Homelessness Reduction Bill (Sixth sitting)

Debate between Marcus Jones and Michael Tomlinson

Committee Debate: 6th sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 18th January 2017 Public Bill Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Marcus Jones)]

The Government welcome the introduction of greater protection for vulnerable persons placed in the private sector under the new homelessness prevention and relief duties. Existing legislation already requires local housing authorities to be satisfied that accommodation is suitable when exercising their part 7 functions on homelessness and the prevention of homelessness in relation to factors such as size of accommodation, affordability and accessibility. I hear what my hon. Friend said and I will certainly go into more depth on his important points. I feel under a little pressure from Conservative Members and get the impression that they have reflected on the comments of the hon. Member for Westminster North, who talked much the same language at our previous sitting.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East said, when making an offer in the private rented sector for those in priority need under the main homelessness duty, existing legislation also requires local housing authorities to make additional checks to ensure the property is in a reasonable physical condition, and is safe and well managed. The points to be considered are set out in the Homelessness (Suitability of Accommodation) (England) Order 2012. Local authorities are therefore already used to making those checks and reputable landlords should be readily able to provide the requisite documentation.

I heard the comments of my hon. Friends the Members for Colchester and for Chippenham. They are quite right to say that most landlords are extremely responsible and do the right thing by tenants, but we know that 3% of landlords are rogues and do not do the right thing by their tenants. Frankly, the Government want to drive them out of renting property, particularly to vulnerable people. We have taken significant steps to drive out those rogue landlords through the Housing and Planning Act 2016. I will not go into the detail of that Act.

[Michael Tomlinson]

Before the Minister moves on to what the Government are already doing, if I understood and heard him correctly, he said that they deem only 3% of landlords to be rogue landlords. Perhaps he could clarify where that evidence comes from, but if he is right, does he not agree that it is a matter of balance—of making sure that we are not punishing those landlords who are doing a perfectly good job already, and potentially deterring and putting off other people from becoming landlords and providing much-needed accommodation?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. A number of studies have been done around this issue, and that is where the figure of 3% comes from. As Members of this House—I am not, personally, a residential landlord but I know other Members who are—it is easy for us not to understand the challenges of being a residential landlord. The last thing we want to do is drive residential landlords out of the market so that we have less rental property for the people who we are trying to help to access good accommodation.

[Mr Jones]

I hear what the hon. Lady says, but my understanding of what I have heard this morning is that Government Members, including myself, are extremely concerned to make sure that people who are vulnerable have the right accommodation and are supported in accessing it. The hon. Lady was on the Housing and Planning Bill Committee in late 2015, before the Bill became an Act in 2016, so she will know that local authorities now have a real incentive to tackle rogue landlords. If that legislation leads to our identifying more rogue landlords because they are genuinely rogue, so be it. That is a good thing as far as I am concerned.

[Michael Tomlinson]

I do not disagree with what the hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood said, save for this: 3% is a relatively small number. To my mind, one rogue landlord is one rogue landlord too many—I am very happy to put that on record. Perhaps the Minister has other evidence of a second tier of bad landlords that do not reach rogue status and therefore are not in that top 3% but may be below it. Either way, the point from this side—certainly, I speak for myself—is that one rogue landlord is one rogue landlord too many, but 3% is relatively small and there should be a balance in relation to this clause and the whole Bill.

[Mr Jones]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. The legislation in relation to rogue landlords means that civil penalties of up to £30,000 can be levied against them. Those civil penalties can be retained by the local authority to put towards the enforcement that they make in this regard. There are strong powers there, which is a good thing if there is a second division of rogue landlords that we need to uncover. However, my hon. Friend is right: we need to get a balance.

Homelessness Reduction Bill (Seventh sitting)

Debate between Marcus Jones and Michael Tomlinson

Committee Debate: 7th sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 18th January 2017 Public Bill Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Marcus Jones)]

When we broke at the last sitting, I was coming on to the subject of written warnings. I nearly got one this morning, I detected, but was very fortunate that I evaded the wrath of the Chair.

We would expect that before a local housing authority issued a written warning, it would make all reasonable efforts to engage the individual, explore the reasons for their failure to act and try to re-establish a co-operative relationship. Following that written warning, if the applicant continued deliberately and unreasonably to refuse to co-operate, the local housing authority might choose to issue a notice that brings to an end its duties to prevent or relieve the applicant’s homelessness.

[Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (Con)]

I fear the Minister is about to move on. At that stage, is there not, under proposed new section 193A (3)(b), the right to request a review of that decision? The notice is therefore not necessarily the end of the piece, because the applicant may request a review if they feel they have been unfairly dealt with.

[Mr Jones]

There is, as my hon. Friend rightly points out, a right to review. I am sure he realises that I will not go into too much detail about that, because we will deal with it far more when we come to the amendments tabled to the clause on Report.

Where a local housing authority has brought its duty to an end in this way, and the applicant was made homeless through no fault of their own and is in priority need, the authority will be required to make a final offer of a private sector tenancy of at least six months. The Government will review and update the homelessness code of guidance to provide clear guidance on how that will work in practice. As I said, that will include guidance on the meaning of “deliberately and unreasonably” refusing to co-operate.

Guidance will be developed in consultation with stakeholders across local government and the charity sector to ensure that it is clear and fair. We had quite a lengthy debate about that this morning and will discuss it on Report, so I will not go into it any further. We must ensure that the provisions are clear and fair, and that we minimise as far as possible the risk of someone failing to get the support they need. We will also work closely with stakeholders across local government to develop further regulations relating to the process that local housing authorities should follow. As colleagues have said, that is key to getting this right.

This is an important part of the Bill and of driving the cultural change we want, so that local housing authorities and individuals work together for the best outcome within a framework that is clear and fair, with a balance of responsibilities. Although the need for amendments is disappointing for all of us, the importance of the clause drives my determination to make the amendments that the Committee expects.

[Michael Tomlinson]

I hope the Minister will at some stage address the point that not only I but a number of colleagues made about the particular circumstances and needs of the applicant. I understand that we will have an opportunity to look at the clause when it is rewritten, but we were invited by the Bill’s promoter to make particular representations on those parts of the clause that we think should remain in it. Does the Minister agree that new section 193A(6) is an important part of it? Even if we do not use exactly these words, we should look at the applicant’s particular circumstances and needs when assessing whether he or she has unreasonably refused to co-operate.

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. We will deal with this in far more detail on Report.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 7 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 1

Meaning of “homeless” and “threatened with homelessness”

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[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. It has been said outside this Committee many times and in the discussions I have had, particularly on the amendments we are looking to make to clause 7, that the housing market in England and particularly in London is very different from that in Wales. We can certainly draw many parallels with the Welsh legislation and have confidence that, in many ways, this legislation will have a very positive effect. On whether it will have the significant effect it has had in Wales, I make two points. First, local authorities in England were already better, in general, at preventing homelessness than those in Wales before the legislation was introduced; we need to take that point on board. Secondly, our assumptions—particularly on cost, which I will come to later—have been based very much on an acknowledgment that the housing market is very different in England, and particularly London and the south of the country.

[Michael Tomlinson]

Is not the point about clause 1 that all these notices are meant to be mandatory? The local authority will have confidence that it will be giving advance help, or that there will be more warning, in the knowledge that when the notice is provided, it will eventually lead to a possession order and therefore homelessness.

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[Mr Jones]

There have been infinite discussions about this clause and the others. I think that, generally, the clause has been accepted readily by most people involved, particularly on the local authority side and by the Local Government Association. Generally that is because people recognise that if we gear our help to being upstream, rather than waiting for a housing crisis, that will significantly reduce the cost of helping people, but more important than the cost, it will put people in a far better position as individuals than would have been the case otherwise.

The end of a private rented sector tenancy is currently the main trigger for homelessness, so the Government commend the amendment as a way to ensure that valuable opportunities to prevent homelessness are not lost and that households are more likely to receive the help that they need at the right time. The amendment balances the need for flexibility for local housing authorities with recognition of the legitimate concerns of landlords and homelessness charities. Clear guidance will be issued to set out in more detail how that flexibility should be used.

[Michael Tomlinson]

With respect, the Minister is slightly skating over the significance of the amendment he tabled. It sweeps away any section 8 notices as well. He says he consulted landlords and other bodies, but perhaps he could deal with this, because section 8 notices can be mandatory as well. Why do only section 21 notices remain under the amendment? Why have section 8 notices been swept aside?

[Mr Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for bringing that up. I will deal with that at the appropriate point.

