Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Tuesday 21st January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I could not possibly disagree with that observation. I congratulate Fresh Start and Open Europe on holding the conference last week, which my right hon. Friend the Chancellor addressed. It was interesting that people were there from many other EU countries who want to have the discussion on how the EU becomes more flexible and more competitive, with greater accountability to national Parliaments. That is the debate we are leading.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

T5. Further to the case raised by the hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) on Colombia, will the Minister address the case of Huber Ballesteros, who will face trial in a number of weeks, also on a contrived charge of rebellion? Will he address these human rights issues in a way that does not just send a signal to the Santos regime that they somehow fall within a margin of tolerable excess in the context of a peace process?

[Mr Swire]

That is not the case. We are, of course, aware of the detention of Mr Ballesteros on 25 August. Our ambassador to Colombia wrote to the Colombian prosecutor general on 28 August to highlight our interest in the case and to request information on the charges. Staff at our embassy in Bogota are seeking permission to visit Mr Ballesteros in prison. It is simply not the case that we turn to one side and avert our gaze to what we regard as human rights violations in Colombia.

Iran and Syria

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Monday 11th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

There is no obligation on the Foreign Secretary to have a guess, especially as the statement is about Iran and Syria, so the hon. Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell), even by his own standards, has been exceptionally cheeky.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Foreign Secretary has expressed a determination to see a direct role for women’s groups in Syrian peace talks and has stated that he will work with others to support such participation if it can be realised. Is he encouraged about the prospects, and how is the Syrian National Coalition responding to his encouragement to include women in its delegation?

[Mr Hague]

I am encouraged by some of the response, and I pay tribute to the work already done by the Government of the Netherlands to push this idea; we will work closely with them. I think that there is a lot of support for this at the UN, and we will be very determined about it, so yes I am encouraged by some of the initial reaction. Now that the Syrian National Coalition has made its decision in principle about attendance at the Geneva II talks, we will start going into these sorts of issues in more detail with it.

Sudan and South Sudan

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Government’s role in supporting peace and development in Sudan and South Sudan.

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for its decision to grant a request that I and several other hon. Members made to ensure that the House had this overdue debate on Sudan and South Sudan. The hon. Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) and I went before the Committee last week, and although some of the other dozen hon. Members who had supported the petition were unable to attend because of their involvement in debates in the Chamber or in Committee business, we were successful in arranging the debate for an earlier date than we had reckoned.

[Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues on securing the debate. United Nations resolution 1591 was passed in 2005, and its intentions were clear. Is it not despicable that the international community still has not responded to them?

[Mark Durkan]

I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s support in securing this debate and I absolutely accept his point. Signals given by the international community, and promises made in various peace agreements by those in Sudan and South Sudan, were not always followed through. It is important that we take time to address this issue in the Chamber.

The previous debate on Sudan and South Sudan took place in spring 2011, in the countdown to South Sudan’s independence. At that time, there was some hope about the new country’s prospects. There was hope that more of the comprehensive peace agreement would come to fruition if it had a framework or context in which to work. The hopes and goodwill of NGOs and others in the international community were tragically dashed. The effect on the lives of so many people in both countries was cruel.

We sought this debate because we are coming up to the second anniversary of South Sudan’s independence and because we recently marked the 10th anniversary of the conflict in Darfur. Hon. Members from all parties wrote to the Foreign Secretary, the US Secretary of State and the Australian Foreign Minister to raise concerns about policy drift on Darfur. Perhaps we have been remiss as parliamentarians in not addressing this issue in this Chamber, but we know why that has happened. Other events have caught our attention: the Arab spring and its complex aftermath and the situations in Mali and Syria have taken our focus. The danger is that the international community is giving a signal that what is happening in Darfur is par for the course and there is not a lot more that we can do about it beyond the commitments we have previously made.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

The sadness is that this situation has been going on for so long. Some 20 years ago, my wife worked in southern Sudan for the International Committee of the Red Cross, and it was a basket case then. It is about time the world got together and sorted out this dreadful situation, so that the people there can live peacefully and bring up their children properly.

