Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luke Evans and Wes Streeting

Tuesday 19th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting]

I can reassure health and care providers that we will be setting out allocations long before April next year. I recognise that people need to plan ahead of the new financial year. When deciding allocations, we take into account the range of pressures on different parts of the system. People have heard what I have said already about the need to shift out of hospital into primary and community services. The shadow Minister talks about choices; Conservative Members seem to welcome the £26 billion investment, but oppose the means of raising it. I am afraid they cannot do both. If they support the investment, they need to support the way in which we raise the money; if they do not support the way in which we raise the money, they need to spell out how they would raise it or be honest about the fact that if they were still in government, they would continue to preside over a mismanaged decline.

[Dr Evans]

One GP described the situation as “Schrödinger’s primary care”: GPs are seen as private contractors, so not exempt from the NI increases, but they are exempt from the small business relief because they are deemed to be “public”. Did the Department of Health team knowingly go along with the Treasury team’s plan to tax primary care without mitigation, leading to cuts? Or did it not understand or spot the complexity of what is going on, so mitigations have to be put in place now? Which is it?

[Wes Streeting]

I was terribly impolite; I should have welcomed the shadow Minister to his place in response to his first question.

Conservative Members seem to welcome the £26 billion investment and are happy to tell us how it should be spent, but they oppose the means of raising it. They cannot do all those things. They need to be honest with the country: either they support the investment in the NHS or they say they would cut it. Which is it?

Income Tax (Charge)

Debate between Luke Evans and Wes Streeting

Tuesday 5th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting]

That is a commitment that we have made and a commitment that we will keep. I am happy to ensure that the hon. Member can meet the relevant Minister and project team as we get under way on delivering that project.

I did actually go back to check the pledges made by the Conservative party in its 2024 manifesto just to see how extensive the work of fiction was, only to find that the manifesto page on its website now reads “page not found”. The truth is, had the Conservatives won the election, it would have been deleted just as quickly.

That was not all I was told when I became Secretary of State in July. Despite 18 months of strikes in the NHS, there was no funding put aside to end the junior doctors’ dispute. What is more, the previous Health Secretary had not met the resident doctors since March—the Conservatives had given up even attempting to end the strikes. People should remember that this winter. For all the challenges that the NHS will face, this will be the first winter in three years when NHS staff will be on the frontline, not the picket line. That is the difference that a Labour Budget makes.

I was told that GPs would be qualifying this year with no jobs to go into. The Government found the funding and we are hiring an extra 1,000 GPs this year. That is the difference that a Labour Budget makes.

[Dr Luke Evans (Hinckley and Bosworth) (Con)]

On the Budget, GPs, hospices and care homes have been found to be either exempt or not exempt from the national insurance contributions. Will he clarify whether hospices, care homes and primary care are exempt or not? That really matters to their costs.

[Wes Streeting]

I am grateful for that intervention for two reasons. First, it gives me an opportunity to say to GPs, hospices and other parts of the health and care system that will be affected by employers’ national insurance contribution changes that I am well aware of the pressures, we have not made allocations for the year ahead, and I will take those representations seriously.

Secondly, it gives me a chance to ask the hon. Member and the Opposition: do they support the investment or not? Are they choosing to invest in the NHS or not? They are now confronted with the hard reality of opposition. Just as when we were in opposition we had to set out how much every single one of our policies would cost and how those would be funded, they have to do that now. If they oppose the investment, they have to tell us where they would make the cuts in the NHS. If they oppose the investment, they have to tell us where they would make the cuts in school budgets. Those are the choices that we have made, and we stand by those choices. The Opposition will have to set out their choices, too.

I was told that because the Conservatives had run up huge deficits in NHS finances, I would not be able to deliver the 40,000 extra appointments a week that we had promised. In fact, I was told that we would have to cut 20,000 appointments a week instead. The Chancellor and I were not prepared to see waiting lists rise further. She put the funding in, and an extra 40,000 patients will be treated by the NHS each week. That is the difference that a Labour Budget makes.

