to the amended grounds for possession, which we have discussed numerous times in previous evidence sessions. There are concerns about the amended or new grounds, particularly the de facto no-fault grounds that remain. Can you give us your view on some of those? Should they be removed entirely, made discretionary, or tightened in a way that might better protect residents from loopholes, abuse and exploitation by a minority of landlords?

[The Chair]

Who wants to go first?

Liz Davies: May I start and deal in a little detail with ground 8A? I will then say a couple of things about 1 and 1A, but my colleagues can develop that. There is a great deal of concern about ground 8A, and the “three sets of rent arrears in three years and you’re out” ground. There is a concern that that is a mandatory ground and that it is punitive. There can be an awful lot of reasons why people in insecure employment or on zero-hours contracts, or just because of life events, can slip into arrears—and then make them up, of course—that get as far as two months. If that happens to you three times, you know that you will be subject to a mandatory possession order unless the landlord has kindly told you that you are not. It is punitive and unnecessary because we have ground 8. I would like to see ground 8 made discretionary, but we have it currently as a mandatory ground and we have the discretionary grounds 10 and 11 for rent arrears. I think there is a worry about unintended consequences, because once a tenant is in that third set of rent arrears, you have to ask what incentive they have to remedy that position if they think they are inevitably going to lose their home. I am very concerned about ground 8A and would like to see it omitted altogether.

The courts have plenty of flexibility to deal with tenants who persistently do not pay their rent: such tenants can be subject to an outright order under any of grounds 8, 10 or 11. If ground 8A is to remain, much the best thing would be to make it discretionary, so that at least the court could look at whether this has happened inadvertently to somebody—whether they are now back in a reasonable financial position, can pay their current rent, have made up the arrears and should be able to stay in their home, paying rent to their landlord, which is of course a good thing for the landlord. The courts could enforce that. Equally, the courts are relatively wise: they can spot quite well a tenant who has no intention of paying rent in the future, and they can make an outright possession order if it is a discretionary ground. A discretionary ground is not a “get out of jail free” card for the tenant, by any means. I would like to see ground 8A either omitted altogether or made discretionary.

On grounds 1 and 1A, the deep concern is the short period of time that a tenant is protected—the six-month protected period. The Renters’ Reform Coalition and I would like to see that being much longer, because the six-month period merely reflects the current assured shorthold tenancy regime. The other big concern—I will not go into the detail, but you can ask me—is of course the extent to which a landlord may have no real intention of selling or moving back in: they simply wait three months and re-let. There has to be much greater provision about abuse.

Giles Peaker: I totally agree with Liz’s points. On 1A and 1B, the three-month period and the potential fine for breaking the three-month period both need to be looked at. If you consider what London rents are, the potential fine is actually less than three months’ rent, so there is an issue there. As it is currently drafted, the three-month period also appears to run from the point when the landlord has given notice and the tenant has left—it does not apply to a period after a court has made a possession order—so if the landlord brought possession proceedings and a possession order was made, they could then re-let the next day, with no penalty, even though the possession proceedings were on the basis that a family member was moving in or they were intending to sell.

I would also add a few words of caution—I am afraid that this is anecdotal, but it is certainly what I have gathered—from various practitioners in Scotland. There is a degree of gaming going on. There certainly have been a few tribunals in which a landlord who had supposedly been intending to sell most certainly did not and had never set the process in train—ditto in the case of a family member intending to move in. There is a question of what the evidential requirements would be for a landlord to establish that they were intending to sell, that they were in the process of trying to sell, or that they or the family member were intending to move in as their only or principle home. A simple statement that that is their intention cannot really be sufficient when the consequences for the tenant are quite severe. There is an option to use this as a sort of get-out for the abolition of section 21. The three-month period is too short.

On 8A, I simply echo what Liz said. If you are in a position in which, on literally three days—three separate, individual days—over three years, you find that you have slipped into two months’ rent arrears, even if you could make them up the very next day, you still face mandatory possession proceedings. That is extremely draconian. There would be no appeal to the courts’ understanding that your rent payments were otherwise perfect apart from those occasions, because it is a mandatory ground. It needs to be addressed.

