Matthew Offord
Main Page: Matthew Offord (Conservative - Hendon)Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill
Matthew Offord Excerpts(11 years, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Maria Miller
My hon. Friend will know that there is already no legal requirement for consummation. Our provisions will mean that adultery stays as it is and that couples will have the opportunity to cite unreasonable behaviour, as do many already. The issues that he raises are dealt with very well in that way.
As I was saying, there is no single view on equal marriage from religious organisations. I also know that some colleagues in the House feel that they cannot agree with the Bill for principled religious reasons, and I entirely respect that stance. I do not think that it is the role of the Government to tell people what to believe, but I do think that Parliament and the state have a responsibility to treat people fairly.
Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)
Will the Minister take this early opportunity to confirm that the opponents of the Bill, including many hundreds of my constituents, are not homophobic, not bigots and not barking?
Simon Hughes
I have apologised to him both publicly and privately. I was on a platform with him the other day, and he was very generous to me and supported me. We have worked together on many occasions. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will accept that.
Other countries do these things much more easily than we do. In other countries, couples have a civil ceremony and then a faith ceremony. It would have been much better to start in that way, but it is too late to do that now, not least given the position of the established Church. I hope, therefore, that we will give the Bill a Second Reading today, but then work on the areas that, in my view, are not yet in a fit state to be enacted.
The Bill ought to be amended to make it clear that the principal purpose is to provide for equal civil marriage for gay and straight couples and for others to opt in if the Churches and other denominations so wish, but that is not how the Bill is drafted. The Bill ought to make it clearer that we are not seeking to redefine traditional marriage as previously understood in custom and law. That would be helpful to Church communities and others. I have talked to many in churches and elsewhere and I believe that there is a constructive will to improve the Bill, even among people who might not in the end support it. I imagine that a majority will vote to give the Bill a Second Reading, but we must disabuse people of the notion that it will place a prohibition on how people may speak and preach about these things and on what happens in schools. I am sure, however, that the Joint Committee on Human Rights, of which I am a member, will address that issue intensely and will be able to give guarantees to people who fear that the Bill will affect their rights to freedom of speech and freedom of belief.
I hope that we will address two other things. I supported civil partnerships. I think the Church was wrong to oppose them at the time, and I hope that it and other faith groups now understand that they would do themselves a service if they allowed services of blessing for people in civil partnerships. It would not be good, however, to provide for an easy transfer from civil partnership to civil marriage, which is what the Bill proposes. If we are to have civil marriage, there ought to be an obligation on everybody to have the ceremony of civil marriage, so that the full import is understood. I also do not understood why the Government are not making civil partnerships available for conventional male-female relationships as well as for gay people.
I hope that there will be changes. In an intervention, I asked the Minister to consider positively, both in Committee and before Report, constructive suggestions for change. Given the complexity of the Bill, we need tolerance and respect. On Saturday night, I watched the new film, “Lincoln”. Of course, as the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) said, there are no exact parallels between the battle over slavery and this, but there is a lesson: people then took different sides of an intense argument, even though they came from the same faith or other backgrounds, but things move on and we have to learn that understanding each other’s positions and seeking the maximum consensus is the best way to proceed. I hope that is how we will continue.
Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con)
I thought long and hard about seeking to speak in the debate. I feared the tone of it and how colleagues would seek to oppose the Bill. When they talk about gay marriage making them physically sick, or suggest that it is a step towards legalising polygamy or incest—
Mike Freer
No, I will not.
Such colleagues need to remember that this involves peoples’ lives and we should remember that the words spoken in this Chamber hurt people far beyond it.
When I was elected to the House in May 2010 it could have been the proudest day of my life. I should point out, in fact, that it was the second proudest, because the proudest day was when I entered into my civil partnership, which I did six years ago, with my partner of 21 years. Our civil partnership was a huge step for us, and yet many argue that we should be content with that—after all, it affords us all the same legal protections as marriage. I ask my married colleagues: did they get married for the legal protections it afforded them? Did they go down on one knee and say, “Darling, please give me the protections marriage affords us”? Of course they did not. My civil partnership was our way of saying to my friends and my family that this is who I love, this is who I am and this is who I want to spend the rest of my life with. I am not asking for special treatment; I am simply asking for equal treatment.
People have talked about dissent, division and the heat of the debate, but sometimes leadership is about doing what is right, not what is popular. I congratulate the Prime Minister on leading on this subject. The issue has caused anxiety among colleagues and constituents. Some argue that this is not the right time, yet no one has been able to explain to me what the right time looks like. If not today, when? Monday? Next week? Next year? For me, this is the right time and we should simply get on with it.