[Mark Durkan]

I recognise the passion of the hon. Gentleman’s intervention, and that is exactly why this debate is necessary. There is a danger that because South Sudan has been established, we think it can make its merry way forward, but it is a fragile state—the world’s youngest. It lacks serious governmental and administrative infrastructure, and there is a gross disparity in the position of women and girls in its society. For decades now, these people have suffered from the effects of conflict, and they are still suffering. Even now, seven of the 10 states in South Sudan display features of conflict and the depredations that come with it.

[Sir Tony Cunningham (Workington) (Lab)]

I recognise that this is a political debate with a Foreign Office lead, but does my hon. Friend not agree that there is still a huge humanitarian crisis in the area too?

[Mark Durkan]

I fully accept what the hon. Gentleman says—of course there is a humanitarian crisis, as I think many other hon. Members will also emphasise.

Since the fact of this debate was published, I have been struck by how many of us have been contacted by non-governmental organisations, which have provided urgent briefings and said how glad they are that we are having this debate. It is particularly telling that some of them said, “You cannot give out the locality-specific information that we are giving to you, because it could be traced back to us and compromise NGO operatives and associates in particular regions.” Their nervousness about being named and about their briefings being traced speaks volumes about the situation and their bravery and good work.

These NGOs do not take the side of particular political interests; theirs is purely a humanitarian effort, and like the Government—I know that we will hear from the Minister later—they welcome and encourage any positive steps, whether in the relationship between Sudan and South Sudan or towards improving conditions in the two countries. They are also clear about the risks and about the trespasses against human rights and humanitarian standards that take place all too frequently and are seemingly met with indifference. In Darfur, for instance, the United Nations-African Union Mission in Darfur has recently seemed to be saying, “Well, because there has been statistical easement in some features of the humanitarian crisis in Darfur, we should treat that as though the crisis is ending,” but clearly it is not ending. Even when there are statistical easements, factors and circumstances change, whether it is factors of conflict or seasonal factors or other trepidations that interfere with the situation, and as a result, people find themselves in an ever graver plight, so we cannot act like this is done and dusted on the basis of comprehensive peace agreements that are given only faltering acknowledgment.

I hope that the Minister will explain not only how engaged the British Government are with the political interests in both countries, but how much support they are giving to, and how engaged they are with, the various NGOs. I hope that he will also indicate how well the UK engagement effort works with that of the EU, given that the EU is the single biggest donor in the area, and respond to questions about the UN’s role. Given the misgivings about the UN’s action and the lack of reportage and serious monitoring in Sri Lanka, fundamental questions remain about UNAMID’s competence and sense of purpose in Darfur, where it does not report every transgression with equal seriousness.

[Mr Tom Clarke]

I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend for being so generous in giving way. When he refers to agencies, including the United Nations agencies, does he agree that UNAMID falls short of its mandate of civilian protection and that many people have suffered because of that?

[Mark Durkan]

I fully agree with the right hon. Gentleman. We have all heard UNAMID described as the most expensive and least effective peacekeeping operation in the history of the world. UNAMID stands indicted, but if we do not seek to address and ameliorate that in some way, we, too, will stand indicted as parliamentarians.

The range of issues that can be addressed in this debate, and certainly the range of issues that have reached us in briefings from non-governmental organisations, is wide, but those issues also run deep. I do not intend to rehearse them all in opening this debate; the main point is to allow other Members to reflect those points and concerns, as well as the fact that, from time to time, there are indications of hope from these regions. That happens not just when we see flickering developments—all too often cancelled out later—in political engagement, dialogue, talks, deals on oil flows, and so on, but in relation to the potential to build and improve capacity in both countries. However, the key to that is overcoming the difficulties of conflict and all the preoccupations, the distractions and the depletion of resources and potential that conflict represents. That is why the international community owes more than just humanitarian support to the people of these two countries.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the best ways in which we can diminish the conflict between South Sudan and Sudan is to implement in full the oil agreement signed last September? Is he aware that last year, when the rest of sub-Saharan Africa was seeing annual GDP growth of between 5% and 6%, GDP fell by 55% in South Sudan and by nearly 1% in Sudan? Is that not what is driving the continued problems between both states and leading to some of the health and education indicators we are seeing?