[The Chair]

I am sorry to interrupt, but we have only 45 minutes and then I will cut you off even if you are mid-sentence. Saying that you agree with one another does not add to the Committee’s general understanding, so say different things and do not feel that all three of you have to answer all the questions.

Please go on. I rudely interrupted; I apologise.

Simon Mullings: Not at all. The second thing about 8A is that it is not just inapt; it is inept because it will not do what it is designed to do, which is to stop the gaming of ground 8. First of all, in my experience—I hope this is useful to the Committee—I have only seen one example in 25 years of that occurring. On that example, the tenant then became subject to a suspended possession order under ground 11, which was a perfectly adequate way of dealing with it.

It is inept because it is perfectly possible to game ground 8A anyway. Let us assume that people do want to try and game it, but I really do not think people are doing that for a moment. If you get into two months or more’s arrears on a first occasion and then on a second occasion, you would think perhaps you should bring your arrears down to less than two months at that point. Well, not really; not if you want to game the system. You keep your arrears at two months or more so you do not trigger the third occasion. Then, when your landlord brings you to court, that is the moment at which you then pay off the arrears and try to game avoiding a possession order. So it is perfectly possible to game 8A anyway. It is not just inapt; it is not going to do what it is supposed to do.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q Briefly, to follow up on clause 6, which revolves around challenging the amount or increase of rent, we have concerns that even with the expanded right to challenge, the tribunal system will not provide sufficient protection. Do you have any thoughts on how, leaving aside other options, that process might be tightened? For example, should the tribunal’s ability to award rents higher than what the landlord specifies be taken out of the Bill? Should there be other protections that allow renters to leave if they are served with that higher notice? Should they have another section 13 notice? I am keen to hear your views on how we might tighten clause 6.

Simon Mullings: A simple amendment to do exactly what you are saying, which is so that the tribunal does not set a higher rent than the landlord is asking for, would be extremely welcome. The reason for that is that if somebody comes to me asking whether they should challenge the rent that has been set by their landlord, I am bound to advise them that, unlikely as it is, the tribunal could set a higher rent. That has a real chilling effect on somebody’s willingness to then challenge a rent. It has been in section 14 of the Housing Act 1988 since it came into force in 1989, but this is a real opportunity to cure what seems to be a rather bizarre anomaly. I am not really sure why it was there in the first place, but it has this chilling effect. Also, section 13 challenges will become much more important when the Bill passes.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Jacob Young)]

Q Thank you to our panel of witnesses. We have spoken a few times about ground 8A. What would you say to someone who said that it is unfair for landlords to suffer multiple breaches of rent arrears? And on a completely separate thing from ground 8A, we are introducing a new ombudsman to the private rented sector. How do you think that ombudsman can work? Would you say that it can help to reduce the pressure on the court system?

Liz Davies: I will start with the point about multiple breaches of rent arrears. I think that the answer to that is to trust the wisdom of the courts. The courts have the mandatory ground at the moment under ground 8—again, the concern is gaming and you have heard Simon’s answer on that—and they have discretionary grounds for possession under grounds 10 and 11. A well-advised landlord who wants to ensure that they can get a possession order from the type of tenant you have just described will ensure that they plead all the rent arrears grounds available to them, including ground 8A, if you put that through.

When you get to the court hearing, courts are perfectly capable of identifying somebody who has got into arrears in the past but has made them up or is in a position to pay current rent and to pay off the arrears within a reasonable period. Courts deal with people in financial hardship day in, day out; they are very good at scrutinising budgets and knowing whether or not an offer to pay is realistic. They are equally good at looking at a rent arrears history, no doubt prodded by the landlord, and saying, “Hang on a minute. You’ve just told us when your payslips were and you were not paying rent at that time. You really have been abusing the system.” And they will make an outright possession order.

Case law on suspended possession orders on the basis of rent arrears requires that a suspended possession order, as an alternative to an outright order, can be made only where the court is satisfied, first, that the current rent will be met in the future, and secondly, that if there are arrears at the date of hearing, those arrears will be paid off over a reasonable period. There is some case law, depending on a landlord’s circumstances, about what a reasonable period is. Courts are very sympathetic to the point that private landlords in particular need that money paid back to them, so they are not going to approve an unrealistic repayment offer. I think that all the appropriate safeguards are there in the courts now. Of course, they are not currently used by private landlords because of section 21, which means that they do not need to. I think that those safeguards are there against the scenario that you have just suggested.

