Energy Prices

Luciana Berger Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Huhne]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question. Our overall energy policy is designed to be robust in the face of considerable uncertainties in relation to technologies and what is likely to happen to the price of particular fuels. If it transpires that the early indications we have received from Cuadrilla about the size of the find under Lancashire are correct, there will clearly be an impact on gas prices within the UK. We have already seen that gas prices in the United States are half of those in the UK and the rest of Europe and are even lower than the prices for gas in the far east. This is a very important development and all our policy framework is designed to make sure that we can provide affordable, clean electricity at the cheapest possible price to British consumers in the long run. If that means cheap gas, then obviously the technological imperative is to go forward with carbon capture and storage so that we can use that gas in an environmentally friendly manner. That is precisely why that is so important.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Chris Huhne]

I must make a bit of progress with my speech; otherwise I fear we will be here all night.

Over the next 10 years, we need £110 billion of investment in power plants and another £90 billion of investment in energy infrastructure to avoid the risk of black-outs. If we do not invest now to reduce our energy use and our dependence on fossil fuels in the long term, we will have to rely on ever more expensive imports. That will leave us at the mercy of global oil and gas prices and at the mercy of events in very volatile parts of the world. We have only to look at what has been happening in Libya and the rest of the middle east to see that. The impact on energy security and household bills will be worse. This is a very important way of insuring our country against the sort of economic shocks that we can otherwise expect.

That four-pronged strategy of energy saving, renewables, new nuclear and carbon capture and storage is absolutely essential.

[Luciana Berger]

rose—

[Chris Huhne]

Is the hon. Lady about to ask about carbon capture and storage perhaps?

[Luciana Berger]

I thank the Secretary of State for giving way. He said that energy saving was one of those prongs, and on energy saving he said only a moment ago that the Government are introducing the energy company obligation, which will replace Labour’s carbon emissions reduction target and community energy saving programme. That ECO pot is not going to go just to homes in fuel poverty but will be split, with some money going to subsidise able-to-pay households. Will he tell us how much there will be in that ECO pot?

[Chris Huhne]

We will be bringing forward the consultation document on the green deal and the ECO subsidy shortly, and all those issues will be addressed. Clearly, we have to make sure that we are getting value for money on both the carbon reduction side and in reducing fuel poverty because they are both very important.

I want to make some remarks on carbon capture and storage, which was raised in Prime Minister’s questions. Despite the fact that all the parties have worked extremely hard on the first carbon capture and storage demonstration project at Longannet, we have not been able to reach a satisfactory deal, as the Prime Minister pointed out. We will not, therefore, be proceeding with the project. That decision is purely about the viability of that particular project and is not a reflection on our commitment to the CCS programme; indeed, hon. Members will have heard me commit us to that very clearly a moment ago.

The long-term need for CCS remains as strong as ever. We will continue working across Government to start a more streamlined selection process as soon as possible and £1 billion will be available, as it was allocated in the comprehensive spending review, for that new process. Over the coming weeks, we will ensure that the lessons from that first process are fully learned and we now know that commercial-scale CCS projects are technically viable and are likely to be financially achievable. We also know more about the best way to procure these first-of-a-kind projects. Our findings will be published and made freely available on the Department of Energy and Climate Change website to help to speed up deployment of CCS both here and abroad. We will study those lessons closely as we develop the forthcoming CCS road map setting out our vision for CCS deployment.

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[Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)]

I am grateful for this opportunity to make what I intend will be a brief contribution to this important debate. It is timely because, as so many hon. Members have said, this is a matter of the first importance to so many of our constituents and many of the most vulnerable households. Again as has been said, many are making a choice between heating and eating. However, as the Financial Times pointed out last week, on trends that we have seen, it would not be too long before the average household is at risk of falling into fuel poverty. I know that Members on both sides of the House want to get to grips with this problem, so it does not have to be a party political issue. I am afraid, though, that in her opening remarks, the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) made it so.

There is much merit in the Opposition day motion, and the Government Front Bench team have said that they will not be opposing it. I do not suppose that it would be in order for me to suggest amendments at this stage, but long as the motion is, I think that it would benefit from the insertion of seven words. The first line reads:

“this House believes that the energy market does not serve the public interest”.

I would suggest inserting after “energy market” the words: “that we, the Labour party, presided over”. The Government took office after a Government who allowed extensive fuel poverty to persist, who failed to get to grips with the complexity in the market, who had no green deal and who were well off the pace on nuclear power, and all that time of course the now Leader of the Opposition had more than a passing association with energy policy. By contrast, the coalition Government have come in with bold plans to address all those issues.