NHS Workforce Expansion

Debate between Luke Evans and Wes Streeting

Tuesday 28th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting]

I wholeheartedly agree. It is why we are in the worst of all situations: the shortage of staff means not only that patients are receiving poorer care, but that we are paying over the odds as taxpayers for the Conservatives’ failure to recruit and retain the staff we need.

We are not alone in thinking that the biggest expansion of NHS staff in history and doubling the number of medical school places is the right solution. Amanda Pritchard, the chief executive of NHS England, has rightly said that we need greater investment in training to stop excellent British students being turned away. The Royal College of Physicians has called for medical school places to be doubled, and now the NHS is formally asking the Government to fund it. Why are the Government refusing to fund a doubling of medical school places, which the NHS and the Royal College of Physicians say is necessary, and which patients can see through experience is desperately necessary?

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

rose—

[Wes Streeting]

Perhaps the hon. Member can tell us.

[Dr Evans]

I am grateful to the shadow Secretary of State for bringing me in on this point. Training is really important. As someone who has been a medical student, I know that one of the most important things to look at is how many people will be on one’s firms. We do not want 12, 15 or 20 people all coming into a cubicle to see a patient. Although I welcome the idea of expansion, can he talk me through what the ratio will be on ward rounds for medical students being trained?

[Wes Streeting]

I am glad that finally Government Members have noticed that Labour has got a plan and are asking how it will work; I wish that Government Ministers would join in. The proposal we set forward to double the number of medical school places is based on modelling put forward by the Royal College of Physicians, which understands perfectly well the points the hon. Member makes. I have had excellent meetings with university vice-chancellors, who are keen to roll up their sleeves and help. The reason we set out a plan this far from a general election was for two reasons. First, we want to give medical schools and NHS employers time to prepare for the expansion. Secondly, we hope that the Government adopt this plan to give the next Labour Government a head start. I very much hope, as this motion says, that the Chancellor will take our plan and incorporate it into his Budget, and I will cheer him if he does so.

I will tell the House how ludicrous the situation is today. There are medical schools in England today that are exclusively training international students, many of whom will leave upon graduating, while at the same time we are turning away thousands of straight-A students from our own country who want to help the NHS. Brunel University is training 100 new doctors, with not a single UK student. Chester University has deferred the launch of its medical degree by a year because the Treasury will not give it a penny. Local NHS trusts and charities have chipped in to fund 20 UK medical student places at Three Counties Medical School at Worcester University, because the Government are refusing to fund a single domestic student. Despite pleas from the NHS, the Minister for Skills, Apprenticeships and Higher Education, the right hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon), has threatened to fine medical schools if they increase their offers to applicants next term.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wes Streeting]

I wholeheartedly agree with the hon. Member. I will talk about this later in my speech, but it is why the Government have to resolve this pay dispute with existing NHS staff. The danger is not that they walk out for another day of strike action, but that they walk out of the NHS altogether for countries that treat them better. What an absurd position to be in. It is also absurd, by the way, that we still have doctors retiring early for no other reason than that the pensions rules create an active financial disincentive to work up to normal retirement age, as many of them would like to do. It is completely absurd.

[Dr Evans]

Will the shadow Secretary of State give way?

[Wes Streeting]

I am happy to give way to the hon. Member again, but may I gently suggest that he would be better off lobbying current rather than future Ministers?

[Dr Evans]

As the hon. Gentleman sees himself as a future Minister, what is his solution for the pensions position for consultants?

[Wes Streeting]

I am delighted that the hon. Member asks. I had a good meeting with the British Medical Association pensions committee recently. There are a number of ways in which this matter could be resolved, one of which might be a tax-unregistered scheme, which we have seen used successfully in the judiciary. [Interruption.] I am perfectly fine with having a tax-unregistered scheme. I think the difference between the Opposition and the Government is that the Government have an army of civil servants to do the modelling. That is what I would like the Government to do. I say to the hon. Member again that it is no use lobbying the next Government—lobby the current Government.