On the ombudsman, I will leave Simon and Giles to develop that point. All I would say is that an ombudsman is a very good thing. Access to justice through the courts is also a good thing. It would be wrong if some of the matters that courts deal with on behalf of tenants are then solely dealt with by the ombudsman. You have to have two opportunities.

Giles Peaker: Briefly on the ombudsman, in principle it is a very good thing, but it generally tends to depend on the ombudsman. It really is a question of somebody actually being able and willing to take a serious and proactive approach. I think that there has been quite a market change in the social housing ombudsman over the last five or six years, and performances have really turned around. An ombudsman is not necessarily an answer in and of itself, but it can be a very good thing and, in the right hands, it can be extremely useful.

Simon Mullings: We heard Mr Blakeway’s land grab earlier in the week—he fancies a crack at it. As Giles said, Mr Blakeway has done extremely well in the social housing sector, and, as Liz said, the ombudsman will do well in the jobs that it can do. It is not fair for landlords to face that situation, but it is also not fair for landlords to face a ground for possession that, whether they use it or not, will incentivise tenants to stop paying rent. I really believe that that is what 8A will do in certain circumstances.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jacob Young]

Q We heard evidence this morning that suggested that the courts are currently overwhelmed and that the abolition of section 21 would increase contested cases. That is not your assessment?

Giles Peaker: I do not see that it would necessarily increase contested cases. It would inevitably involve the process that leads to an initial hearing—those are 10-minute hearings on a list day. I really do not see why it would increase the number of contested hearings, because unless there is a defence, the possession order is highly likely to be made at the first hearing. On at least some of these new grounds, if the ground is made out, there is no defence. So I am unsure of the amount of additional burden.

Liz Davies: I think that is the point. Currently, under section 21, landlords can get possession on the papers. There is no court hearing: the papers go in; the tenant has the right to respond; the district judge considers on the papers whether or not there is a defence. If there is no defence, the possession order is made; if there is a defence, it is put over to a hearing. Once section 21 is abolished, the starting point is that there will be a five or 10-minute hearing, which is usually about eight weeks after issue. That is about the same period of time as for the paperwork procedure I just described. At that hearing, the question for the court is, “Is the case genuinely disputed on grounds that appear to be substantial?” That is set out in the rules.

The great thing about that hearing is that there are housing duty solicitors at court. If a tenant does not have legal advice or advice from a citizens advice bureau beforehand, they turn up and talk to a duty solicitor—I am sitting next to one of them. Duty solicitors give realistic advice. If there is a defence—if the landlord has got it wrong—the duty solicitor will go in front of the court and say, “Actually, there is a defence,” and it gets adjourned for a trial, and that is right and proper. But if there is not a defence, the duty solicitor will say, “I’m sorry, there is absolutely nothing that can be said legally to the court,” and a possession order will be made.

One of the important things about advice, and indeed early advice, is that tenants get realistic advice, so they know whether they have any realistic chance of prolonging the proceedings, and so forth. In many ways, a hearing with a duty solicitor will be beneficial to landlords, and, as Giles says, it takes about the same length of time. There is lots to be said about county courts’ efficiencies and inefficiencies, but I do not think that is the problem.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q The Government dropped 111 pages of amendments on us on Tuesday evening, which is not particularly good practice—I will put that on the record—so you may not have had a chance to look through them, but if you have, do you have any thoughts about whether they address some of the deficiencies in the Bill that we and others have highlighted? My reading of the decent homes standard amendment is that it does most of what we want it to do; my reading of the “No DSS” amendment is that it does not. I wonder if you could flesh out a couple of the amendments that have been introduced and whether they do what is needed.

Simon Mullings: Two of us were involved in Rakusen v. Jepsen, and we were very happy about amendment 21—thank you very much for that; Christmas has come early. I understand that Shelter is looking very carefully at the “No DSS” amendment. I do not want to try to drive a tank on its lawn; I suspect that it will write in with any concerns it has about that. The principle, though, is extremely welcome. Forgive me, Mr Pennycook, but you mentioned another one.

