Katrice Lee

Mark Francois Excerpts

Thursday 8th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) on securing this important debate on the case of his constituent, Mr Richard Lee, whose daughter, Katrice, went missing from a British Army shopping complex in Germany in 1981. I am also aware of the interest shown by my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) as constituency MP for Katrice’s mother, and I welcome her contribution to the debate. We have heard two earnest and passionate contributions from both sides of the House; this is a completely bipartisan matter, which is exactly as it should be.

Briefly, may I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Hartlepool for his comments yesterday during Prime Minister’s questions? He asked the first question to the Deputy Prime Minister, and echoed effectively his tribute to our recently fallen personnel in Afghanistan. That was appreciated in the Ministry of Defence, and, I am sure, by the families of those personnel as well.

The Royal Anglian Regiment recently lost Corporal Alex Guy during its tour of Helmand province. Its homecoming was held in Basildon, Essex, this afternoon, and I represented the Government. I pay tribute to that regiment for a fine and well-conducted tour, and thank Mo Larkin, BEM, the mayor of Basildon, and all her staff, for giving it such a wonderfully warm homecoming that was supported by thousands of people in Basildon town centre. I wanted to get that on the record.

The Katrice Lee case is very distressing, and I should like to extend my heartfelt sympathy to the Lee family, who must have suffered terribly since the disappearance of their daughter some 30 years ago. Both hon. Members who have spoken have corresponded with my predecessor on a number of occasions, and they will understand that there are areas of the case that I cannot discuss in detail on the Floor of the House, not least because they relate to an ongoing police investigation. However, I should like to reassure them that the Royal Military Police are currently going to every length to try to discover the truth about what happened to Katrice. I will try and give at least some indication of that in my remarks.

As the hon. Gentleman has outlined, his constituent was a British soldier serving in Germany at the time of his daughter’s disappearance, a posting on which he was accompanied by his then wife, Sharon, Katrice’s mother. On the morning of Saturday 28 November 1981, the Lee family were visited by other family members. It appears that a group of them, including Katrice, went out shopping for provisions for Katrice’s second birthday party, which was planned for that afternoon. The family were shopping in a busy NAAFI shopping complex one mile from the family’s married quarter. This was the day after the last payday before Christmas and, as hon. Members would expect, the shop was therefore understandably very busy. At approximately 11 am, while the family were queuing to pay for their shopping, Katrice was lost from sight, and despite the frantic efforts of the family and staff, could not be found.

Under the NATO status of forces agreement, jurisdiction for the case rested with the Royal Military Police. Area searches were conducted on the ground, by helicopter and by diving teams in the nearby River Lippe. Large numbers of Royal Military Police, German police, British troops and volunteers—large numbers of people—worked tirelessly to try to find Katrice, but sadly, as we know, to no avail.

In February 2000, following a review by the then National Crime Faculty, the Royal Military Police again looked at the investigation and developed new lines of inquiry, which included the arrest and questioning of a former soldier, but ultimately, the case remained unsolved, partly owing to a lack of conclusive evidence, and the investigation was suspended in 2003.

In January 2012 the Royal Military Police reopened the investigation under the name Operation BUTE, and decided to go back to first principles to reinvestigate the case. Essentially, there is now a new police investigation using the very latest techniques and methodologies to explore all possible explanations for Katrice’s disappearance. The investigation team consists of military police personnel supported by experienced civilian investigators—all are trained to national policing standards. Investigators are using the latest Home Office large major inquiry system—the HOLMES 2 computer system—to provide a greater level of analysis of the available investigative material than was previously possible.

Expert advice has also been sought from the Serious Organised Crime Agency operational support team, specialists from the child abduction unit with the US Federal Bureau of Investigation at Quantico, and a range of other leading experts. Where evidence is available, the latest forensic techniques are being used, including DNA, offender profiling and facial age progression techniques. Investigators are also attempting to trace and re-interview the nearly 2,000 people who visited the NAAFI supermarket on the day that Katrice disappeared. We should bear in mind what a busy day it was, as I have explained.

All opportunities, including a planned further appeal on the BBC’s “Crimewatch” programme, which is due to take place later this month, are being pursued. I am advised that in cases of this type, an appeal even many years on can sometimes spark someone to come forward. We can only hope that that will happen in this instance.

