NHS (Government Spending)

Mark Spencer Excerpts

Wednesday 28th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Dr Poulter]

I am familiar with the hon. Lady’s constituency, having worked as a doctor at a hospital in the area. Her question is very disingenuous when we have increased the number of front-line clinical staff working in our NHS, investing in more staff to treat patients. We have also recently agreed with the unions a pay deal that will see the majority of NHS staff receiving a substantial increase in pay, thanks largely to their increments. Other staff will receive 1%.

[Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

The Opposition appear to struggle with the concept that we can fund public services only if the economy is moving forward. The interest alone on the debts that the previous Government amassed would have been enough to build a hospital ward every 30 minutes.

[Dr Poulter]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. On this side of the House we believe that when we spend public money we should do so efficiently and effectively. We have also made Government spending much more efficient—[Interruption.] Rather than heckling, the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) might do well to listen to what I am about to say, because efficient public spending should be a priority for any Government, although it certainly was not for the previous Government. Cabinet Office figures, endorsed by the National Audit Office, show that £14.3 billion of savings, relative to 2009-10, have been made across many areas of expenditure, including procurement, work force, major projects and transformation. That is £850 for every working household saved by this Government, and clearly shows that we are spending public money much more efficiently and wisely than Labour ever did when in office.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry).

It is a little sad, to be honest, to be having this debate today, because we could approach this issue in a much more mature way as politicians. Clearly there are enormous challenges facing our health service and our adult social care services, not only for this Government or the next, but for the two Governments after them. As politicians, we owe it to our constituents to have a mature debate about how we are going to avert the demographic time bomb that is heading our way. Frankly, we all have an interest in that. Just like the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie), we are probably going to need those services at some point. I hope I will not find myself in a bed next to him, but we could end up on the same ward.

It is worth saying that every Labour party election leaflet for the last 50 years has said, “You can’t trust the Tories with the NHS.” Yet we have had countless Conservative Governments over that period, and the NHS continues to thrive, to look after people and to offer its services.

[Grahame M. Morris]

The hon. Gentleman is saying that the NHS is safe in Conservative hands, but let me remind him that in 1997, when Labour came to power, there had been 18 years—a considerable length of time—of under-investment. Expenditure on the NHS was increased 300% by the Labour Government: from £30 billion to over £100 billion. Every accident and emergency unit was rebuilt and many hospitals were rebuilt, too.

[Mr Spencer]

That is where the hon. Gentleman’s party falls down. Labour Members obsess about cash and forget about clinical operation. That is why we ended up with crises such as that at Mid Staffs hospital, with people dying in their beds because of bureaucracy, target setting and obsession with process rather than the care of patients.

The Opposition also have an obsession with the private sector. My father had to have a new knee, unfortunately. He went to the local hospital, which happens to be the one that the constituents of the hon. Member for Nottingham East attend. Rather than being treated in the NHS Queen’s medical centre, he was sent to a hospital in Sherwood in his constituency, which looked after him very well. It was a private hospital and this was in 2008—under the previous Government. The NHS was making use of private services back then. It was very efficient and well delivered. I do not understand this obsession with the private sector. We need to remember that private companies make the drugs that the NHS uses; private companies make all the crutches and the ambulances; and GPs are, in effect, private companies. It works very well. As long as we can deliver a service that is free at the point of use and run in the most efficient way but with the highest levels of care and consideration, I think that is the right place to be.

[Barbara Keeley]

Let me return to my earlier point. Would the hon. Gentleman be comfortable if his constituents with cancer or those at the end of their lives had to contend with a totally privatised service? That is what we might have to contend with, because we might be faced with a 10-year contract to privatise all those services. It has never been done before, and it is highly risky—and the oncologists were not even consulted about it. We are not talking about supplementing; we are talking about private services replacing the NHS.

[Mr Spencer]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. What my constituents who are in the unfortunate position of suffering from cancer care about is whether they are going to get better. Is the service going to deliver a service that makes them better and gets them over the disease? Frankly, if it does not cost constituents any money, and if the level of care and service is the highest, I think that is what really matters to them.

It is easy to stand here and talk. Politicians talk—they will always talk—but we have to look at what politicians do. This Government, to their credit, have in this Parliament put in an extra £12.7 billion. Let us compare that with how politicians have operated in Wales, where the budget has been cut by 8%. I think it says a lot to our constituents about how the NHS is going to be managed in future and how much we genuinely care about and want to support the NHS system.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that central Government have cut the Welsh Government’s money by 10% and that health spending in Wales is now at an all-time high?

[Mr Spencer]

Of course, I am the first to admit that there is financial pressure within the system. The previous Government borrowed enormous amounts of money and ran up an enormous deficit. Any Government coming in at that time would have had to take difficult decisions, but the simple fact is that spending in England has gone up under this Government, while spending in Wales under the control of the hon. Lady’s party has gone down. There are some 850,000 extra operations a year taking place in our NHS by comparison with 2010.

The issue that upsets me most and has brought me to attend this debate is the state of my own Sherwood Forest Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust. It “benefited” from a PFI deal signed under the previous Government, which now costs the trust £40 million a year out of its budget. That is where we went wrong under the previous Government. Let us spin that out: we were fortunate enough to invest £320 million in a new hospital, but it will cost £2 billion in repayments. I put it to Members that they would get a better interest rate from Wonga than they would out of that PFI deal. If we look at what happened nationally, we find that £11 billion-worth of investment through PFI matches up with £55 billion-worth of repayments. That means £44 billion being taken out of the NHS because of the shocking PFI deals signed by the previous Government.

Labour Members talk about the cost of our reorganisation being £3 billion, but that is frankly nothing by comparison with £44 billion. It is an enormous amount of cash that could be spent on doctors, nurses, cancer patients and putting our NHS services in the right place.

I am very fortunate that the Secretary of State has agreed to meet me and my hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick) to try to help Sherwood Forest hospital trust out of the hole that the previous Government put it in. Hopefully, we can assist in dealing with the £40 million a year being sucked out of the trust.

I am conscious that other Members want to speak, so I shall end there. I am grateful for having had the opportunity to speak.