Liz Davies: The decent homes standard amendment.

Simon Mullings: There was too much to read overnight, I am afraid, so I do not have anything particular to say on that.

Liz Davies: I was very pleased to see it, in principle. I am reserving my position on the wording. I am sorry; I am in the same position you are in, Mr Pennycook, from Tuesday night.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q Maybe I could invite you all to share any further thoughts you have down the line.

Liz Davies: We will write in.

[The Chair]

If you do, please write to the entire Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)]

Q I want to pick up on the point about delays in the court process. We heard this morning that the president of the Law Society is concerned about the lack of access to legal aid and the fact that, because so many people are unable to access it, they will be disadvantaged in the court process. My first question is, what are your thoughts on that?

My second question is about clause 18 and local authorities no longer having a duty to help people when they have been made homeless. Shelter has said that the Bill does not specify when help to prevent homelessness should be available to private renters. Do you have a view on that and how it could be addressed?

Liz Davies: First, housing legal aid is absolutely in crisis. The number of housing legal aid providers is diminishing each year. The Law Society has an amazing and heartbreaking interactive map where you can press on a county and discover that there are no housing legal aid providers or one of them in the area. Obviously, London is slightly better served. That is letting down everybody who cannot afford to pay for housing legal advice.

That needs fixing, and it needs an injection of resources—there is no doubt about that—but that is not a reason why there would be difficulties for landlords in obtaining possession under these new proceedings, not least because the Government have put this money into the duty solicitor scheme. Where there are no housing legal aid providers and a tenant turns up at court having been unable to find advice in advance, they will see the duty solicitor. While Richard Miller is absolutely right to be concerned about the sustainability of the housing legal aid sector—we all think it could collapse in a few years—this particular area of getting advice about possession is covered by the duty solicitor scheme. That is the first thing.

Homelessness is covered partly in clause 18 and partly in schedule 1, but this is one of the unintended consequences that the Committee should look at. The current position is that somebody is threatened with homelessness if they are likely to be homeless within 56 days. If they have a valid section 21 notice, which is two months or 56 days, they are threatened with homelessness. It is deemed. All that a local authority has to do is look at the notice and say, “Yes, that’s valid,” and that means that it owes the tenant what is called a prevention duty—a duty to help them to prevent the homelessness—and spends the next two months trying to help them to find somewhere else to live. That is a good thing, because if it works, it averts the crisis of homelessness. It means that someone can move from their previous tenancy into their new one.

As a result of the abolition of section 21, this Bill retains the definition of threatened with homelessness within 56 days, but takes away the deeming provision whereby if you have a notice of possession within 56 days, you are deemed to be threatened with homelessness. If that was reinserted, if a tenant received what would be a section 8 notice requiring them to leave within two months, you would be back in the straightforward position that they go along to a local authority, the local authority would say, “Yes, you are threatened with homelessness. We don’t need to make further inquiries or think about it any more. We accept that we owe you a prevention duty and we will help you to find somewhere else to live.”

That is absolutely the best thing, because it front-loads all the looking for somewhere else to live while a tenant still has a roof over their head, rather than waiting for the crisis moment when they have to go into interim accommodation or end up on the streets. I urge the Committee to think about an amendment that requires that section 8 notices count as deemed homelessness. I know there have been some drafts flying around, so the work has been done.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q I have three questions, if we can squeeze them in—I will get in as many as I can. Do tenants have enough power to enforce the measures in this Bill via rent repayment orders, and if not, where might we seek to reasonably apply them where they do not apply as the Bill is currently drafted?

Simon Mullings: Rent repayment orders create, as I have said before to officials in DLUHC, an army of motivated enforcers, because you have tenants who are motivated to enforce housing standards to do with houses in multiple occupancy, conditions and all sorts of things. There are clearly opportunities to expand the rent repayment order scheme, perhaps to sit alongside existing enforcement measures to do with offences. I am sorry that I do not have really specific references for you, but certainly expanding the rent repayment order scheme could in principle take some burden off local authorities in terms of their obligations, which would be an extremely important measure.

Giles Peaker: Was the question about enforcement of RROs or about the use of RROs in enforcing?

