EU Referendum: UK-Ireland Border

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Tuesday 19th July 2016 Westminster Hall

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate the hon. Member for Belfast South (Dr McDonnell) on making the debate possible as this issue has been debated across these islands. I welcome the Minister to his new position. For the record, I declare an interest, in that I am an officer of the all-party group on the Irish in Britain. I speak in the debate not only as an MP representing a Scottish constituency with a large Irish diaspora but as someone with Irish grandparents—a common occurrence for those of us in the west of Scotland.

From a Scottish perspective, during the European Union referendum campaign, the messages those of us on the remain side from across the usual party political divide conveyed were of the many economic and social benefits of being a member of the European Union and how best our country and our people can interact with our neighbours across that Union. Critically, free moment of people and goods are, and continue to be, important benefits, and ones that affect many of my constituents. I have no doubt that that was one of the contributing factors that led to such a large vote to remain, not only in my constituency but across the nation of Scotland.

The status of EU nationals living in this country must be urgently addressed to reassure those living, working and paying their taxes that their future is secure. While the issues facing Scotland and the status of EU nationals can be appreciated in Northern Ireland, the fact that the Province shares a border with a European Union country opens up a new layer of complex issues.

[Ms Ritchie]

On that point, does the hon. Gentleman agree that the free movement of goods, services and people is vital to a sound economic base on the island of Ireland, both north and south, and also between Ireland and Britain?

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[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I could not agree more with the hon. Lady, as access to a stable economy creates stable communities. As I said, while the EU nationals issue can be appreciated in Northern Ireland, the fact that the Province shares a border with a European country opens up a new layer of complex issues, involving local businesses, communities and the people themselves that needs to be addressed. The situation brings challenges for both the Irish and United Kingdom Governments as well as for the Northern Ireland Executive. A coherent strategy across all three must be in place to meet the issues that arise from the United Kingdom voting to leave the European Union. The impact of Brexit on the Good Friday agreement is still unclear. The United Kingdom Government must address the concerns that any possible hardening of the border will have a detrimental impact on the protections contained in the Good Friday agreement.

The second piece of legislation I will touch on is the common travel area. There are provisions outlined in that long-standing agreement that Irish citizens have a special place and status in UK law which is separate to and predates the rights they have as European Union citizens. I believe, as I hope the Minister does, that the common travel area is of the utmost importance in the positive working relationship between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. Will the Minister reaffirm what the UK Government’s view is on the CTA and whether they intend to seek legal advice on how Brexit will impact on the legislation? In addition, will he advise whether the previous review of citizenship legislation in 2008 that called into question Irish citizen rights in the United Kingdom will re-emerge? Has consideration been given to amending or repealing the Ireland Act 1949?

It must be acknowledged that the majority of the people of Northern Ireland, like the sovereign nation of Scotland, voted to remain in the European Union, and that the United Kingdom Government must listen to those voices and take them seriously. Therefore, I would ask that the Government include the Scottish Government and Northern Ireland Executive every step of the way in this process, critically in relation to the border arrangements with the Irish Republic.

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[Mr Goodwill]

Those are all areas we can review. Indeed, they may well be a central part of the negotiations. The UK now has to raise its horizons to a global level. Travel and trade between the big trading blocs in the world are opportunities we must take. I commend the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) for the passion with which he spoke about the opportunities of Brexit and not just the Private Frazer doom and gloom we have heard from some others in the debate.

We must continue to protect our borders and the public from the threat posed to both the UK and Ireland from criminals and terrorists who may seek to enter the common travel area and do harm. There is a considerable amount of joint working and shared policy between common travel area members to secure the CTA external border—for example, investment in border processes; increased data sharing to inform immigration and border security decisions; interoperable passenger data systems; and harmonised visa policy and processes.

At the end of March, Ireland passed legislation that allows the UK to require carriers to provide advance passenger information on UK-Ireland journeys where collected by the carrier. A joint British-Irish visa scheme is an innovative scheme that shows just what can be achieved when the UK and Ireland work together in our shared interest. The scheme currently allows Indian and Chinese nationals who are issued visit visas for one country to also visit the other. That promotes tourism in both countries and is an important and expanding part of the Northern Ireland economy, which we are keen to see grow further.

Preparations for the negotiations to leave the EU must involve all the devolved Administrations, to ensure that the interests of all parts of the United Kingdom are properly taken into account. The UK Government are committed to working with the devolved Administrations as we prepare for a new negotiation with the EU.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

Given the commitment to work with the devolved Administrations, will the British Government commit to support Irish citizens who have more or less equal rights to be in the United Kingdom? Will those rights remain? The Minister has skipped over that dramatically.

[Mr Goodwill]

There are a number of rights that existed before we joined the European Union. Those treaties are still in place, and there is no reason to suspect that there will be any threat to that particular situation.