As I said, the amendment balances the need for flexibility for local housing authorities with recognition of the concerns of landlords and homelessness charities, and clear guidance will be issued. I can confirm that to ensure that applicants threatened with homelessness due to the issuing of a section 21 notice receive continuous help and support through the prevention and relief duties, the Government plan to table an amendment on Report to clause 4—the prevention duty. That will require that while the applicant remains in the same property, the prevention duty continues to operate until such time as the local authority brings it to an end for one of the reasons set out in clause 4, even if 56 days have passed. In an ideal world, if we were dealing with the Bill in the usual order, I would have tabled that amendment once we had debated clause 1, in advance of the debate on clause 4. Regrettably, because of the timetabling and the challenges we had with clause 1, I was not able to do that, which I apologise for. Unlike with clause 7, that could not have been avoided at all.

The prevention duty may be brought to an end because, for example, agreement is reached by a tenant to stay in the property for at least a further six months; alternative suitable accommodation has been secured for the household; they have become homeless and eligible for the relief duty; or they have withdrawn their application. The amendment to clause 4 will address a concern raised by some charities that there may be cases where the 56-day prevention duty period has run out but the household is unfortunately still at risk of homelessness. They may not yet be homeless and would therefore, in some instances, not be covered by the relief duty.

To complement that change to the legislation, the Government will take other action to encourage people at risk of homelessness to present earlier to their local authority. We will amend form 6A, which is used to evict tenants through section 21, and amend the “How to Rent” guide to include information encouraging tenants to seek help earlier when they receive a section 21 notice and believe they are at risk of homelessness as a result.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for that kind offer. The Select Committee has taken an active role in the Bill—in fact, as he is well aware, a number of changes have been made as a direct result of its intervention. We will certainly look to review the policy and how it is working in practice once there has been time for the system to bed in. Bear in mind that the policy will not be implemented on the day that the Bill gets Royal Assent; it will be reviewed ahead of the new burdens assessment in the 2021 financial year. New burdens reviews do not lead to automatic recoupment of overpayments. Any review will be based on assumptions and estimates, although informed by experience on the ground. The actual policy cost may differ between local authorities, depending on how they choose to implement it. That is an important point, which we need to take into account.

[Michael Tomlinson]

On finance, it has been indicated that several amendments will be tabled in the future. My hon. Friend the Member for Northampton South was talking about a different thing; I am talking about the specific amendments, which may place additional burdens on local authorities, that may be tabled when the Bill returns to the Floor of the House. Will the Minister look at that issue again and give reassurance on it when the time comes?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is as perceptive as ever and makes an excellent point. Clearly, amendments will be tabled on Report. I assure him that anything in those amendments that constitutes a new burden on local authorities will be dealt with in the same way. There is nothing in the statement that we have already made that is not in the Bill today. If there are any additional costs as a result of amendments tabled on Report, they will quite correctly be dealt with separately from the £48 million that we announced in our statement. I hope that gives him some reassurance.

Amendments 16 and 17 represent the best balance between the interests of tenants, landlords and local housing authorities. I believe that the schedule of new burdens costs that we have set out for the Bill is fair and we did our homework in relation to the calculation of those costs. The clause is part of the excellent package that my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East has brought together with the support of the Select Committee, the Government, housing charities, and in the main local authorities. I am pleased to propose that the Committee supports the amendments and clause 1 as amended.

Homelessness Reduction Bill (Fourth sitting)

Debate between Marcus Jones and Michael Tomlinson

Committee Debate: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 14th December 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Michael Tomlinson]

Perhaps you will permit me, Mr Chope, before I comment on clause 5, to thank the Chairman of the Select Committee, who, through the Clerk to the Bill Committee, made Daisy-May Hudson’s film available to all of us who do not sit on that Committee. It was both compelling and difficult to watch, and it was illuminating for those of us who had not seen it before.

I suppose that we all sincerely hope that if clause 4 is successful in its aim of preventing homelessness, when there is a threat of it, clause 5 will not be needed, but I agree that it is none the less an important clause. I should welcome some clarity from the Minister and from my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East about the sort of reasonable steps that are to be expected of local authorities.

As to what the hon. Member for Hammersmith said about local authorities, I agree that they work hard and that, certainly going by my experience in Dorset—in Poole, East Dorset, and Purbeck—they are struggling with resources. I should welcome clarity on the matter of reasonable steps, although my hon. Friend suggested a few. I understand—and you know this better than any of us, Mr Chope—that it is not desirable to set out in a Bill each and every reasonable step, and that guidance may be anticipated in due course, but it would still be helpful for the Committee to understand in more detail what the reasonable steps would be.