Turning again to the international picture, the NHS is having to recruit from countries on the World Health Organisation’s red list—countries that desperately need the few doctors and nurses they have—because our Government cannot be bothered to train their own. I think that is unethical, immoral, a disgrace and a kick in the teeth for the UK students who desperately want to be the doctors, nurses, midwives and allied health professionals that our country needs.

The Chancellor is refusing to budge, I believe, on cost grounds, but Labour’s plan before the House today would cost £1.6 billion a year. We have shown how we would pay for it: scrapping non-doms would raise more than £3 billion. If the Chancellor needs any tips about the non-doms system, or if perhaps he is worried that non-doms might flee the country, he need only knock on his next-door neighbour’s door to see a case in point. He will find out how the system works, and that when people are asked politely to pay their taxes here, they do not flee the country.

Inaction also has costs. The NHS spent an eye-watering £3 billion on agency staff last year. One hospital was so desperate that it paid £5,200 for a doctor to work a single shift. Does that not sum up the approach of this Government: penny wise and pound foolish?

--- Later in debate ---

[Wes Streeting]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and I have been following his work and that of the all-party parliamentary group on radiotherapy in this area, because he raises issues that ought to be taken very seriously. I was very grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame Morris) for coming to meet me about these challenges in particular. Of course, this has to be at the heart of a serious plan to improve cancer outcomes.

There is no doubt but that Labour’s workforce plan—supported by the NHS, supported by the professions, supported by so many members of the public—would make a difference. In fact, our inboxes have been filling with people welcoming the plan. It was a particular surprise to me to see one piece of fan mail that said:

“Despite my obvious political allegiances it would be remiss of me not mention the fact that Labour has pledged to double the number of medical school places and recruit additional health visitors and district nurses.”

It goes on to say that it

“is something I very much hope the government also adopts on the basis that smart governments always nick the best ideas of their opponents.”

Well, what luck that this particular fan of Labour’s policy joined the Government just two weeks after he sent the email. It is, of course, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who I must say I thought was an excellent Chair of the Health Committee. It is almost as if he had learned from all his mistakes when he was the Secretary of State for Health.

This is Lent, a period for atonement and a time for forgiveness, so I make this pledge today: if the Chancellor realises the errors of his ways and comes to this House to double the number of medical school places in the Budget and adopt Labour’s NHS expansion to deliver the biggest expansion of the NHS workforce in history, I will cheer him on from the Opposition Front Bench during the Budget. I will cheer him on—

[Dr Luke Evans]

Come across!

[Wes Streeting]

Well, I need the help of the hon. Gentleman and Conservative Members, because my pleas seem to be falling on deaf ears. That is why I have taken the trouble to circulate this email to every Conservative Member, so that they can collar the Chancellor in the voting Lobby this evening—no doubt when he is voting with us, because he agrees with us—and I look forward to their assistance in helping him to see the error of his ways. In all seriousness, it is time that the Chancellor put his money where his mouth is, abolished non-doms and used the proceeds to train the doctors and nurses that the NHS needs.

We know the consequences of the current NHS crisis. Earlier this month, I met Samina and Minnie Rahman, who lost their loving husband and father on Christmas eve after calling for an ambulance three times. The family were initially told a nurse or paramedic would call them back, as it was deemed Iqbal did not require an ambulance. Forty minutes later, when his condition worsened and his family were unable to lift him into their car to drive him to hospital, they phoned 999 again. This time an ambulance was sent, but was then diverted to a higher-priority call. When Iqbal stopped breathing an hour after the first call, his family called 999 a third time, and an ambulance eventually arrived 24 minutes later. The paramedics spent 90 minutes attempting to revive Iqbal in front of his family, but they were unable to. That story is tragic and awful for the family who lost a husband, a father, and a grandfather. Perhaps most depressing is that this case is no longer surprising. The hour and a half that Iqbal waited for an ambulance was the average amount of time that patients with conditions such as heart attacks and strokes waited in December.