[Mark Durkan]

The hon. Gentleman is right. He has great insight into both countries, given that he so ably chairs the all-party group on Sudan and South Sudan. He rightly points to some of the declining profiles for South Sudan. I have many statistics on the social experience in Sudan and economic conditions. I do not intend to turn my opening speech into a presentation of the grave statistics on both countries, but some useful contributions can be made in this debate by a number of hon. Members.

When we look at both countries, it is important not only to look at them together in their historical and regional context, given some of the issues of conflict, but to look at them in their own right and, in particular, at the people of each country in their own right. I have referred to Darfur, but it is not the only place in Sudan where we see violence waged by the Government of Sudan against their own citizens. Only last week—I am sure other hon. Members will refer to this—we had a chilling report from Amnesty International entitled “We had no time to bury them”, which highlighted war crimes in Sudan’s Blue Nile state. That report, based on extensive interviews—where Amnesty International could conduct them—satellite images and the examination of various records, mounts a devastating critique of what the Sudanese Government have been able to do against their own people. That follows the pattern we saw in Darfur, although it is not confined to the Blue Nile state, but can be found in South Kordofan as well.

That gives rise to the obvious question that many people ask: how is it that we appear to be maintaining lines of engagement and agreeing aid packages, as part of multilateral rounds, with the Government in Sudan—because we want to help the people of Darfur—in ways that do not chime with our attitude to the behaviour of the former Libyan regime or the current Syrian regime or our attitude in other similar circumstances? I understand why the Government make their commitment alongside others, for instance, in the context of the Doha conference earlier this year. I know, however, that this House has heard from Darfurians who basically say that this is rewarding ethnic cleansing and doing nothing for victims. They fear that some of those moneys could end up being used by that same Government to further their violence against their own civilians. I am not saying that that is absolutely so or that there are no guarantees or measures to prevent or proof against that risk, but it is a risk that is genuinely felt. We have heard it genuinely expressed here within the precincts of this House, so I hope that the Minister will, as well as responding to questions from hon. Members, address those questions that come naturally from concerned citizens in Sudan and South Sudan.

I want to allow other hon. Members to speak. I am sure that they will cover the other points I would have made, and I look forward to hearing them.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Durkan]

I thank all Members for their passionate contributions to the debate. Alas, although many important issues were raised, none of what we said did justice to the scale and nature of the problems faced by the people of Sudan and South Sudan, or bore adequate witness to the quality of the work and commitment of so many non-governmental organisations and others.

The issues raised have been addressed by both the Minister and the shadow Minister, and I appreciate the fact that the Minister has responded to Members’ questions, including those passed on to us by others, as we engaged in the subject through the all-party group on Sudan and South Sudan and other channels.

Many useful questions were asked about UNAMID and the United Nations, and an important message was sent about the competence and value of their involvement. We cannot just casually go with yet another international agency, perhaps with a big money spend; we are talking about what is meant to be a serious international intervention in a tragic situation, and it does not seem to be delivering what it should. That may in part be because we have not held it to account or followed through on the financial commitment or on the parliamentary scrutiny to the extent that we have elsewhere. Perhaps we need to shake up our own priorities.

In my opening remarks, I did not have time to acknowledge last year’s very good report on South Sudan from the International Development Committee, so I am glad that the hon. Member for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham) stressed its importance. She reflected in a poignant and personal way the practical implications for, and experiences of, the people in South Sudan. That report bears more reading and reflection. Perhaps another of the procedural tweaks or adjustments that we need to make is to ensure that when there is a quality report by a Committee, we give it time in the House. Members should not be left to busk a year later at the Backbench Business Committee in order to secure a debate such as this one.

I thank all the Members who contributed today. The hon. Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) helped secure the debate and highlighted a number of points. He praised the thinking behind the South Sudan Health Action and Research Project, or SHARP. There are questions to be asked about that project, but I do not think any of us question the motive behind it. How it translates into practice and its budgetary resource commitment and long-term backing are what is important.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) raised points that were addressed by the Minister and the shadow Minister, as did the hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz). The hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) rightly cautioned us about the need to ensure that whatever criticisms we make of UNAMID, we do not say or do anything that negates the bravery of those serving in that difficult situation.

The hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) made some very important points, and he was not in “berater” mode. He is certainly never in traitor mode, but the fact that he was not in “berater” mode was a novelty. He asked about UN resolution 1591; I am just glad it was not 1690.

The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas), rightly highlighted the importance of many issues, and put salient questions to the Minister, which he, in turn, addressed well. I was also grateful for the interventions from the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke), the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain)—who chairs the all-party group on Sudan and South Sudan—the hon. Member for Workington (Sir Tony Cunningham) and the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz).

A number of Members talked about the position of women and children in both countries. It is a salient statistic that a girl in South Sudan is three times more likely to die in childbirth than to complete primary education. South Sudan has the highest rate of maternal mortality in the world. That is why we need to be thinking about these countries and paying attention to last year’s Select Committee report. We also need to be addressing the question rightly asked by people such as the hon. Member for Wrexham: if Sudan and South Sudan are not being discussed at the G8 but other countries suffering conflict are, what is the difference? We can explain in all sorts of strategic and regional ways what the difference is, but we need to make sure that there is no difference as far as our sincerity, our motive and the level of our humanitarian commitment are concerned.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the Government’s role in supporting peace and development in Sudan and South Sudan.

Iran

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Monday 17th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Yes, my hon. Friend is right. There are many ways in which greater transparency can be demonstrated. The International Atomic Energy Agency has pointed to Iran’s failure to provide design information on the heavy water research reactor at Arak and its failure to provide substantive answers to the agency’s detailed questions on the activities undertaken at Parchin. Iran needs urgently to provide the agency with access to all the sites, equipment, persons and documents requested by the agency. There is therefore a good deal of scope for increased transparency.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The flickering prospect delivered by this result comes from the Iranian people. Does the Foreign Secretary agree that they deserve to understand that our concern to safeguard their human rights is not merely secondary to our nuclear and regional concerns? Given the abuse of the opposition and religious minorities to which he has referred, will he provide an assurance that the current circumstances will not be used by this or any other Government as an excuse to return people who have escaped from Iran and sought refugee status to a place of risk?

[Mr Hague]

The last point is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, but clearly our policy can change only if the circumstances change. The fact that there has been a certain election result does not mean that we can judge immediately that everything has changed. The hon. Gentleman is right to refer to the importance of the human rights issues. The fact that we designate individuals for human rights violations under our sanctions legislation shows how seriously we take such matters. I stress that the main issue of contention in international relations between ourselves and Iran, and between most other countries in the world and Iran, is the nuclear issue. If we could solve that, there would be many new ways in which we could work together. That does not mean that we would stop deploring human rights violations in Iran or in any other country, but solving that issue would be a major diplomatic breakthrough.

Iraq War (10th Anniversary)

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Thursday 13th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I join other Members in congratulating the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) on securing this debate. I know that considerable effort went into that, and it is good that many hon. Members have been able to share their various insights. Some Members have recalled the events in Parliament during the build-up to the vote. Others have shared their experiences of the situation in Iraq before the invasion, of delivering the invasion or of coping with the consequences of the invasion and making the best of the difficult situation that had been created for all.

Like other hon. Members, I acknowledge at the outset that we have heard some telling contributions. As well as the opening speech by the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion, which I heard only part of because of other commitments, there was a particularly telling contribution from the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas). His measured and well-meant speech got to the heart of the issue in a way that should make all of us feel uncomfortable, although in a positive way. All of us in Parliament, before we just bunch with our herd, put on our blinkers and vote the way we are asked, should think deeply about the issues. We need to inform ourselves and must not just rely on Whips’ whispers. Whatever we are paid, we are paid well enough to inform ourselves and we get a further allowance to help others inform us as well.

I was struck, as were other Members, by the speech by the hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart). I cannot match the insights of the hon. Members for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) and for South Thanet (Laura Sandys), who spoke of their personal experiences in situ and showed an understanding of many of the complications in Iraq.