There are important community-based initiatives, such as oil clubs, which have been mentioned once or twice, and organisations such as Greening Petersfield and Greening Alton and Holybourne, in my constituency, which are working with some of the most vulnerable people to take sensible, simple measures to better insulate their homes and to save money. Although there are many aspects to this debate, I want to talk briefly about just two: first, the implication of the green deal for the prices that, in particular, the most vulnerable people are paying and the need to ensure that they share in the benefits of the green deal; and, secondly, the need to tackle market complexity.

I welcome the green deal hugely. It is an innovative approach to this practical issue and could contribute to employment and growth—it is investment in the truest sense of the word. However, we need a few reassurances, particularly on how small businesses will share in the work and on how the quality of workmanship will be guaranteed. Specific to energy prices, however, I hope that the Minister will say something about how the green deal will work for people on pre-payment meters and about how the interest rate regime will ensure that those households and consumers considered the “highest risks” will not be effectively priced-out of the benefits arising from the green deal.

[Luciana Berger]

We fully support the green deal, which we piloted when Labour was in government in the pay-as-you-save scheme. I share the hon. Gentleman’s concerns about pre-payment meters and interest rates, which were two points that we laboured in the Committee stage of the Energy Bill, sadly without getting answers. I know that I should be making a short intervention, but I would like to return to his point about the community element. We sought in Committee to secure lower administration charges for those smaller businesses, community projects, social enterprises, charities and co-operatives that want to take part in the green deal, but the Government rejected our amendments. Will the hon. Gentleman ask them to reconsider that?

[Damian Hinds]

The fact that the hon. Lady made those points does not make them bad points, and there will be further detail to come. Things do not necessarily have to be on the face of the legislation. As the green deal is introduced, I am sure that ensuring that the most vulnerable households share the benefits will be high on Ministers’ list of priorities.

The second point that I want to cover briefly is about complexity in the market. We know that there are hundreds of tariffs on the market—one of which, slightly inexplicably, involves getting a free football shirt. In some ways, complexity in the energy market is a reflection of increasing complexity in consumer markets in general. Those visiting the Sainsbury’s wine aisle now need to take a Hewlett Packard scientific calculator to work out the best deal, whereas those looking for a savings account or a credit card deal need to spend quite a long time working out the best deal in the first place and, more importantly, need to be sharp and ensure that they cancel it at the right time to get the savings. Things are becoming harder for consumers, but they are especially difficult with energy because it is that much less tangible and has that much more complexity to it.

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[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

I will speak as briefly as I can about three issues: unconventional gas, fuel poverty, and what we should be doing about the big six—or, perhaps more pertinently, what we should not be doing.

First, I do that think that unconventional gas is a panacea, but the Government need to take it a little more seriously than they have up to now. There has been a lot of discussion about wholesale gas prices rising and getting bigger and bigger, but that is not wholly true. It is true in Europe but it is not true across the world. In the US, the Henry Hub market for wholesale gas is now 50% of the level that it is in Europe. If we were purchasing gas at that price here, we could cut all fuel bills by one third immediately. That has been achieved by a remarkable technical innovation to do with fracturing and horizontal drilling, which is probably the most significant change in the energy industry in the past two decades. It has not happened here yet and there is some way to go before we can say that it will happen here, but both the industry lobby and, frankly, the green lobby are very suspicious of unconventional gas. In my view, that is why the Government need to take it seriously. The US has been able to generate more energy from gas than from coal, and that has a massive impact on its carbon emissions. The quickest way for anybody to reduce carbon emissions is to replace coal with gas as soon as possible. I would like to see that point taken more seriously, and it is not true that gas prices are increasing everywhere worldwide—they are not.

Secondly, we have heard a lot about fuel poverty and there have been some very powerful speeches, particularly from Opposition Members, on this issue. I have heard the figure that 2,700 deaths are the result of fuel poverty each year. That is a terrible statistic and is one that we all need to take seriously.

We missed the opportunity a decade or perhaps two decades ago to embark on a programme of cheap nuclear power in the way that France did, and frankly we are paying the price for that now. However, I believe that both sides of the House voted for the Climate Change Act 2008. It may well be that we need that Act and that it is the only way forward, but we need to be clear about the implications, because whichever way one looks at its requirements, it puts up the cost of energy. That might be right, but putting up the cost of energy in that way increases fuel poverty at the margin, all other things being equal. We talk about CCS, wind power and solar power, all of which cost more than gas and other methods, and it is very important that we fully understand that they do not come cheaply. We need to be very careful, as we legislate more for targets of 80% reductions by a certain date, that we understand what we are doing.