[Matthew Pennycook]

I suppose it was about their application—I think Mr Mullings has answered on whether they should be expanded in principle.

Giles Peaker: I would agree. I think that since the Housing and Planning Act 2016 they have been a success.

Simon Mullings: You would expect a legal aid lawyer to say that it would be great if legal aid were available to help tenants to bring RROs.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q Can I ask about the portal? At the moment it is a broad framework of powers, and we think that there are requirements that should be woven into it. I am thinking, for example, of all the preconditions and requirements surrounding section 21 that will fall away. Do you think there should be other information as a condition in that portal that goes much further, such as previous applications for grounds of possession, or even rent levels under previous tenancies? How much information should be transparent and available to tenants, in your view, on the portal?

Simon Mullings: I am tempted to say, “As much as possible.” For example, with ground 1 or 1A, if it were decided that post-possession order information was needed to ensure that they operate correctly, the portal is an ideal way of dealing with that. Very often, information relating to tenancies is a cause of disputes in possession proceedings—all the time. You have mentioned the conditions that attach to a section 21 notice at the moment; it will be extremely advantageous to landlords and to tenants, in an information and communication sense, to be able to essentially deal with those through a transparent portal.

Giles Peaker: To very quickly follow up on that, there is certainly the dropping of consequences for not providing gas safety certificates, energy performance certificates and so on. Everything except the deposit has effectively been dropped. Those are very important documents that are important for maintaining housing standards, so there need to be some consequences, other than a hypothetical prosecution by the Health and Safety Executive, for failing to provide that. Those kinds of things do need to be in there.

[Ms Buck]

Q I want to ask your views on the amendment to ground 14 on antisocial behaviour. What safeguards do you think would need to be incorporated to ensure that, for example, that does not lead to vulnerable people—people with mental health problems, or those experiencing domestic violence and so forth—being at risk?

Liz Davies: The change from “likely” to “capable” is a worry. Ground 14 remains discretionary; I made the point about the wisdom of the courts, and one would hope that, where it is a case of domestic abuse, or a case of mental health, and so forth, the courts would have the wisdom to see that that person was not at fault. However, I do not see any need to reduce the threshold. If antisocial behaviour is such that a private landlord needs to get their tenant out because of the effect that that behaviour is having—usually on the neighbours but sometimes on the landlord themselves—then it is going to cross the threshold of “likely to cause”. I do not see the point in lowering it.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

We will now have a series of quick evidence sessions of 15 minutes each with a series of learned witnesses, the first of whom is Ben Leonard, senior remote organiser and policy and research officer at ACORN, the union. Mr Leonard, will you introduce yourself?

Ben Leonard: My name is Ben Leonard. I work at ACORN, a community and tenants’ union. We represent thousands of private renters across the country.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q As a tenants’ union, you are in a unique position to give us some insight into the broad question of whether the Bill strikes the right balance between the interests of landlords and tenants. Can we open with that?

Ben Leonard: What my experience working with tenants and addressing their issues has taught me is that there is a massive imbalance of power between landlords and tenants, which leads to tenants being too afraid to speak up about repairs or harassment. The issue of no-fault evictions is central to that imbalance of power. If people know that a landlord can turf them out of their property and potentially make them homeless with just a couple of months’ notice, they will not speak up about things that need to be addressed, such as repairs. I am sure you are all familiar with the terrible condition of a lot of private housing in this country. In the case of harassment, including sexual harassment, we see tenants just grin and bear it because the stress of having to find a new property within two months is too much.

The Bill could be transformative for tenants. It could offer dignity and security to millions of renters who up until now have been denied that. But I am sorry to say that in its current form the Bill fails to address the fundamental problems that renters face. If a landlord can effectively pretend to need to sell or move into their property and turf out the tenants, we will still have no-fault evictions. If landlords can raise rents past what their tenants can afford, in practice we will still have no-fault evictions. If a landlord can send a tenant an eviction notice as little as four months into their tenancy, with just two months to find somewhere new, unfortunately the Bill will fail to give tenants the secure housing that they desperately need.

[Jacob Young]

Q Thank you for your evidence. How do you think the Bill will improve the experience for tenants? We have discussed section 21. Do you think that abolishing section 21 will give tenants more confidence in going for new rental agreements?