Along with other politicians from Northern Ireland, I have taken part in exchange visits with Iraqi politicians and those who are trying to build civil society in Iraq. We know that the insights that we get into their situation and the aftermath of the invasion are limited. However, while I do not disagree with anything that other hon. Members have said about the poor state of Iraq, its levels of corruption and the deep economic mire that it is in, I would not want our words about those issues or the political questions that we exchange to detract from the good work that many people are undertaking in Iraq, not least those in civil society and those who are trying to build honour and purpose in what passes for the democratic process in that country. We must reinforce those who are trying to do good and take things forward in that very difficult situation. No matter how we try to write off this war and what followed it as a foreign policy and military misadventure on the part of the Government, we should not do anything to write off the democratic purpose and progressive effort that elements in Iraq are trying to undertake.

I was not a Member of the House in the period building up to the war, but I am glad to say that SDLP Members opposed the war, along with the other nationalist parties, the Liberal Democrats, a significant number of Labour Members, and some considerate Conservative Members. At the time, I was leader of my party and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, although of course we were all suspended in October 2002. During that period, however, I had a number of exchanges and meetings with Tony Blair at which—believe it or not—we talked about more than just Northern Ireland.

I recall that in November 2002, Tony Blair convened a meeting in Downing street with leaders of the European socialist and Labour parties. We were supposed to be discussing common challenges across Europe, but the working lunch that Tony Blair addressed was very much focused on Iraq. In particular, he was trying to allay the concerns that he knew were felt by members of his sister parties across the EU. I remember being struck by the argument he was making for what he was trying to do. He used language saying that he was trying to be the mooring rope that would keep the American impulse closer to where Europe would want. He said he was trying to be a bridge between America and Europe, and that was why he was getting so close to George Bush and maintaining a strong relationship with the American Administration.

He said he believed that if the Americans were committed to the war anyway there needed to be a restraint on any intervention, and he believed that his strong alliance could provide such a constraint. He argued that action could contribute to reigniting the peace process in the middle east. He felt that if America ended up going in on its own, it would be hopeless to think that anything positive could be done in the middle east, whereas if America went in with European support, the requirement that would come with that support would involve a new beginning to the peace process in the middle east.

Some around the table seemed impressed and mesmerised by that, but I was not. I made it clear—with no discourtesy to our lunch host—that I was not there to admire Tony the bridge, and neither did I believe that what he saw as a mooring rope was how the Americans saw things. From my visits to Washington it was clear that they saw him not as a mooring rope, but as a tow rope by which they hoped to take as much of Europe as they could, and they did not care if Europe was ruptured in the process. In my broad political movement of European sister parties I could see exactly where the strains were showing.

I should acknowledge that whatever criticisms anybody may have, Tony Blair did make a significant contribution to our process, although not as much of one as some of his writings and memoirs suggest, as they seem to write out the fact that everybody else made contributions as well. I did not always agree with his judgment and I certainly never always trusted his word, but I never doubted his motives in relation to our process. I am, however, as confounded as anybody else as to how he got himself into such a position and the mental convolutions of his rationale on Iraq.

I had the opportunity to talk to both Tony Blair and George Bush in Hillsborough in the weeks after the invasion of Iraq. I was the first party leader to protest at the fact that George Bush’s visit to Hillsborough conflated meetings on the Irish peace process with meetings on the prosecution of the war in Iraq. Despite attempts by the Northern Ireland Office and the British Government to limit or put conditions on people’s presence in Hillsborough, I was allowed to present a petition of two wallpaper scrolls, which was organised by Amnesty International in the Foyle constituency and the north-west region more widely. The petition was not simply a protest against the war; as we would expect from a thoughtful organisation such as Amnesty International, the petition focused on the responsibilities that the invading powers had to the civilian population in Iraq—their duties were not just observing human rights and security, but ensuring infrastructure, utilities and the proper operation of commercial or other transactions.

Protocol did not allow me to hand the petition to the President of the United States, as he was a visiting Head of State. Instead, the two scrolls rested on a chair. I was able to tell the President they were there for him. Not entirely condescendingly, he told me, “You’re a good man, Mark, but you’re wrong and we are right and we are proving it.” Richard Haass, who worked at the State Department and was a special envoy to Northern Ireland, said, “You will see. We will have this finished in weeks.” I asked, “Will we have proof of the weapons?” He said, “Yes, we will have that in weeks, too.”

