Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jeremy Quin

Thursday 16th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Quin]

I agree with my hon. Friend that it is essential that we get value for money from the investments we make in our people. There is a role for well-paid people to deliver important projects for the people of this country, but I assure him that any payments above £150,000—that covers the entire remuneration package, not just the salary—must be not only justified by the relevant Department, but personally signed off by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who takes a very close interest in such matters.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Ministers have lifted the cap on consultancy spending for Government Departments at a time when many members of the public are struggling to pay bills or put food on the table. Uncapping the spend on consultancy fees, rather than investing in building and nurturing internal civil service talent, may be short-sighted. Will the Minister reinstate the cap and instead focus on the internal development of skills?

[Jeremy Quin]

There is a difference between a cap and a control, and it is up to Departments to ensure that they are getting value for money in what they spend. Cutting bureaucracy and cutting exercises that take up a lot of civil service time but that are not productive is a good thing. There is a role for consultancy, alongside growing and nurturing the resources inside the service. It is important that we always get value for money, but that is best generated by having a Department that is laser-focused on value for money in what it is spending and on why it is spending it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jeremy Quin

Thursday 2nd February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

The Institute for Government has suggested that publishing more policy advice from officials, publicly, would improve transparency, ministerial engagement and analysis. What assessment have Ministers made of that recommendation, and will it be implemented?

[Jeremy Quin]

Every Minister relies on good and honest advice from our officials, and we are blessed with just that. It is up to Ministers to determine how that policy is then prosecuted, and to stand up to represent and defend it, and I believe that we need to preserve the privacy between the advice received and the decisions made by the Government. We as Ministers are responsible. I am grateful for the advice I receive, and I do not expect civil servants to defend it. I have to take the decision and I have to defend the advice, and I would rather stick to that position when it comes to how we are accountable to this place.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jeremy Quin

Thursday 27th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Quin]

I agree with my hon. Friend, and I can give him that assurance. We want civil service apprenticeship levels to grow in line with the local civil service workforce in every region of the UK. As I say, some 78% of our apprentices are outside London. In Yorkshire alone, we have already created 3,800 apprenticeship opportunities since 2016. That is good news for the apprentices, good news for Yorkshire and good news for our public service.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

The Government have moved 933 jobs from London to Scotland since March 2020. The Cabinet Office’s Glasgow HQ is set to more than double its presence by 2025. What steps are Ministers taking to ensure that, within this relocation, a proportionate number of high-quality apprenticeships are made available in Glasgow?

[Jeremy Quin]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. I agree that it is great news that the Cabinet Office, among other Government Departments, is relocating jobs to Scotland. We have a hub in Glasgow; the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office and many other Departments also have a Scottish hub. That is good news. I have been assured that our UK apprenticeship programmes are available across the UK, and I believe that we are in dialogue with the Scottish Government. Where we can work together to provide good apprenticeship opportunities across the public sector, that must be a good thing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill will have impacts that require a dedicated and well resourced workforce like the civil service to deliver its goals and prevent complications. What assessment have Ministers made of headcounts to ensure project deliverability?

[Jeremy Quin]

We will always make certain that we have the right resources and the right civil service support to ensure that we continue to govern appropriately and that laws passed by this place and the other place are put into effect.

Bearskin Hats: Queen's Guards

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jeremy Quin

Monday 11th July 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jeremy Quin]

I can perhaps help the hon. Gentleman by explaining the pathway that we have already trodden, right up until today, and we can see where we can go from there.

[Margaret Ferrier]

While we have been in this debate, I have contacted PETA and can confirm that its representatives are ready and waiting to meet the Minister, and ECOPEL’s offer still stands. They can bring the prototype hat to the meeting and samples of other faux fur. Is the Minister willing to meet PETA and ECOPEL to go through the options?

[Jeremy Quin]

Let me go through what we are doing. Finding a faux fur alternative is not without its challenges. Until 2007, research into faux fur replacements was conducted by Defence Clothing. It looked at more than 50 different types that used many different fibres in many combinations, both synthetic and natural. None were found to be acceptable and many created static and the fur stood on end.

In 2007, PETA submitted two samples that MOD agreed should be looked at in detail. A number of test methods were developed to compare the faux fur with real fur and assess its performance. Both samples were rejected as they allowed water penetration, did not shed water but absorbed it and did not shake it off.

Some seven years later, in 2014, PETA approached the MOD about submitting more faux fur samples and understandably wanted to know the required parameters. The tests devised previously were formalised and agreed with PETA as the starting point that the faux fur had to meet before being considered as a replacement.It was agreed that the test house would be Intertek and that the MOD would be sent a copy of any report.