Ben Leonard: As long as the loopholes that I have mentioned are ironed out and the Bill is strengthened in that way, it will massively shift that balance of power and give renters the confidence that they need to come forward. We are a tenants’ union, so we use our strength in numbers to put pressure on a landlord to make repairs and things like that, but it should not have to be that way. A tenant should be able to complain about repairs and get them dealt with in a reasonable timeframe. Often they are just too afraid to complain. I am not saying that every single landlord is a demon, but, as things are at the moment, the system allows bad landlords to treat people horrendously, with very little recourse for tenants. If the changes that I have outlined are made in the Bill, it could be really transformative for tenants.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

We will now hear from Chloe Field.

Chloe Field: Thank you for having me. I am Chloe Field. I am the vice-president for higher education at the National Union of Students, which represents students and students’ unions across the country on various issues facing students right now.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q Thank you, Ms Field, for coming to give evidence to us. I have two related questions, which are quite broad, to get us into the issue. Do you think the Bill as it stands takes sufficient account of the particular needs of every aspect of the student market, which is not uniform? There are different people starting courses at different dates and people renting different types of houses. Do you think it takes account of that? Then, specifically on the Government amendment that was tabled on Tuesday for a new mandatory ground for possession for student houses in multiple occupation, do you have any concerns about that? How workable do you think that is?

Chloe Field: I do not think it takes sufficient account of the student rental market. People forget how unique and diverse students are and the student rental market is. As you just mentioned, students do not always do their courses in the typical September to June time. We have postgraduate researchers who study and work throughout the year. We also have mature students and students who have families and who will live in properties with non-students. There are things there that need to be taken into account regarding students in the Bill.

We also have the fact that the student rental market is very precarious. Renting in that market is rushed; you are expected to sign a contract about nine months before you move. That means that students end up having to pay really high prices because there is such a rush and people just accept the first house they find. It also means you cannot do sufficient research into the house you are about to sign the contract for. For example, is there mould? Is the quality of the house any good? Those are the unique factors of the student rental market.

In terms of the student exemption, our position has always been that it is incredibly dangerous. It sets a precedent that students will not be afforded the same rights as other renters and sets a further precedent for any future reforms and future exemptions for students. Like I said before, students are not a homogeneous group. They are not just 18 to 21-year-olds doing an undergraduate degree. They come in all types and different forms. It is one thing to make an exemption for purpose-built student accommodations, which is a type of accommodation, but it is another thing to create an exemption for a demographic of people who are studying. We are worried about that.

Also, the reasoning is that landlords are threatening to leave the market. As the previous witness said, landlords should not be renting in a market where they cannot accept that there are slight reforms and accountability for landlords. We consistently see exploitative landlords in the student market. I do not think we should be left threatened by those rogue landlords who cannot accept any form of regulation. Those are the main things on the student exception, but we accept that if there is that exception, it has to be carefully curated to fit the student rental market.

[Lloyd Russell-Moyle]

Q The Government have tabled an amendment that would create a ground 4A, which is what you were just talking about there. Have you had time to look at that and do you think it is tightly or too broadly drafted? Are there particular things, such as requiring accommodations to be rented by the university or something, that might give that level of protection, rather than it just being that there happen to be students in that house?

Chloe Field: If I remember it correctly, it is good that the amendment specifically acknowledges term times and stuff like that, but it specifies a certain time in the year and, as I said before, not all students fit into term time. It does not sufficiently recognise that different types of students rent in different ways; they are not a homogeneous group of people. Some students live with non-students and families, and it does not fully recognise that.

An idea we have floated is if there is an exemption, it should potentially be done like a council tax exemption: HMOs with a certain percentage of students are exempt from council tax. We think that kind of specification will be really important. Without more specification about the exemption, for a lot of students, especially those living in family homes, there will be the threat of back-door evictions if they have started their studies.

Your idea about universities renting out accommodation is really good. It would provide a bit more accountability if the institution that provides the education and has a form of duty of care is responsible for the accommodation. I think that is really important, but if that is the case, we would have to take it further. Right now, prices for university-owned accommodation are going up. Universities are trying to bring in more and more students to make more money because their incomes are so precarious right now, and that is not sustainable. We would have to look at the higher education model as a whole if we were thinking of doing anything like that.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

Surely not!