Much of our time in this House is spent on technical legislation. Today, we have an opportunity to do what is right and to do some good. I am a Member of this Parliament and I say to my colleagues that I sit alongside them in Committee, in the bars and in the Tea Room, and I queue alongside them in the Division Lobby, but when it comes to marriage, they are asking me to stand apart and to join a separate queue. I ask my colleagues, if I am equal in this House, to give me every opportunity to be equal. Today, we have a chance to set that right and I hope that colleagues will join me in voting yes this evening.
Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)
We have heard many claims that the Government are introducing this Bill to make marriage fairer, more equitable, and available to everyone in society. In December, the Minister for Women and Equalities stated:
“Marriage is not static; it has evolved and Parliament has chosen to act over the centuries to make it fairer and more equal.”—[Official Report, 11 December 2012; Vol. 555, c. 155.]
That may have been the case, but marriage as the union of one man and one woman has never changed in thousands of years. Issues such as property rights or where ceremonies can take place have changed, but the essential nature of marriage has not.
Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?
Dr Offord
No, I will not because I would like to get through my speech.
This Bill would create “ungendered” marriage with two types of marriage available: same-sex marriage, or opposite-sex marriage. That will inevitably have implications on society’s view of marriage, but fairness will not be one of them. I will give way now.
Mr Harris
I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He talks about the unchanging nature of marriage over thousands of years. I do not know whether he is a Christian—he has not yet got to that part—but will he have a good look at the Old Testament? King David, a man described as:
“A man after God’s own heart”,
had not one wife or two wives but many, many wives and concubines. He had children by them all and was never once criticised by the priests or the writers of the Bible. Of course marriage has changed over many thousands of years—
Mr Speaker
Order. We are grateful to the hon. Gentleman but interventions must be brief.
Dr Offord
I am grateful for that intervention, particularly as it gives me an extra minute, but I will come to that point later.
One reason I oppose the Bill is that it will be an open-ended process, the consequences of which the Government and the hon. Gentleman do not appear to have considered. In an attempt to appeal, the Government have produced a policy on the principle of eradicating difference. The bitter irony is that it will lead only to greater inequality.
First, civil partners already have all the legal rights of marriage, which is denied to many others who cohabit. Two sisters who live together for many years cannot enter a civil partnership, but if one dies leaving the property to the other, the sister who remains is liable for full inheritance tax on the property. That would not apply to female same-sex partners. That is hardly fair, is it? As a result of the Bill, same-sex couples have a choice of seeking to get married or seeking a civil registration. A heterosexual couple would be denied the opportunity to seek a civil registration and have only one choice: marriage. That, too, is hardly fair.
However, what concerns me most is where this Bill will lead. The Government are unable to give assurances that certain scenarios will not develop. I suspect that many problems will evolve through the legal process because the judiciary will construct judgments that are contrary to the reassurances we hear in the Chamber.
Many hon. Members supported the legislation introduced by the previous Government that created civil partnerships because the consultation document—“Civil Partnership: A Framework for the Legal Recognition of Same Sex Couples”—stated:
“The Government has no plans to allow same-sex couples to marry. The proposals”
for civil registration
“are for an entirely new legal status of civil partnership”.
Just a decade later, we are in the House to discuss the matter again. When the Government say they have no plans to change the criteria for determining who can form a marriage, including a marriage between two people, their assurances are worthless. When I asked the Minister what consideration she had given to extending other forms of marriage, her response was that the law is pretty clear that marriage is between two people. Is that the same law that says that marriage is between one man and one woman? If so, another Government can simply change the definition to include as many partners as they want.
Three Members of the House have said they find it disgusting that people compare polygamy to same-sex marriage. I would challenge all three, if they had remained in the Chamber, to justify that. The assertion was particularly galling because my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer) refused to take my intervention. I could have explained to him that no one has ever made that justification. For the record, I have never made that comparison, but the evidence from around the world is that, once marriage is redefined and has a flexible definition, pressure grows for further redefinition. That should come as no surprise. Several advocates of same-sex marriage openly support changing the law to permit polygamy.
In Holland, same-sex marriage was introduced in 2001. Three-way relationships have since been given legal recognition through cohabitation agreements. There have been attempts in Canada to legalise polygamy through the courts using same-sex marriage. In 2007, an appeal court in Ontario ruled that a child can legally have three parents.
Polygamy already exists in this country. The Government recognised in 2007 that there were more than 1,000 bigamous or polygamous marriages in England and Wales. That was identified by Members and peers in the House of Lords. The unintended consequence of the Bill will be allowing the introduction of polygamous marriages, as advocated last night on television by Peter Tatchell. Therefore, I will vote against the Bill on behalf of almost 1,000 of my constituents who have made clear their opposition.
Unlike my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes), I am angry that I have defended people who are homosexual, including many who have left the Chamber, who then deride me as a bigot, and send me text messages saying that I am wrong just because I do not support them. I bitterly resent that.
Equality does not mean that we should treat everything the same. We certainly do not have the right to redefine marriage over the heads of our constituents.