In 2018, PETA submitted a sample to Intertek that was not taken forward as it showed unacceptable water penetration. In 2019, PETA submitted a sample to Intertek that had improved water-penetration results. However, although the water penetration was greatly reduced, the wet appearance was unacceptable, with rat-tails and dripping. The sample was not passed to the MOD to verify. In February 2020, PETA submitted a sample to Intertek that had greatly reduced water penetration but, again, a poor wet look.

Another sample was tested in December 2020 and there was nil penetration, although there were still problems with appearance. In 2021, the testing house shared its report with the MOD. I am afraid we do not have any detail on the fabric or the supplier, or the technical details, such as how to seal stitch holes and any seams needed to retain the waterproof barrier. It is yet to be established whether the sample could be formed over the wicker framework to resemble a real fur, and a trial is needed to gauge performance in use. For example, does the material succumb to static problems? What does it look like if it is wet? I was pleased to hear from the hon. Member for Bury South (Christian Wakeford) that a faux fur bearskin over a wicker frame has now been created, which sounds like good news. I was not aware of that before this debate.

Earlier this year, PETA issued another report, in conjunction with its campaign, claiming that all five tests that the MOD require have now been proven in the use of faux fur. Thus far, however, we are unsighted on the latest test results.

I wish to calm down excited Members but give them encouragement. The hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) said that it was taking a long time to change policy. There is no policy issue here to be concerned about. If there is a faux fur alternative that works and overcomes the hurdles I have described, we will look quickly at affordability, sustainability and the other boxes that we need to tick. There is no opposition at all to the idea of using faux fur if it can be proved to work. As I say, in other circumstances we have actively and willingly embraced faux fur alternatives. We would be keen to see whether faux fur works in this instance.

The hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk said that there are questions to answer; if PETA helps us to answer those questions by providing to the experts in the Ministry of Defence the material—the faux fur bearskin—that PETA has created, we will without doubt have a look and consider the results seriously.

The House can rest assured that we will continue to keep these matters under review and, as I say, if PETA or any other body wishes to share the details of any tests with us, those details will be analysed. The best way to help to make us use faux fur in future is to share with us the data. If the data proves to be right and we can genuinely believe that there will be a viable faux fur alternative, we will be happy to take it forward and then test it against sustainability, affordability and other criteria.

At the moment, however, the jury is out. We need to see the results of the tests, which have not yet been shared with us, and evidence that faux fur can be made to work and can hit our five criteria. If we have that evidence, we will happily take faux fur on, but that is the hurdle that we need to get over, and it is in the hands of others. We are willing to receive any information.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jeremy Quin

Monday 20th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Quin]

Absolutely; it did play a key role. It is a very valuable asset, alongside others, including the A400M, which also has a connection with my hon. Friend’s constituency. I have visited his constituency, where there are great skills in the defence sector. I was delighted to make that announcement and I am delighted to see that investment going into that part of our country.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the impact of the introduction of operational MGS—MOD Guard Service—employment contracts on levels of staff fatigue and security at UK military bases?

Ajax Programme

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jeremy Quin

Tuesday 8th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Quin]

I am so glad that my right hon. Friend asks that question, because it requires a very simple answer: absolutely. Unfortunately, as he rightly says, there has been a long pattern of delays with the project, but we are not going to take into service something that does not meet our requirements. It is a firm price contract; we need to have it right, and take it into service when it is right to do that. We are not going to obfuscate in order to do so.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind) [V]]

There are reports in the media citing the leaked Government report on the procurement of Ajax tanks and stating that

“the problems were known to the army as early as 2017, but they”—

the MOD—

“didn’t admit them due to embarrassment.”

Does the Minister agree that it would be far more embarrassing, and a failure in the duty of care to our defence personnel, if the Ajax programme went ahead without finding the root cause or mitigating these serious defects?

[Jeremy Quin]

I agree with the hon. Lady that we need to find the root cause of the defects—that is absolutely right—or at least, we have to first identify that there are defects and then make certain that we have resolved them. I think that would be a fairer way to put it, and that is what a lot of the testing is doing right now. On when these problems first occurred, I do not think awareness of them came from the Infrastructure and Projects Authority report. I have been aware from social media sources of a suggestion that the Army was aware back in 2017. That has not been my experience, having looked into it. The concerns over vibration are a far more recent occurrence.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Jeremy Quin

Monday 24th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Quin]

Absolutely not. I can reassure my hon. Friend that, as he recognises, international programmes are hugely important to defence and we will continue to engage with our friends and allies. To name but two, Boxer and FCAS—the future combat air system—are international collaborations, and they are bringing thousands of skilled jobs to the west midlands, to the north-west and throughout the UK.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

What estimate he has made of the cost of the UK nuclear warhead replacement project.