Looking on was a frowning Tony Blair, who looked a bit peeved and a bit jealous. He was obviously annoyed that I had taken that opportunity. I said to him, “Don’t worry, Tony, we haven’t forgotten about you,” and gave him two large bags of postcards containing similar protests and making similar points. Richard Haass probably genuinely believed what he told me. I therefore do not know whether I can join in the sweeping judgments against everybody involved and all parties to the enterprise, which led to such death.

A number of hon. Members have mentioned the parliamentary aspect. We have heard hon. Members’ recollections, including those of the right hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher), of the considerations and conditioning going into the vote. In my time in Parliament, that same occasion was recalled by Frank Cook, then the hon. Member for Stockton North, when the House voted on 42-day detention. He compared the whipping and briefing that day—he was told, “If you don’t vote for this, the Prime Minister will be forced to resign and it will be a humiliation. Out of loyalty to the Prime Minister, you have to vote for this, otherwise there will be an election”—with the arguments to which he was subjected on the day of the Iraq vote. He said that succumbing to those arguments on the day of the Iraq vote was the biggest regret of his life, and that he would never make that mistake again for any Prime Minister or party.

The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion made a key point. We want to ensure that there will be votes in future, but we must ensure that they are honest and honourable. Free votes ensure that people cannot turn round and say, “I voted how I did because it was a vote of confidence. I was opposed to what I voted for, but I voted on a different issue. The issue was confidence and whether we stayed in government or had an election.” We need to ensure not only that there are votes, but that the terms on which votes are taken are the right ones. That is why, when we debated the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act 2011, I opposed any amendment that would have given the Speaker the power to decide what issues were issues of confidence. As issues of confidence can trigger an election and abort a fixed-term Parliament, they would have been abused to confuse what Members were actually voting on. Members would have been told to vote not on the issue, but on whether they wanted an election next week, or their leader out.

On the Chilcot inquiry, I met John Chilcot in the context of the Northern Ireland peace process. Again, I would give a mixed account of his contribution. I worked and talked with him very early on in the Hume-Adams process, and he was encouraging of new engagement and new lines of dialogue opening up between the British Government and all interests in Northern Ireland. After the Castlereagh break-in, he was appointed by the Government to undertake an independent inquiry into it. As I pointed out in a previous debate in the House, his report did not deal with findings on what had happened, how it had happened and who had been involved. Instead, it came up with an ulterior agenda of trying to ensure that MI5 and the security services would in no way find themselves accountable to, or constrained by, the Northern Ireland policing measures introduced under the Patten report. The intention was to try to reroute intelligence policing away from the Patten model—under the chief constable—to one entirely under MI5, beyond any review by the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland, the Northern Ireland Policing Board or anybody else.

I made the point, when we discussed the establishment of the Chilcot report, that I knew John Chilcot and that he was someone in whom I could recognise skills and articulacy, but he was not someone whose phone number I would expect to find in Yellow Pages under either I for independence or C for challenging. I hope that my jaundiced judgment is proved wrong when we finally see the Chilcot inquiry report. At times during the inquiry, I was given hope that I would be proved wrong. However, we have been waiting a long time. I was particularly struck by the contribution from the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), who was able to tell us of colourful issues regarding the background, character and composition of the inquiry team. Parliament must be able fully to digest the report, not just respond immediately to a statement on the day. It must be debated subsequently.

In all future debates, as in today’s debate, we need to remember that the issue is not just about what happened here on a parliamentary or political level, and not just about the wrongs of dodgy dossiers and undue whipping. The real issue is the story of what happened to the people in Iraq: the people who were sent out in the name of this Parliament and sacrificed their lives and limbs. They and their loved ones are still wondering what it was all about, and I hope we are not adding to their sorrow, misery or sense of futility by speaking the truth today. The contribution by my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark) was important, because it focused on some of the legacy issues for which we in this House bear a collective responsibility. We still have a responsibility towards the people of Iraq.

Syria (EU Restrictive Measures)

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Recent conversations between my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, President Putin, Secretary of State Kerry and the Russian Foreign Minister have indicated a degree of involvement with Russia. Talking with Russia has never been off the table. Russia has great significance through its relationship with the regime in Syria, and we believe that it should now use that relationship to bring the regime to the table.