The West Midlands Ambulance Service has apologised to Mr Rahman’s family, but they want the Government to take action. They are calling for change to ensure that no other family must endure what they have been through, and they have three asks. First, they want an independent review to establish the number of deaths and serious harms caused by ambulance delays. The Government have rejected figures from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine that claimed that up to 500 people a week were losing their lives this winter due to long waits for emergency care. They also rejected figures from the Office for National Statistics on the number of excess deaths suffered in the past year. Well, Mr Deputy Speaker, “ignorance is bliss” is not a responsible approach to the crisis in emergency care. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, so I hope the Minister will commit to establishing the true scale of the harm caused by the crisis in the NHS.

Secondly, Minnie and Samina ask the Government to instigate Cobra-style meetings to deal with the public health emergency of ambulance delays. That is already happening to deal with the fallout from industrial action, but we need the same level of action for non-strike days. Thirdly, Minnie and Samina have asked to meet the Health and Social Care Secretary, so that he can hear at first hand about their experience, and see the trauma it has caused. The Secretary of State is not able to be here this afternoon, but I hope the Minister will convey that request to him. I gently remind her that I passed on Zaheer Ahmed’s request to meet the Secretary of State after his five-year-old nephew passed away following multiple failings by the health service, but that meeting is yet to be arranged. I think the least we can do as public servants is listen to those we serve, especially those who have suffered in the most unimaginable way. I hope the Secretary of State will meet those families, and that they are able to spur the Government into taking the action we need.

One promise of the NHS is that it is there for us when we need it. That has been completely fundamental in this country for as long as many in the Chamber can remember, but that promise is now broken. People are frightened that the NHS will not be there for them in an emergency. It is not hard to understand why. Look at the news today that more than 1.5 million patients waited for more than 12 hours in A&E last year, which is estimated by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine to have seen 23,000 people lose their lives.

This is not just about emergency care. Patients in need of an operation or even a GP appointment do not know whether the NHS will be there for them when they need it. That is why so many people are voting with their feet, and with their wallets, and going private. Of course most people in this country cannot afford to pay, so they have no choice but to wait and worry. Restoring that promise of an NHS that is there for us when we need it should be a basic task for any Government, but this Government do not even have the ambition, let alone a plan to get there. Instead, the Health and Social Care Secretary said last month that a world where patients are seen within four hours at A&E is “too ambitious” and “not achievable”. But it was achieved until 2015. It was certainly achieved under the last Labour Government.

The target for ambulances reaching patients with strokes or heart attacks has almost doubled to half an hour. If someone wants to see a GP, there is an “expectation”, not a guarantee, that they will be able to do that in two weeks. Two weeks! I remember Tony Blair being attacked because people were forced to see a GP within two days—what people wouldn’t give to be in that position now. Millions wait longer than a month. The Government missed the goal so they moved the goalposts. They have accepted that the NHS will not be there for all of us when we need it. That is what managed decline looks like. That is what brings about the end of the NHS. It is not calls for a different model from the right hon. Member for Gainsborough and others; it is this: slow, irreversible decline. That is what the end of the NHS will look like, and that is why we desperately need a change in Government.

NHS: Long-term Strategy

Debate between Luke Evans and Wes Streeting

Wednesday 11th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting]

I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s intervention, because it brings me directly to the Government’s amendment to the motion, which is not a plan but a litany of excuses for the situation across the United Kingdom, including in Wales. I will run through them. By way of excuse, they say that the situation is challenging across the United Kingdom, and they are right: in Wales, the NHS is struggling; in Scotland, the NHS is struggling; and in Northern Ireland, the NHS is struggling. What do all parts of the United Kingdom have in common? Thirteen years of Conservative underfunding.

I will tell the right hon. Gentleman that, as he knows perfectly well as a Welsh Member, the reason why the Welsh NHS struggles more than England overall is the age profile of the population, the number of disabled people in Wales and the level of deprivation. The same disparities between Wales and England overall also explain the enormous health inequalities within England, which is why health outcomes in my city—in London—are so much better than in so many parts of the north or south-west of England. And you know the way to deal with that? It is genuine levelling up. But if people want a Government who tackle health inequalities so that every person in every part of the United Kingdom gets good-quality healthcare, they need to elect a Labour Government here in Westminster. That is the truth that the right hon. Gentleman does not want to admit.

