Faulty Tumble Dryers (Fire Risk)

Margot James Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Margot James)]

This debate has been very illuminating for me. I am sorry that the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter) was alarmed by my response earlier at BEIS questions. I congratulate him on obtaining this important debate. If that is how he speaks as a newcomer to a subject, goodness knows what he is like when he is focused on a subject on which he is an acknowledged expert. Listening to his speech, I learned a great deal.

I thank other hon. Members for their contributions. The hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris), chair of the all-party parliamentary group on home electrical safety, made the point clearly that safety is paramount. Her view is that the system is not delivering. I was struck by the remarks of my hon. Friend the Member for South Leicestershire (Alberto Costa), who is justifiably outraged that his letters to the chief executive of Whirlpool have met with no response, which is at odds with my own experience. I seem to have obtained a letter from Mr Pettorino unsolicited. I propose to share some of that letter with the House so that hon. Members can take a view as to the veracity of its contents, which I found reassuring. I asked one of my officials to contact the relevant authority— Peterborough trading standards —to check the contents of the letter, and I was reassured that they felt it was a true and fair picture.

I should first, of course, mention that I was very shocked to hear about the terrible fire in Shepherd’s Bush and the fate of Debbie Defreitas, without whose prescient action the situation could have been a lot, lot worse. I read the fire officer’s report to the effect that the fire occurred at about half-past four in the afternoon. Had it occurred in the middle of the night, he feels certain that there would have been fatalities. There is no doubt that it was a very serious incident, and I send my sympathy to the constituents of the hon. Member for Hammersmith—particularly those who have not even been able to return to their homes.

Although the number of tumble dryers in use continues to rise, the number of fires resulting from their use has remained constant. I did quote some figures at BEIS questions earlier today. Although we have heard terrible reports this evening, I really should put it on record again that, of the five Whirlpool products that are mainly sold in Britain, 5 million were sold over the course of a year. There were 750 fire incidents, most of which were contained within the machine. That represents 0.02% of all the sales of each individual product. That is a very small percentage, but I accept that 750 fires is a high number, even though most of them were contained within the machine.

[Jim Shannon]

Another example—not to do with white goods—is cars where there is a safety issue. The manufacturer recalls every one of the cars—every one of the models—irrespective of how many there has been a problem with. With respect to the Minister, the firm should be recalling every one of these models, not just a small percentage.

[Margot James]

The hon. Gentleman is quite right that there are circumstances where a fault identified in a car would result in a complete product recall; indeed, there are circumstances that would lead to a complete product recall of white goods as well. It does depend on the nature of the fault in the car, as it does depend on the risk assessment with the white goods.

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Margot James]

I will give way once more, and then I really must conclude my remarks.

[Kevin Foster]

Would the Minister agree that one of the big issues is that, even where there is a recall, the average success rate in the UK is 10% to 20%? Despite websites like the one run by the Electrical Safety Council through its Electrical Safety First charity, if there is only a 10% to 20% success rate, we are, even with a recall, still going to have many products out there.

[Margot James]

I thank my hon. Friend for that very helpful intervention. I did speak to the Hertfordshire trading standards authority about another firm’s tumble dryer in August. It pointed out that total product recalls are never total, and my hon. Friend quoted the statistic. One can be lulled into a false sense of security by a total product recall, which is in fact, using the statistics my hon. Friend quoted, getting back only one in four goods—just a quarter. It is not easy to reach enough of the population who may have purchased one of these machines.

I am going to come on to the work that is being done following the Lynn Faulds Wood report, which was mentioned very helpfully by the hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue). In response to the question from the hon. Member for Hammersmith, the steering group has met twice. It is industry-led, but it also has representation from the Chief Fire Officers Association. The group works closely with officials from my Department who provide a secretariat function. It is primarily focusing on three work strands: establishing a centre of excellence, or official website, for business and the public, very much along the lines that the hon. Member for Makerfield called for; considering how to ensure that we have more reliable, detailed guidance on product recalls, which would, I hope, improve the rate of recall from its current one in four success rate; and establishing a mapping process whereby all organisations involved in product recalls can have access to better data and information sharing.

There will be regular updates on the work of the group, including progress on the new website. Hon. Members will be able to see that information posted on gov.uk very shortly. As a result of this debate and what I have read in the press prior to coming here this evening, I have asked my officials to arrange for me to meet the chair of the steering group and the member from the Chief Fire Officers Association. Although they have set themselves a timeline of reporting within two years, I will be asking them at least to produce an interim report, in a much shorter timeframe, with measures that the Government can then consider implementing without further delay.