We and key allies, including the US and France, believe that lifting the arms embargo will help us to achieve the goals that I have just described. It will strengthen the hand of opposition politicians in relation to the fighters, and the hand of the moderates in relation to the extremists. It will also show that we are committed to supporting them and have the flexibility to consider further action if the regime makes a mockery of this chance for a political solution.

I want to make this Government’s position clear: no decision on arming the Syrian opposition has been taken. Amending the embargo on opposition forces would not mean that we would automatically and immediately begin arming them, although we cannot rule that out in the future; but even without acting on it, providing an exemption from the current arms embargo for opposition forces would send a powerful and timely signal to both sides. It would say to the Assad regime that a political solution is the only option, as there will be no military victory. It would tell moderate opposition forces and politicians not to lose faith in their fight against oppression or against the extremists who are seeking to capitalise on the continued instability.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Is the Minister saying that the message to the regime is that if talks do not succeed, nothing will be off the table? Some people in the opposition might interpret that as giving them a stake in ensuring that talks do not succeed, because guns and other collateral would then come into the equation. That would not help the moderates. Instead, it would help those who have a mindset of, “We’re going to be top dog, and top gun.”

[Alistair Burt]

If there were a realistic assumption on either side that the balance of arms could change sufficiently to give one side an advantage over the other so that there was a point to continuing the slaughter, the hon. Gentleman’s point would be well made, but the assessment that more and more people are making, on the ground and outside, is that a military solution is not possible. As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said yesterday, there are only two scenarios here: one is long drawn-out killing and humanitarian suffering on a massive scale, with no decisive result; the other is the peace opportunity that is now before us. I entirely take the hon. Gentleman’s point, but our argument is that, because of that assessment that there can be no military victory, let us give the moderates the sense of support and protection they might need to be flexible if conditions change. The important point is to press both sides to negotiations and talks, because that must be successful.

We make no mistake: the regime is trying to change the balance of forces on the ground even as we talk, and will do so even as negotiators meet in Geneva. Lifting the embargo for the opposition will give us the flexibility to protect civilians, save lives and respond to a major escalation in the conflict, such as the use of chemical weapons. Even if the embargo were to be lifted, we are clear that lethal supplies would be considered only if they were a necessary, proportionate and lawful response to extreme humanitarian suffering and there was no practicable alternative. Any supplies would be carefully calibrated and monitored, as well as legal; they would be aimed at saving lives, alleviating the human catastrophe and supporting moderate groups. Our policy on Syria will continue to focus on bringing an end to the bloodshed.

Shaker Aamer

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Westminster Hall

[Kerry McCarthy]

These suggestions have been put forward by Mr Aamer and his lawyers. Obviously, there would be grave concerns if that were the case. We also know that defamation cases are going on in terms of other suggestions that have been made against him.

Mr Aamer not been charged; that has come out during the debate. Perhaps we could understand it if he were being held without charge just while investigations were proceeding, and there were reasons that could not be revealed to anyone for why he was being held without trial, but he has been cleared for release. That is what people find baffling. It is estimated that 86 of the remaining prisoners have been cleared for release. Mr Aamer was first cleared under the Bush presidency in 2007 and subsequently by President Obama’s Administration in 2009.

The fact that Guantanamo detainees are held indefinitely, without the right to a fair trial, is itself a serious affront to international human rights standards. Indeed, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights has condemned Guantanamo Bay, asserting:

“The continuing indefinite incarceration of many of the detainees amounts to arbitrary detention and is in clear breach of international law”.

She also referred to,

“the systematic abuse of individuals’ human rights”.

It is not only prisoners’ detention that is of such concern to human rights campaigners, but the reports of their treatment, which Mr Aamer’s lawyer has described as “gratuitous torture”. We have heard accounts of that.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Does my hon. Friend share the conclusion that many of us have reached: that this man continues to be detained, not because of any evidence against him, but because of the evidence that he can offer against the torture system that he has experienced, including the complicity of British intelligence services? Does she also appreciate that there is suspicion that the American authorities say they are getting one message from the political wing of the British Government, but getting very different, and damnable, messages from the intelligence wing of the British Government?

[Kerry McCarthy]

All hon. Members in this Chamber, with the exception perhaps of the Minister, can only speculate about the reasons why Mr Aamer has not been released. I hope that the Minister will tell us all that he can about the discussions that have taken place about the reasons given for his continued detention.