I know that SNP Members will not be here today, because we are talking about England, but here is another truth that Nicola Sturgeon does not want to admit either: people in Scotland will be better off under a Labour Government too. She knows that just as well as anyone else.

When Conservative Members are not talking about other parts of the United Kingdom, they say that health pressures exist right across the world, but international pressures do not explain why the average wait for an ambulance is 14 minutes in France, while heart attack victims and stroke victims routinely wait an hour for an ambulance here in England. International pressures do not explain why it is that, over the past year, one in six UK adults had a pressing need for medical examination or treatment but could not get access. They do not explain why this is the highest figure out of 36 European countries and almost triple the EU average. Their excuses about international pressures do not explain why cancer outcomes in England are behind other comparable countries. None of that explains why the state of the NHS is as bad as it is today, but perhaps the hon. Member for Bosworth (Dr Evans), who was trying to intervene, wants to stand up and justify why it is that, after 13 years of Conservative Government, his constituents are waiting an average of an hour for a heart attack or stroke case.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for giving way, and there are two points that I would like to pick up, seeing as he has come back to me on the second one. The first one, about comparable data, is really important. Does Labour have a position on sharing data between Wales, for example, and England, because the data is not comparable, which makes it very difficult to work out what is going on? Secondly, a plan was brought forward by the Government. It is called the NHS White Paper, which was brought forward by the NHS to transform the NHS with the integrated care boards, which are now in place. The people on those boards—42 of them—are the best people to make that change.

[Wes Streeting]

I find it astonishing. The hon. Gentleman’s position seems to be this: the Government have a plan, after 13 years, and apparently that plan is in progress. So why is it that so many Conservative Members just this week have stood up to talk about the fact that their constituents cannot see a GP, they cannot get an ambulance when they dial 999, and they are waiting hours on end in A&E departments? I know they like three-word slogans, but is the latest Conservative slogan on the NHS really “Crisis, what crisis?”?

--- Later in debate ---

[Wes Streeting]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We are spending £3 billion on agency costs that would surely be better spent on ensuring that we have a serious workforce plan, and on hospital departments that are staffed by regulars who get to know their shift, get to know their colleagues, and get to know their patients and communities.

Let me turn to what the Secretary of State for Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy said about ambulance staff, because I think he irresponsibly suggested that ambulance staff have not committed to minimum service levels for category 2 calls today, which is just not true. I think he ought to apologise to ambulance workers.

[Dr Luke Evans]

rose—

NHS Workforce

Debate between Luke Evans and Wes Streeting

Tuesday 6th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting]

I strongly agree with my hon. Friend. As the Leader of the Opposition has said, the NHS is not on its knees; it is on the floor. How many times were we told during the pandemic that restrictions were needed to stop the NHS falling over? It has now fallen over, and for the first time in its history people no longer feel certain that, when they phone 999 or arrive at A&E, they will be seen in time. It is the first time in our country’s history that people have not felt confident that emergency medicine will be there for them when they need it.

The Conservatives blame the crisis in the NHS on everything from the weather to the pandemic, and even NHS staff. Of course there is no doubt that the pandemic has made things worse, but the Government—the Conservative party—sent the NHS into the pandemic with 100,000 staff shortages. They spent a decade disarming the NHS, before sending it into the biggest fight it has ever faced. They cannot pretend that the NHS was well prepared. The problem for the Conservative party is that people are not stupid. Their memories are not that short. They know that the NHS was struggling to treat them on time before the pandemic, and they know who is to blame.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

Is not the point that health is devolved across four different nations, which are each led by a different party? Does this mean that the pandemic has hit all health services, including across the western world? This is a rising tide of the problem of the pandemic and dealing with an ageing population. This is not party political at all, and it is remiss of the hon. Gentleman to try to make it that. What does he say to that?