The common travel area is a product of its unique historical, geographical and political context, evolving over time in a pragmatic way to meet the changing needs of society. That tradition of co-operation and the regard shown for the interests of all parts of the common travel area and the UK should continue now. Our objective for the common travel area as we enter negotiations with the EU on the UK’s departure is clear: to protect the arrangement for future generations of British and Irish citizens, cognisant of our shared identity and history. The Government will continue to work with Ireland and the Northern Ireland Executive in particular to see how best, collectively, we can work not only to maintain the common travel area but to enhance further the opportunities and strengthen our collective capability to protect our borders and the public from harm.

Wilson Doctrine

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Monday 19th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Martin John Docherty (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) for bringing this debate to the Floor of the House. Like many Members, I am disappointed that more Members have not chosen to join us, although I am delighted to see that many Scottish National party Members have chosen to do so.

This is a critical issue not only for all Members of this place but for those in all layers of Government, including Members of our Parliament in Edinburgh and of the Assemblies in Wales and Northern Ireland. It is also critical for members of other democratically elected mandates in the Union, especially Members of the European Parliament. I note that the Member who mentioned Members of the Scottish Parliament is no longer here, but I remind those who have sought to remind us of the differing mandates in Scotland, that there are also differing mandates for Members of the European Parliament who are elected on the regional system. It was suggested that we should include the entire nation of Scotland, which was a ridiculous proposition.

Like most dogma, this doctrine seems neither sacrosanct nor enforceable, and if truth be told, the will of the House has never been sought in this matter. As in so many matters, the House has been ill-informed on the limits of the Wilson doctrine. This might be my own personal cynicism, but I find that rather naive. We are now debating this for the first time and calling for legislation for the first time since 1966. The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) had to physically go to court in order to bring the matter to the Floor of the House. I congratulate her on that.

The purpose of the workings of the Executive in a liberal democracy must be to maintain the defence of the separation of the Executive from this legislative body, be that in this House, in our Parliament in Edinburgh or in the devolved Assembles of Wales and Northern Ireland. The pronouncements of the late right hon. Member for Huyton, Harold Wilson, bound neither future Prime Ministers nor, it would seem, Home Secretaries. Instead, the doctrine is the statement of a belief and faith in what is usually a fairly small issue. In this instance, we are talking only about the telephone conversations of Members of this House, and nothing else. It is the perhaps naive collective belief of Members here and beyond that our representative role as constituency MPs should not be undermined by a range of intelligence agencies not limited to MI5, and that it has not been so undermined since that near ex cathedra statement of the Prime Minister in 1966.

If that belief and trust have been broken—the debate so far seems to suggest that they have been—it is the duty of the Government and perhaps of the Home Secretary of the day, without prompt and with due diligence, to seek a hasty remedy by bringing legislation before the House. The Home Secretary suggested earlier that there could be elements of the investigatory powers Bill that would find favour across the House, and I welcome that.

None the less, I ask the Government to publish with haste the details of how many Members have been investigated in a year. The hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) also asked that question. I would perhaps go further and ask how many of those Members have been found wanting in their communications. Can we be told how many were found to pose a risk to the security of the country as a result of the examination of their telephone calls, emails and other communications for security purposes by all elements of the security services, so as to defend the reputation of this House and the need of its Members to be able to hold the Executive to account without hindrance?

This is also an issue for our Parliament in Edinburgh and the other devolved Assemblies. That was particularly the case for our colleagues in the Scottish Parliament during the independence referendum, critically in relation to the communications of the Scottish Cabinet—[Interruption.] I can hear tutting, but this is an issue that many people in the United Kingdom will find important. Let us be in no doubt that all communities in Scotland would find such a situation an outrage and an affront to the sovereign will of the Scottish people and the independence of their Parliament in devolved matters.

Not since the publication of the encyclical “Humanae Vitae” has a doctrine been so flagrantly ignored. The Wilson doctrine has not sought to propagate the population, but its principles have been unfulfilled and found wanting. The doctrine has been found wanting for some years, but never more so than on 15 July 2014 when the Home Secretary, in response to the now deputy Leader of the Opposition, the hon. Member for West Bromwich East (Mr Watson), stated:

“Obviously, the Wilson doctrine applies to parliamentarians. It does not absolutely exclude the use of these powers against parliamentarians, but it sets certain requirements for those powers to be used in relation to a parliamentarian. It is not the case that parliamentarians are excluded and nobody else in the country is, but there is a certain set of rules and protocols that have to be met if there is a requirement to use any of these powers against a parliamentarian”.—[Official Report, 15 July 2014; Vol. 584, c. 713.]

As with most doctrines, people seem to be making this one up as they go along.

It would seem that the very nature of our constitutional framework leaves this House, this Parliament and its elected Members at the whim of the unelected and the unaccountable. It is a constitutional fudge that affords the Executive the opportunity to undermine the role and independence of this House and all its elected Members. I am not pointing a finger at the present Government; this could apply to any Government since the 1960s, or indeed earlier. I hope that when we debate the investigatory powers Bill, the Government will at least offer to support any legitimate defence of our liberty as parliamentarians. That applies to the liberty of those of us in this House, but also to those in our Parliament in Scotland and in the Assemblies of Wales and Northern Ireland, as well as to those who represent this country in the European Parliament.