Finally, I want to talk about the big six. As has rightly been said—I heard it said recently—most of those companies are now foreign owned. The other thing about the big six is that we require them to spend £200 billion in our country in the next 15 years. They can choose whether they do that or not, but if they do not, we will face a bigger problem here than fuel poverty: the lights will go out. Coal stations will be coming off stream in the next three or four years and nuclear is coming to the end of its life. We face a very serious issue here in a way that no other country in Europe does and, as far as I can see, the only way we can deal with that is through massive investment—some of which, perhaps unfortunately, is going to have to come from those people, who are, as has rightly been said, a cartel in some ways. I have heard language today about them; indeed, I think I heard an Opposition Member accuse them of criminal behaviour and of being a cartel that had rigged the market and that should be fined 10% of turnover, which would cost them £10 billion. It is a terrible thing to accuse directors of criminal behaviour. We have no evidence of that and it is not true. We have an oligopoly and we have to manage it.

[Luciana Berger]

Four of the big six energy companies have admitted that they had been involved in doorstep selling practices that they have now had to stop because they were wrong. They were mis-selling packages on the doorstep which meant that people were paying more for their energy.

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[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am pleased to have the chance to close this afternoon’s Opposition day debate.

This year, millions of households across our country will face a cold, hard winter. In 12 months energy bills have risen by a fifth, whereas energy companies’ profits have increased by 700% in the past few months alone. Across the country, people are struggling to keep their homes warm and the lights on, as their spending power has been squeezed. As we have heard today from many Members on both sides of the House, people are having to choose whether to heat or eat.

After hours of debate today, it is clear that the Government are not taking the action we need to make bills simpler and prices fairer. The debate has shown that there is a real choice between a Government who would rather stand alongside the big energy companies than stand up for the hard-working majority, who cut support for our constituents when they need help most, who walk away when families are struggling with higher food prices and gas bills and worrying about their jobs and their children’s futures; and a Labour Opposition who are prepared to make the tough choices, stand up to the powerful vested interests of the closed energy industry, provide real help to people this winter, and take action to reform how our energy market works for the long term.

We heard in the contributions of my hon. Friends the Members for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner), for North West Durham (Pat Glass), for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) and for Islwyn (Chris Evans) how families and small businesses in their constituencies are finding it very difficult to make ends meet. My hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) highlighted in his intervention the challenge of energy-intensive industries.

Businesses and households have been hit hard by the highest level of inflation ever, crippled by the Government’s rise in VAT and squeezed by energy bill increases. It cannot be right that almost a quarter of all British households now spend 10% or more of their disposable income just to keep warm. Many Members, including the hon. Members for Hexham (Guy Opperman) and for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey), also identified the additional cost challenges faced by customers who live off the grid.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) and my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North West (John Robertson) highlighted the real problem of the withdrawal of Government support. The Government are replacing the social tariffs, which provided support for vulnerable consumers, with the warm home discount, from which just one in 20 pensioners will benefit. They are leaving a gaping hole by reducing the Warm Front scheme to a third of its size but putting nothing in its place to support vulnerable people this winter, and they are reducing the winter fuel allowance by up to £100, despite promising before the election not to do so.

My hon. Friends the Members for Kingston upon Hull East and for Glasgow North West made the point that according to the interim Hills fuel poverty review, which was released earlier today, there will be 2,700 winter deaths this year as a result of fuel price increases, which is a staggering four people for each of our constituencies. This is a life-or-death issue that transcends political divides.

The hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) talked about the wave hub and the need to encourage renewable generation, and he is hoping for a positive outcome from the ROC review. We are, too. We share the view that if we reform the market and invest now in low-carbon energy generation, we can secure our future energy supply while creating thousands of new jobs. We know that 80% of people currently pay too much for their energy, but who does the Secretary of State blame for that? The energy companies? The bewildering array of more than 400 complex tariffs? No, he blames us, the consumers, for not switching supplier.

[Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab)]

Is my hon. Friend aware that even when people switch, many of them find they are paying more for their tariff than they did before?

[Luciana Berger]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention and I shall cover that point in just a few moments.

There has been an issue with doorstep selling, which four out of the six energy companies have had to stop because it has been proven that people were mis-sold packages and were paying more than double what they were before. We know from last week’s Which? report that a third of people are not offered the best advice from their energy suppliers when they call them for advice about which tariff to switch to.

On Monday, we heard and saw all the news about the energy summit and thought that that was a great opportunity. The Government could have done something tangible to help, but all we got was more of the same. We were told to shop around, ring this number and look at that website. I looked at the DECC website to see what the exact outcome of the summit was, and it tells us:

“This winter suppliers will place a cheaper tariff signpost message on the front page of bills, encouraging customers to call their supplier or visit a website to find out if they could be saving money on their energy bills.”