I do not think that the suggestion that Mr Aamer would be likely to be involved in terrorism activities, or would in any way be a danger to the public if he returned to Britain, holds water. As has been said, the other people who have returned to this country have not been involved in such activity. As far as I know, that has not been alleged.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

9. What recent assessment he has made of the security situation in South Sudan.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mark Simmonds)]

Much of South Sudan has enjoyed improved security over the past year, but we are concerned about violence in Jonglei, including the recent attack on a UN convoy in which 12 peacekeepers and civilians died. We are supporting community reconciliation efforts and urging the Government to prioritise the protection of civilians.

[Mark Durkan]

I thank the Minister for that answer. Have the Government been able to form any reliable assessment of recent events in Eastern Equatoria, particularly the alleged killings by the army in Lorema hospital? Obviously those alleged events follow the recent killing of members of the governor’s bodyguard, but there are divergent accounts and allegations. Have the Government been able to give credence to any side’s version of events?

[Mark Simmonds]

We are still trying to assess the detail of exactly what happened and to untangle the different stories emanating from that part of southern Sudan. There needs to be recognition that significant progress has been made and that a key part of finding a lasting solution to the tension between South Sudan and North Sudan is the implementation of the agreement that was announced at the United Nations General Assembly last year.

Syria

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Wednesday 6th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

It is not for us to decide who is in power in any other country, including in Syria. It is the position of the Syrian National Coalition and all opposition groups that they want to see the departure of President Assad, but we will not be more like the Syrian opposition than the Syrian opposition. Mr al-Khatib has said that he is prepared to negotiate with the regime without Assad going first and that is a position we should support. It is impossible for any observer of these events to see President Assad ever again being able to unify or govern the country, so we say he should go, but the opposition has offered to negotiate and that is the right thing to do.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

It is clear that the House shares the sense of humanitarian urgency that the Foreign Secretary has articulated so well, but many are also concerned that that urgency should not entail a working disregard for the true character and real agenda of some of the opposition forces. May I acknowledge the particular principles expressed by the Foreign Secretary today? Our foreign policy is inseparable from upholding human rights, protecting lives and supporting international law; we must assist the genuine moderate and democratic forces who are in dire need of help and who feel abandoned by the international community; and we cannot look the other way while international law and human rights are flouted. When will we see those principles manifested in the Government’s engagement in other situations, including Palestine?

Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

To be clear, the Israeli response is to the passing of the Palestinian resolution, not to the UK abstention; the hon. Gentleman may have misunderstood the motivation behind Israel’s policy, which clearly relates to the passing of the resolution.

As to the implications for future relations with the EU, provided that there is a major initiative on the peace process, in particular from Washington, we will all have to work out the “incentives and disincentives” that we can create to support that. But of course that is work to be done over the coming weeks and months.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

10. What assessment he has made of reported clashes between Sri Lankan security forces and Jaffna university students and the situation of those who have been arrested and detained.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt)]

We are concerned about the attacks on students at Jaffna university in November last year. Our high commissioner has expressed those concerns to the authorities in Sri Lanka, and we continue to monitor the detention of those students. We take every opportunity to raise human rights concerns with the Government of Sri Lanka, and I will raise those concerns, including this case, when I visit Sri Lanka fairly shortly.

[Mark Durkan]

I thank the Minister for his answer and his personal engagement. The attacks and arrests took place on the day after Tamil remembrance day. The region is highly militarised and even this week the Sri Lankan Parliament is looking at legislation to extend detention without warrant. When the Minister visits Sri Lanka next week, will he tell the regime there that he will not be persuaded by the language of reconciliation that it offers the diplomatic community, given that it offers only an arsenal of repression to the Tamil community?

[Alistair Burt]

The hon. Gentleman puts his case well. I expect to have straightforward private conversations with the Sri Lankan authorities. I will make the point that if reconciliation is to mean anything, a straightforward gesture such as converting the current triumphal expressions following the end of the war into a day of national reconciliation, as recommended by the lessons learned and reconciliation committee, would be a good step forward and perhaps start to defuse the tension, an increase of which would be very unwelcome.