Since the launch of Operation BUTE, the Royal Military Police have been engaged with the family using specialist family liaison officers, and every effort has been made to keep them informed of developments. That support to the Lee family will, of course, continue for as long as it needs to. I am conscious that the family, for perfectly understandable reasons, has sought access to files from the original investigation. However, as the hon. Gentleman has acknowledged, this is a live police investigation, and it is not appropriate to release that information at this stage, not least because we would risk prejudicing any potential criminal proceedings that may arise. However, there may be something that we can do, and I will come to that in a moment. All police forces also have a duty to protect the identity of anyone who comes to their attention during an investigation but against whom no further action was either possible or appropriate. The rules of natural justice must still apply.

I understand, and support, the unwavering determination of Katrice’s parents to uncover the truth of what happened, and I can assure them that there will be no attempt to cover up any past failings. I am happy to repeat previous assurances given to the family that the Royal Military Police will be open about any failings that are identified and that, when the time is right, we will look again at the issue of disclosure. I also know that Brigadier Bill Warren, the Provost Marshal (Army) and the chief officer of the Royal Military Police, has indicated that, at an appropriate point in his team’s work, he will ask a civilian police force to review the entire investigation. The outcome of that review will be shared with Katrice’s parents as far as it is possible to do so. I hope that, at least in part, addresses one of the points that the hon. Member for Hartlepool has put to the House.

As everyone will know, we do not have a time machine and we cannot go back to the events of that day in 1981 when Katrice tragically disappeared. But what the Royal Military Police are doing is rigorously applying all available modern investigative techniques and seeking the advice of leading international colleagues. In other words, they are doing everything practically possible, given the time that has elapsed, to get to the bottom of what happened to Katrice.

I have only come to this case recently, having been in post for some two months, but I have looked at the details and I fully appreciate that this has been a long torment for the Lee family. I know that they have concerns about how the case was handled at the time, as both hon. Members have reflected in the debate. I would therefore be happy to meet the hon. Member for Hartlepool and his constituent in order to discuss the case in more detail. I am also happy to meet my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport and her constituent. We can either do this in one meeting or two, depending on the family’s preference.

I propose that before Christmas, or early in the new year at the latest, we meet at the headquarters of the Royal Military Police’s Special Investigation Branch in Bulford, where the Provost Marshal (Army) and his investigative team will be available to discuss the current investigation with the Lee family personally and to answer any questions they may have. If the hon. Members and the family are content, I will also be present at those meetings and discussions so that I can hear the questions and answers for myself. As the Minister directly responsible for this issue, I hope that I have been able to make an offer to both hon. Members this evening, the spirit of which I hope they will understand. Once they have discussed this issue with the family, if our three offices can co-ordinate promptly and we can all sort our diaries out, I hope that we can all meet in Bulford. I think that that would be the most useful place to meet, ideally in the run-up to Christmas, but if for whatever reason that is not possible, then as early as we can in January.

I will also be happy to meet again with the hon. Members and their constituents, either collectively or individually, once the investigation has concluded to discuss its conclusions at that time. I cannot give a guarantee this evening at the Dispatch Box for when the investigation will conclude. I completely and utterly understand why hon. Members and the family would like me to do that. I do get it, if I can put it like that, but the investigation must be allowed to run its proper course. If the family have frustrations about that, which I can understand, then I suggest that the best thing would be if they put those to the Provost Marshal (Army) directly when we meet. Perhaps he can update them fully at that time on where the investigation has got to and at least try to give them some idea of when matters might be brought to a conclusion. I hope the House can appreciate the spirit in which we are now attempting to address this matter.

This has been a tragic case. It has gone on for more than 30 years. The two hon. Members have done exactly the right thing in bringing it to the attention of the House. I hope they might feel that I, on behalf of the Department, have tried to do the right thing to take this as seriously as the matter obviously warrants. Perhaps we can all continue this discussion in Bulford and do our best to get to the bottom of what happened to Katrice. I hope that we can try to help the family with what must have been an almost unbearable burden for more than three decades.

Question put and agreed to.