We already know that many people do not have access to the internet or to websites and cannot benefit from cheaper tariffs because they do not have access to a bank account or because they are unable to secure direct debits, an issue that specifically affects pensioners. We already know that that approach does not work, but the energy summit had no outcome on simpler tariffs, improving trust, reforming the market or increasing competition. It showed an out-of-touch Government wedded to an out-of-date orthodoxy at the expense of everyone else.

In her opening speech, my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) set out a very clear plan to limit energy cost increases and to support struggling households.

[Chris Huhne]

The hon. Lady mentions the clear plan from the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint), but will she clarify for the benefit of the House whether it is now Labour policy to break up the big six, as the leader of the Labour party suggested, or to have a Competition Commission referral? May we have some clarification?

[Luciana Berger]

The Leader of the Opposition has said that we are seeking to break the dominance of the big six. He has not explicitly said that he wants to break them up—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We must have interventions from the Dispatch Box. It is no good the Secretary of State chuntering from a sedentary position in the faint expectation of being heard.

[Luciana Berger]

The point of the debate is that we are trying to get action from the Government now, this winter. We have not seen anything from the Government that will help my constituents and those of all hon. Members. Anyway, as I shall say later, we are very grateful for the Government’s support for our motion.

First, we believe that we need an immediate investigation into mis-selling by energy companies and compensation for consumers who have been ripped off. For too many years, cold-call doorstep sales have led to hundreds of thousands of people paying more for their energy after switching to a worse deal. As I said only a moment ago, the news that four of the big six have ended that abusive practice is welcome, but questions remain about selling methods. We want an immediate investigation with proper sanctions to restore trust. The Secretary of State said before that there will be compensation for anyone ripped off in the future, but we are concerned about the thousands of people who have already been affected.

Secondly, the energy companies should use their ballooning profits to help families and businesses struggling to make ends meet by cutting their bills now. Last week, Ofgem published research showing that the average dual fuel bill is now a mammoth £1,345 per household, but at the same time energy companies have seen their profits soar, with their margin now standing at a whopping £125 per customer, up £110 in just four months. It is wrong that energy companies are raising their profits by 700% when consumers are being told that bill increases are unavoidable.

Thirdly, the Opposition believe that we need transparency, meaning that companies need to be clear and open about how much it costs them to buy their energy. Only then can customers be clear that they are getting a fair deal.

Fourthly, we want simple tariffs. We need tariffs that are fair to consumers, but that are also easy to understand and compare. Something is wrong when 70% of consumers say that they find the number of tariffs on offer confusing. A daily standing charge covering the cost of delivering energy to people’s houses and a unit price so that people can see clearly how much they are paying would mean an end to confusing charges, making it easier for them to compare suppliers’ prices properly.

Finally and most importantly, we need reform of our energy market, which for too long has been dominated by a handful of companies. At one time that seemed to be working, but no longer. It is clear that those vested interests are looking after themselves handsomely, while their customers struggle. As Ofgem has shown, and as many Members said this afternoon, as soon as the wholesale price goes up, so do people’s bills; but when wholesale prices come down, bills do not follow.

The market is broken and we need to fix it. We want all generators to sell all their power on a long-term market to any supplier. By reforming the market in that way and by opening it up, new entrants can join, increasing competition and lowering bills.

We also need action on securing our future energy supply, which means taking tough decisions now. Investing in low-carbon energy generation will create thousands of new jobs and drive our economy. However, under this Government, sadly, we are going backwards.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey]

I hear a lot of talk about the energy companies and recognise that we want to be critical friends. Does the hon. Lady think that they are producers or predators?

[Luciana Berger]

The point is that we want responsible business, which is what this debate is all about.

The challenge currently is that the Government are creating uncertainty for investors by playing political games with climate change. The Opposition do not believe that that will grow our economy. Talking down the green economy might sound good to a Conservative party conference, but what does it say to the companies that want to put their money behind carbon capture and storage or those that want to invest in renewables? What does it say to the small business owner who is thinking of providing energy-efficient goods or the manufacturer that is planning to build parts for a new generation of wind farms or solar panels? To them, talking down the green economy says: “Think again.”

We have a choice: we can be a leader or a follower. The jobs, investment and prosperity can come here, or they can go elsewhere. We want Britain to be a world leader, but for that to happen, we need a Government who get it. We have seen today that this Government do not get it.

For households in the squeezed middle, for vulnerable people and for millions of small businesses who need lower bills, now is the time to take action. Now is the time to make pricing transparent, to simplify tariffs, to tackle mis-selling, to demand that the energy companies use their profits to help to reduce energy bills this winter, and to reform the energy market. I urge hon. Members to take that action today, and I am delighted that the House supports Labour’s motion.