Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Tenth sitting)

Debate between Mary Kelly Foy and Gregory Stafford

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Gregory Stafford]

Given that the hon. Member for City of Durham has decided not to press new clause 1 to a vote, I will not elaborate on it much, but she did mention that she might bring it back so I will just make a few comments. New clause 1 emphasises putting specific health warnings on individual cigarette papers and cigarettes. The hon. Member mentioned that Canada has introduced this and that Australia is thinking of doing so in coming months, specifically on the butts of the cigarettes. I believe there are warnings such as “toxic addiction” and “poison in every puff”—obviously, the phraseology has to be relatively succinct, given the size of a cigarette.

I understand that the point in trying to make it clear to those using the product that it is unsafe, unhealthy and will have negative implications on their health, but I am not aware that there is any substantive evidence to suggest that placing such wording on individual papers or products has a noticeable impact on smoking cessation. If the hon. Member for City of Durham is planning to bring the new clause back later, or if the Minister is minded to pick it up in some way, we—as the Minister said during the debate on clause 90—must be data-driven along these lines. We should not put extra burdens on the producer and customer if there is no evidence that having individualised health warnings on individual cigarette papers and cigarettes has any noticeable effect on smoking cessation.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

In my speech, I referenced evidence from Canada—the Health Canada survey. If the hon. Gentleman would like some more information on that, he could get in touch with ASH, which has the results. There was evidence to suggest that having health warnings had an impact, particularly on young people.

[Gregory Stafford]

That is very helpful. If I have not already seen it in the evidence packs that have been sent to us, then I will look that up.

I move on to clause 91—the features of the product. Implementing the regulations could require significant adjustments from manufacturers. To quote the Minister back to himself, he wants to move “like the clappers” on this. Although I welcome that, there needs to be a period where manufacturers have the opportunity to adapt to the rules.

[Gregory Stafford]

My hon. Friend makes a key point, and she has been making it throughout our discussions, as have others. Clearly, we want to move as rapidly as possible to ensure that as few children as possible are addicted to cigarettes or ever pick one up. I completely agree that we should move as fast as possible, but we need to do it in a sensible way to ensure that manufacturers can implement what we want them to implement, and that we do not end up in a situation where they are caught out by that.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

I am not pressing the new clause to a vote, although I suggested that the Minister or Department could look into the issue once the Bill has received Royal Assent. But just for information, Canada is the first country in the world to require mandatory health warnings on cigarettes. That legislation came into force in 2023. To address the hon. Gentleman’s point, there was a minimum lead-in time for king-size cigarettes of nine months for manufacturers and 12 months for retailers, and longer lead-in times for other products. Australia followed suit by passing legislation in December 2023; its regulations will come into force by July this year.

[Gregory Stafford]

Those sound like fairly reasonable timeframes; if the Minister were minded to follow those, I would support him, notwithstanding what I have already said.

On clause 91, which I support, we need to ensure that there is a comprehensive stakeholder consultation for whatever the Minister plans to do in this area. There needs to be some kind of phased implementation—by which I mean an eight or nine-month period, or whatever—to ensure that manufacturers can catch up with whatever is being implemented. As I have said previously on other clauses, there must be robust enforcement mechanisms to ensure that manufacturers and retailers comply. Once again, this is all about educating the public about what the legislation means and what they should be expecting. Public education campaigns on this matter are essential.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Fourth sitting)

Debate between Mary Kelly Foy and Gregory Stafford

Committee stage
Thursday 9th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

I wish to speak to new clause 3, which is in my name. I do not intend to press it to a vote, and I will be very brief because there has been a lot of discussion—about three and a half hours—on this part of the Bill already, and I hope it will answer some of those points. I am introducing it because I think it would enhance the Bill’s consistency with the Government’s four-nations approach. New clause 3 would apply to all the nations of the United Kingdom mandatory age verification for purchasing tobacco, vapes and non-medicinal nicotine products, in line with the provisions set out for Scotland in the Bill.

Scotland has had mandatory age verification for anyone who looks under 20 as a legal requirement for purchasing tobacco and vapes since 2017. In lay terms, there is a legal underpinning for Challenge 25, which is voluntary in the rest of the UK. The Bill amends the Scottish system so that from 2033, it will be a legal requirement to verify the age of anyone trying to purchase tobacco who looks like they were born on or after 1 January 2009. My new clause would simply extend that beyond Scotland to ensure consistency for retailers, customers and enforcement agencies.

[Gregory Stafford]

Just for clarification, is the hon. Lady doing this simply to make it equitable across the United Kingdom, or is there something specific in the policy that she thinks will strengthen the Bill or add to it parts that are not covered currently?

[Mary Kelly Foy]

The new clause will make the policy consistent across the nations and simplify the process. If I can carry on, I will expand on those points. The new clause will extend the policy further than Scotland and simplify the process for retailers, customers and enforcement agencies. There has already been a lot of discussion about the implementation of a smoke-free generation, and about trying to make it simple and easy to understand. We heard in oral evidence concerns about the difficulty, when the policy has been in place for some decades, in telling the difference between two individuals in their forties who fall on either side of the policy. While that is likely to be a marginal issue in practice, the new clause will further help to resolve it.

Mandatory age verification currently exists in Scotland and is supported by retailers here. In response to the Minister’s point about it possibly being a burden on businesses, a survey of independent UK tobacco retailers by Action on Smoking and Health in 2024 found that more than seven out of 10 retailers—71%—in England and Wales supported this.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mary Kelly Foy]

As I pointed out, surveys of retailers in Scotland show that 83% of them do not think it is a burden. As things are, there are fewer tobacco sales year on year, and as we progress, the sale of tobacco will phase out anyway; it will not be a thing of the future for businesses. In the meantime, they have pointed out that this measure aids them.

[Gregory Stafford]

I am interested to hear those facts. I know the hon. Lady will not press her new clause to a vote, and given that the Government do not support it, as far as I can tell, it is probably not going to be part of the law, but perhaps we can have a further discussion on Report.