We have 45 minutes for this panel.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q I have two questions, the first of which relates to standards. The Government have tabled an amendment introducing a version of the decent homes standard. I wondered what your thoughts were on that and, importantly, on the ability of local authorities to enforce it. I am thinking of part 3 of the Bill, which will put a general duty on local authorities in a number of areas. If we introduce the decent homes standard in the way that the Government have proposed, will it materially improve residences, and will local authorities be able to enforce it effectively?

Linda Cobb: In its current format, a property is classed as being decent if it is free from category 1 hazards as defined in HHSRS. The decent homes standard is linked to HHSRS, and many landlords and tenants do not really understand HHSRS. It is complex.

[The Chair]

Sorry, but what is HHSRS?

Linda Cobb: The housing health and safety rating system. It is a tool that local authorities use, and a fundamental part of the decent homes standard.

Based on that, HHSRS was reviewed recently. It has gone through a two-year robust review, looking at how it is enforced, what will be included in it and how it will be altered. One of the workstreams in the review looked at the guidance for landlords and tenants. That review is now complete but has not come into force yet. As the decent homes standard relies on HHSRS and we need users to engage with it, it is really important that the reviewed HHSRS comes into force as soon as possible, so that enforcement teams and training providers such as DASH can embed it and get used to it, and so that landlords can get used to the tool as well. The decent homes standard is another layer of enforcement, which really goes to the point that local authority enforcement teams are lacking appropriately skilled and resourced multidisciplinary teams. There is lots of information there.

Finally, when we are looking at decent homes standards, we need to learn from the electrical safety regulations and the smoke and carbon monoxide regulations. When they came into force, they created huge spikes in demand: you could not get an electrical insulation condition report because there were not enough electricians around. You could not get hold of carbon monoxide detectors, which needed to be in every rental property, because there was not the supply of them. We need to learn lessons when looking at decent homes standards as well.

Roz Spencer: Could I just add, from the point of view of how things work out in the shadow private rented sector, that the proposal in the Bill that enforcement teams have the right to go and inspect properties proactively, without having to rely on complaints, is important and welcome? Particularly in the shadow sector, tenants are quite unlikely to report and complain because of their fear of consequences, so even if it does not happen, the fact that it can be concluded that an enforcement team is acting on intelligence proactively and the tenant has not necessarily complained is a helpful protection for renters.

Samantha Stewart: On the enforcement of standards, it is really important to add that one of the main findings from the Scotland research was that even if the law changes, it has limited effect without proper enforcement. Despite the changes, that research told us that tenants living in poor conditions still struggle to access local authority enforcement, leaving them without any other form of redress.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q Do I take it from your answers that it is partly a resourcing point, but it is not just resourcing; it is the skills and capacity?

Linda Cobb: It is, yes. Enforcement teams across the country are producing some fantastic, life-changing results for tenants; however, they are doing so in a very firefighting, reactive way. This Bill and the decent homes standard do not change that—they do not magically change the fact that those teams do not have the staff or the training ability. Going back to what Sam said, DLUHC commissioned a report in 2022 that explored local authority enforcement and concluded that capacity and skills shortages in enforcement teams can undermine any potential gains from legislation and new powers.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q On a completely different issue, we have spent a lot of time discussing chapter 1 of part 1—reforms to the tenancy structure, grounds for possession and so on—and relatively less on part 2, the ombudsman and the portal. Could you give us your general views on what the Bill does, on whether it is prescriptive enough and on what either or both of those things should look like in practice?

Samantha Stewart: We strongly welcome the provisions in the Bill, particularly on the property portal. We believe that it will create an essential tool for the PRS to drive up standards and improve landlord compliance, supporting enforcement teams and also supporting landlords to understand their rights and responsibilities. This is something that the foundation has been calling for, for some time. As some of you will know, we funded a report called “The Evolving Private Rented Sector”, by Julie Rugg and David Rhodes, which was published in 2018 and called for a national landlord register.