[Wes Streeting]

I would say two things. As I have already said, I accept that the pandemic made the challenge right across the United Kingdom worse. I also accept that, in every part of the United Kingdom, the NHS is under severe pressure. I would say two things in response. First, even if some of our friends on the SNP Benches do not want to acknowledge it, there is no doubt that every part of the United Kingdom would be better off with a Labour Government and every part of the NHS in every part of the United Kingdom would be better off if there were a Labour Government, because the investment that we are proposing in NHS staff today would benefit countries right across the United Kingdom. [Interruption.] In response to the outgoing hon. Member for Peterborough (Paul Bristow), do not say that politics does not make a difference. Do not expect the people to believe that somehow there was an inevitable sense of decline in the NHS. I am sure people remember that, when Labour was last in government, we delivered the shortest waiting times and the highest patient satisfaction in history.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wes Streeting]

I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. As we see so often with this Government, they make promises but break them. They try to fool the public into thinking they are delivering more GPs—or indeed more police officers—when it was the Conservative party that cut them. They try to give with one hand, but they take with the other, and after 12 years people have had enough.

Of course, it is not only the promise to recruit more GPs that the Conservatives are breaking. We had the promise of 40 new hospitals, which the Secretary of State repeated today, yet in response to the question posed by the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson), the Secretary of State said that of those 40 new hospital schemes

“five hospital schemes are in construction, two are now completed and we aim to announce the next eight by the end of this year.”

So, where are the other 25? Where are these 40 new hospitals? As far as I can tell, they exist only in the imagination of the former Prime Minister. Yet the script has not changed—Ministers are still here claiming 40 new hospitals.

When I visited Leeds with the shadow Chancellor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), I saw a vast pile of dirt where a new building was due to go up. We heard today that the Government cannot even negotiate an agreement with the hospital to get the site working and get the new facilities built. With every minute, every month and every year of delay construction costs are going up, so taxpayers are left in the worst of all worlds: broken promises, no 40 new hospitals, and paying through the nose for the ones that are being built because of Government incompetence.

We see the tragic consequences of the shortages and broken promises in the NHS. My hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) raised the tragic case today at Health questions of a five-year-old boy who had what his doctor described as the worst case of tonsilitis he had ever seen. He was turned away from hospital, with his parents told there were no beds and not enough doctors. His infection worsened and five-year-old Yusuf later passed away. His death certificate recorded the primary cause of his death as pneumonia and the secondary cause as tonsilitis. What kind of country are we living in when a five-year-old boy can die of tonsilitis? This is criminal.

I met Yusuf’s uncle, Zaheer Ahmed, last week, and I did not know what to say to that poor man and his grieving family, who lost that little boy in the most unimaginable circumstances. I invite the Secretary of State to meet Yusuf’s family to hear how that little boy was failed and to hear at first hand about some of their interactions with the NHS, which I thought were completely unacceptable and intolerable. On that note, I welcome the independent inquiry that has been committed to. That is really important for the family who have been failed in this heartbreaking case. We do not want to see more cases like that.

At the heart of the crisis in the NHS—as with so many of the problems facing our country—is a failure to plan. The NHS has not had a workforce plan since 2003. That would be unacceptable in a multinational company one one-hundredth the size of the NHS. The failure to plan means that short-term fixes are always favoured over what is in patients’ long-term interests. That is why the Government cut the nursing bursary and why, this summer, in the middle of the biggest crisis in the history of the NHS, they took the infuriating decision to cut a third of medical school places.

[Dr Luke Evans]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Wes Streeting]

The hon. Gentleman has been to medical school; does he think that it was a good idea to cut the number of places this summer?

[Dr Evans]

When we talk about Labour’s record on training, the hon. Gentleman may forget that, in 2007, the medical training application service ended up in judicial review. Many of my colleagues moved out of disciplines that they loved dearly because of Labour’s mess in making those plans. He has been speaking for almost half an hour, setting out his exposé of what is going on in the health service, but I am yet to hear a plan. I hope that he will spend the next half an hour telling us about the detailed plan of how we get to 10,000 new medical places, because when it comes to firms in hospitals, there is not enough space for medical students to get that experience, so I am looking for him to solve that problem.