I will say a little word about Peterborough Council’s trading standards. I accept that there can be an issue, in that we have very good, well-qualified expert people working for a relatively small organisation in Peterborough dealing with a large multinational company. However, trading standards in this country is respected around the world, so I would not want to dismiss its expertise for one minute. It has been the lead regulator for Whirlpool and has agreed the full risk assessment carried out by the company.

[Alberto Costa]

I would not wish to cast any aspersions on trading standards. I am sure that the Minister is as familiar as I am with washing one’s clothes and placing them in a tumble dryer. Is it safe to put clothes in a tumble dryer only if one is present while they are drying, as we have been told? If she agrees that it is not practicable with today’s lifestyles to stand looking at one’s tumble dryer, then surely she will agree that the product is not safe and that she should therefore communicate again with trading standards on a more appropriate response to this matter.

[Margot James]

I have been in contact with trading standards, and to date I have been satisfied with its approach. The advice and guidance through the process of modification that Whirlpool is implementing whereby one has to attend the tumble dryer while it is carrying out its operation is certainly inconvenient—I would be the first to admit that. If one has dual meters so that machines can be put on overnight, that does not help with energy conservation. However, I am not yet persuaded that the product is necessarily unsafe, because the very few fires overall in terms of the 5 million machines that have been sold have mostly been contained within the machine. On being present, bearing in mind what trading standards believes to be a very low risk, I think that the advice is reasonable given that a total product recall is unlikely to get back more than one in four machines.

[Andy Slaughter]

rose—

[Margot James]

As it is the hon. Gentleman’s debate, I will give way one last time.

[Andy Slaughter]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, but she has not dealt with the point that I emphasised in my speech. In the Shepherd’s Bush case, which nobody says was anything other than one of the most serious fires, the machine was observed. I think she will be aware that in Australia, where the machines have exactly the same fault, the advice is that customers should cease using the product immediately. The solution to one in four being recalled is to improve the registration system, and the solution to knowing what is in Whirlpool’s mind is for it to publish its risk assessment. Those are the questions that need to be answered.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margot James]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for clarifying one of those points. I will most certainly raise what he has said with the chairman of the steering group and the fire officer when I meet them.

I want to share with the House the key points made to me by the chief executive of Whirlpool. Following its acquisition of Indesit in 2014, its global safety experts worked to review the product portfolio, proactively engaged with trading standards, shared with it all relevant information available and sought its determination on what action to take. Trading standards subsequently determined that corrective action was required and that a modification programme was necessary to resolve the issue. Since then, Whirlpool has been in continual dialogue with the trading standards authority. Alongside a wides- pread safety alert and information campaign, including adverts in the national press, it rapidly engaged with customers and set up a dedicated phone line and websites and an online model-checker for consumers to instantly find out whether they had an affected appliance. It is continuing its efforts to identity all owners of the affected models and to contact them directly by all of the usual means. In addition to direct consumer outreach, it has continued to work with retail and trade partners to identify the machines involved and to communicate with owners.

[Alberto Costa]

But it ignores MPs.

[Margot James]

In reading this out, I am acutely conscious that my hon. Friend has not received a reply to his letter. Whirlpool engineers are visiting more than 4,000 homes a day across the UK and, as of today, it has resolved more than 805,000 customer cases. I am assured by Peterborough trading standards that that is true and, although the mood in the Chamber tonight is hostile to Whirlpool, that is quite a creditable performance and not to be lightly dismissed. It is continually looking into additional ways to improve the efficiency of the programme, and I am sure that tonight’s debate will have illuminated a few of those additional ways. It is increasing the number of engineers all the time—it has increased its team of engineers by more than 45%.

It is true to say that Whirlpool, for all its faults in communicating with my hon. Friend, is making a concerted effort to deal with the safety of these appliances. I accept from everything that has been said in this debate that we need rapidly to get on top of the issue. I will, as I have promised the hon. Member for Hammersmith, meet the relevant people, talk specifically to representatives of Peterborough trading standards, and convey to them the mood of the House and the concerns of hon. Members. Although statistically the risk of the 5 million machines that have been sold may be very low, people have been killed by them. As the Minister with responsibility for consumer rights, that is obviously something that I will take extremely seriously. In conclusion, I thank the hon. Gentleman again for this timely debate.

Question put and agreed to.