I am sure that that clarity will be forthcoming, and in view of that I warmly support the clause.

[Mr Jones]

The Government support clause 5, which introduces a new duty to households that are homeless, known as the relief duty. It requires the local housing authority to take reasonable steps to help to secure accommodation for any eligible homeless household.

Like the new prevention duty, the relief duty extends help and support to a wider range of households. It applies to all, regardless of priority need and intentionality, and provides 56 days of help and support. It provides an additional safety net for those households for which homelessness prevention activity has not been successful. It also provides additional help for households that have sought help at a later stage.

The type of help that they receive will be based on the information identified during the assessment process, which I talked about when we discussed clause 3. The authority and the applicant would identify the reasonable steps that the applicant would take, through that process. For example, if the main issue is that a household member has left home after a relatively minor disagreement with their family and that is the only cause of their homelessness, the local authority can provide mediation to try to reunite the household. I think that is the type of example that my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole was looking for.

Households in priority need, for example those with dependent children or vulnerable for some reason, will be provided with interim accommodation for the duration of the duty. They will be placed in interim accommodation as there is an expectation that the relief duty will be successful and they might be required to move to new settled accommodation at short notice. Less time spent in interim accommodation will mean less uncertainty for the household, so they can start rebuilding their lives more quickly.

Like the prevention duty, the relief duty can come to an end in a number of different ways. Again, it might be helpful if I set out some of the most important. The way we envisage it will be most frequently ended is through help to secure accommodation. If the authority is satisfied that the applicant has suitable accommodation and there is a reasonable prospect of their retaining it for at least six months, the duty will come to an end.

The duty can also come to an end if the local authority has taken reasonable steps for a period of 56 days but those steps have not relieved homelessness. In that case, the advice and information duty persists and those in priority need can move to the main homelessness duty.

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[Mr Jones]

The housing White Paper will address many of the issues regarding supply. My hon. Friend gives me a good segue to bring my comments to an end. The relief duty will bring another level of support and assistance for households not in priority need. He is right that the Bill is an extremely important part of dealing with some of the challenges we have, but it will not be a panacea so it would probably be best if we spent more time debating the substantive clauses.

[Michael Tomlinson]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Jones]

I will give way one last time.

[Michael Tomlinson]

This is an important point. In relation to this clause, the Minister spelled out the importance of flexibility and the interplay between six-month and 12-month tenancies. Will he explain and persuade the Committee of the evidence for that? I hear the arguments from both sides of the Committee about the importance of security, but will he spell out the evidence on six-month tenancies? I hear what my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester said, but this is a crucial point.

[Mr Jones]

I think we all recognise that the ideal situation would be to have 12-month tenancies for the people we are discussing. Often they are in a very difficult position, and that additional certainty may well be very helpful to them. We also have to acknowledge that there are a number of barriers to that. I am not saying that in future we may not get to the promised land in this sense, but we have to be realistic about the current situation.

While we are talking about six-month tenancies, the measure does not preclude 12-month tenancies. As I said earlier, we are speaking to landlord groups and other stakeholders to agree things such as model tenancy agreements, so that we can get to a position where all parties come to the conclusion that 12-month tenancies are more desirable than six-month ones.

Homelessness Reduction Bill (Third sitting)

Debate between Marcus Jones and Michael Tomlinson

Committee Debate: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 7th December 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Mr Jones]

The Government do not believe that amendments 9 and 10 will have the intended effect. Rather than streamlining the reviews process, the changes would simply remove protections for applicants. They would have the effect of removing an applicant’s right to request a review of the steps the local housing authority considers reasonable for it to take to help the applicant to retain or secure accommodation, which we would not seek to do. It is only right that applicants have the opportunity of redress.

We recognise the concerns that the review process has become difficult for some authorities, but we do not believe that cutting out safeguards for vulnerable people is the best answer. We will monitor the impact of the new duties on the levels of reviews, and we will work with stakeholders, including local housing authorities, to see what improvements can be made to the process.

Taking up the general point made by the hon. Members for Hammersmith and for Westminster North, we have worked with representative groups of authorities to understand the impact of the clause and have fed that back into the costs model. I can certainly say that this and other measures in the Bill will be funded. We are in the process of speaking to the LGA to discuss our final proposals. We also need to ensure that we have got things right in relation to clause 1.