As an important addition, that research also recommended ways in which the portal can work. One of those recommendations, which we support very strongly and which you heard about earlier today from Jacky Peacock, was for an independent property assessment. That assessment could confirm compliance with safety and other relevant checks on the property, and would also be required to be submitted to the property portal before the property can be let out. One of our beliefs is that the property assessment, alongside the portal, will help to shift the burden of compliance somewhat from overstretched local authorities to landlords and the property portal itself.

Roz Spencer: This may be a statement of the obvious, but Safer Renting recently pulled together the best estimate it could from published data about the incidence of offences under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977. Why did we do that? Because nobody else does it and there is no reliable centrally held Government data. This goes into a massively controversial space. People are always arguing on both sides of the fence: “Is this a big problem? Is this not a big problem?”

The absence of data fundamentally undermines the process of good policymaking and being able to identify, for example, the unintended consequences or omissions in legislation. It also undermines enforcement, which I think my colleagues will speak to more eloquently. Having big data is so important. Otherwise, how can you legislate, and how can you know the impact of your measures? When the public finances are so stretched—as we have heard from Linda, there is a problem with skill shortages and capacity in enforcement teams—you really need to have slick systems. That is what a well-designed portal needs to offer: a slick system that will support something that is really stretched for resources and needs systemic support desperately.

Samantha Stewart: Do you want me to take the question about the ombudsman?

[The Chair]

I think we have moved on. Let’s crack on with the Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

We theoretically have until 4.15 pm, but it is unlikely that we will use all that time. If we finish earlier, we can all go off and have a cup of tea. Mr Munro, could you introduce yourself for the record?

James Munro: My name is James Munro. I am head of the National Trading Standards estate and letting agency team. I want to put it on the record that we are grant funded by the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, and we also receive funding from the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology.

[Matthew Pennycook]

Q I have two quick questions. The National Residential Landlords Association has called for the selective licensing of landlords to be abolished. Do you think it falls away if the portal operates in a particular way, or will elements of selective licensing still need to be in place to augment the portal if the local area in question chooses that? I am thinking of space standards and other things that the portal might not necessarily cater to.

Secondly, is the Bill missing something by not incorporating any regulation of property agents? Are we missing an opportunity to incorporate the recommendations set out by Lord Best’s working group in or alongside this legislation in some form?

James Munro: The first part of the question is a very good one, and I am not sure I am going to be able to give you an answer. I think the answer is probably yes and no, or somewhere in between. It is very difficult. It is one of those things where time will tell. Selective licensing schemes can bring benefits, but they are also a rather blunt tool in some respects, so I think it is a mixed bag. Possibly yes, that could happen.

Again, to be transparent, I sat on the working group with Lord Best where the regulation of property agents was debated. I think regulating property agents would be a good thing. When the public deal with professional people responsible for significant assets or significant issues in their life, they are, generally speaking, licensed or regulated in some way. As things stand, there is quite a mixed bag of regulation that applies to estate and letting agents—collectively, property agents. For example, the regulatory regime applying to estate agents is completely different from the regulatory regime that applies to letting agents, and I think bringing them together would be a good thing. Obviously, it would be expensive and would probably require another public body to be set up. There are issues about who would take on that role, but in theory I think that is a good thing.

[Jacob Young]

Q I am interested in your view on the principle of blanket bans and the measures we are taking in the Bill to stop them.

James Munro: Blanket bans are a good thing on paper, but in practice they can be very difficult to enforce. Obviously, the enforcement is where I am coming from with this. That is what we do with estate and letting agents at the moment, and with landlords in respect of the Tenant Fees Act 2019. We are the leading enforcement authority under the Estate Agents Act 1979 and the Tenant Fees Act. It is very tricky when you start putting blanket bans on things—for example, on saying, “No pets”, “No children”, or “No DSS”—because ultimately it is up to the landlord to decide who he or she wants in the property. It is very difficult to prove that that decision has been taken to directly discriminate against somebody with a pet, with children or in receipt of benefits.

While I am on that subject, I think the legislation would benefit from always including the words “prospective tenant” when dealing with issues around discrimination. Clearly, at the point at which someone is being discriminated against, they are not normally a tenant—they might well be a tenant at some stage, but at that point they would be a prospective tenant. It is important to have consistency throughout the legislation in that respect.