[Michael Tomlinson]

Perhaps when there is clarity on funding and with reassurance from the Minister, the amendments, and the concerns of the hon. Member for Hammersmith in relation to the clause will fall away. His amendments would emasculate the clause.

[Mr Jones]

I hope that that will be the case. I was heartened to hear that the hon. Member for Hammersmith does not propose to press the amendments to a Division. Understandably he wants to highlight the issue, but he also does not want to put something in the Bill that has the effect of taking away the rights of very vulnerable people.

We are developing a costs model around this and the other clauses in the Bill. We expect to be in a position to bring it to the Committee shortly. We need to clarify clause 1, as I have said, but after that I expect that the Committee will be able to see that we are funding this provision and other aspects of this important Bill.

Homelessness Reduction Bill (Second sitting)

Debate between Marcus Jones and Michael Tomlinson

Committee Debate: 2nd sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 30th November 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Michael Tomlinson]

My hon. Friend is right. It is about flexibility. Local authorities will have a duty under the Bill, but I would like far greater interplay between local authorities and charities. The relationship works well in some areas, as we have heard from Members on both sides of the Committee, but the aim of the clause is to raise standards across the board.

My final point is on the detail. I am particularly pleased that proposed new section 179(2) of the Housing Act 1996 lists

“former members of the regular armed forces”,

which is right and proper. It also lists

“persons released from prison or youth detention accommodation”.

I am sure the Government’s ambition and intention is to reduce reoffending—if it is not, it should be. There are three key planks to that. One is housing, and the other two are education and employment. If housing or advisory support on housing were available, it would be a big step in the right direction. I strongly support the measures in clause 2.

[Mr Jones]

It is a pleasure to respond to clause 2 on the second day of our consideration. It is obvious from this first debate that my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East has chosen well because Members on both sides of the Committee are not only capable and knowledgeable but have spoken with immense passion and power. It is obvious that the members of this Committee care about the enactment of the Bill.

The Government welcome the duty to provide homelessness advisory services and hope it will go a long way in helping to provide access to the same high standard of information and support for everyone. It does not help to prevent homelessness if local authorities provide minimal and out-of-date information but, technically, they could still be acting within the law. The measure is a key first step to addressing that. Having said that, some local housing authorities provide relevant and up-to-date information and, in some cases, tailored advice, and they need to be commended.

The clause will help to ensure that all local housing authorities step up to the standard of the best by providing detailed advice and information to all households in their area while empowering people to seek support before their housing concerns turn into a housing crisis. We hope local housing authorities provide more personalised advice that meets the needs of households that are likely to be at risk of homelessness, and advice that targets the vulnerable groups identified in the clause.

Earlier, I mentioned some prevention trailblazers. The best local authorities include Newcastle, where staff work to gather information to identify people at risk of becoming homeless so they can target their advice and support far earlier so that people do not end up in a housing crisis. That is the spirit in which the clause sets out further obligations for local authorities, and what we expect to happen.

To ensure that the measures work in practice, we will work with local housing authorities, homelessness support organisations and others to review and update the guidance on how local housing authorities should comply with the new duty. In doing so, we will look to Wales, which has a similar duty enshrined in legislation in section 60 of the Housing (Wales) Act 2014, and to other good practice such as that which I mentioned in England.

As I mention Wales, may I respond, in order to assist my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East, to the point made by the hon. Member for Hammersmith about the extent of the legislation regarding England and Wales? I reassure him that we have discussed the Bill with Welsh Government lawyers and are satisfied that the approach taken in the Bill correctly addresses the devolution points he raised. I have some responses to assist my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East in a few other areas.

A number of hon. Members mentioned the issue of funding for the Bill. I reiterate that we are absolutely committed to funding the costs of the Bill. As the hon. Member for Sheffield South East, who chairs the Select Committee, mentioned, we are still working with local authorities and the LGA to identify the costs of the Bill. Given how the Bill has been brought to the House, the timescales have been tight, particularly for the Select Committee’s scrutiny process and the tabling of amendments.

We are now dealing with changes to clause 1 to deal with challenges raised by a particular stakeholder group, so we are still finalising the costs. We expect to be able to come to the Committee shortly with the final details of those costs. I can reassure people that when we come back with that final detail, we will be taking into account the costs as a result of clause 2.