Road Traffic Law Enforcement

Debate between Louise Ellman and Jim Fitzpatrick

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Second Report of the Transport Committee of Session 2015-16, Road traffic law enforcement, HC 518, and the Government response, HC 132.

Deaths on our roads have decreased over the past decade following sustained efforts to improve road safety. Nevertheless, in 2015, 1,730 people were killed on our roads and 22,144 seriously injured, many of them suffering life-changing consequences. That is the background against which the Select Committee on Transport carried out our inquiry into road traffic law enforcement. Our report was published in March 2016, and the Department responded in June.

There are three strands to road safety—education, engineering and enforcement—and they cut across Departments. Our report concentrates on enforcement, but inevitably touches on the other aspects. The National Police Chiefs Council told us that its task was to act in relation to the fatal four offences: inappropriate speed, drink and drug-driving, non-wearing of seat belts and driving while distracted, which mainly refers to the use of mobile phones but also involves other aspects.

Enforcement requires detection, which is implemented by a combination of specialist officers to apprehend offenders and the application of technology. Deterrence, which includes motorists’ perceptions of the likelihood of being caught, is an extremely important aspect of traffic law enforcement. Over the years, there has been greater reliance on technology than on specialist officers. We expressed great concern about the major reduction in specialised road policing officers, the number of whom fell from a full-time equivalent of 7,104 in 2005 to 4,356 by 2014. Between 2010 and 2014, there was a 23% decrease in their number. There are regional variations on those figures, reflecting the different decisions of the 43 separate police areas overseen by police and crime commissioners. They take their own individual decisions about what they think is operationally appropriate, but all of them do so in the context of deciding different priorities against a background of a reduction in spending. There is no Home Office guidance on the issue, so those decisions are taken in individual areas.

It is interesting to note that although overall detected traffic offences halved over that period, the number of offences related to causing death on the roads, which are always reported, did not fall. That leads to the question whether the reduction in reported offences means that driving standards have improved or that detection rates have fallen. It is an important question to ask. We ask that the Department assess the impact of that drastic reduction in specialist road police officers. It is an important matter that is often not recognised.

Speed can kill. Driving too fast for conditions was a contributory factor in 7,361 accidents in 2015, 167 of which were fatal and 1,380 of which caused serious injury. That represents 11% of all fatal accidents and 8% of serious accidents. Exceeding the speed limit was a contributory factor in 5,272 accidents, 222 of which were fatal, and 1,152 causing serious injury. That constitutes 15% of fatal accidents and 7% of serious accidents. Behind every one of those figures and each of those statistics lies a death or a life changed, perhaps forever.

Some 90% of fixed penalty notices imposed for breaking the speed limit were camera-detected. Speed cameras are frequently controversial. We listened to the experiences about speed cameras that have been put in different places, considered the various responses and concluded that it is important that cameras are placed where they can improve safety and that their financing is transparent, with excess revenues being invested in improving local road safety rather than financially benefiting the Exchequer or local councils. The financing for fixed speed cameras has changed in recent years. Recent changes have caused some local authorities and partnerships to remove such cameras, but they can be extremely important in improving safety, so there must be a proper assessment of where they are placed and how effective they are. We said that we felt the Road Safety Trust should review how the cameras are working and what is the most effective way to deploy them.

Motorists seem to regard penalties imposed for average speeds as fairer than those levied for speed at the moment when the camera flashes. We noted the growth of diversionary courses as an alternative to speeding penalties, with drivers paying for the courses. We asked a number of questions about those courses. We need to know much more about how effective they are. There should be more transparency about how they are financed, and more consistency in their availability across the country. Drivers pay to go on the courses, and they might pay different amounts in different areas; different courses are available in different policing and local authority areas, and it is not entirely clear how effective they are. We felt that a proper assessment should be made.

Although the Department told us that it was issuing guidance, and Highways England is also looking at the issue, it is not entirely clear what works best to make our roads safer. We felt that specialist officers should be deployed in areas where high speed causes fatalities, and that that should be combined with an educational campaign. In many areas, an educational campaign must go together with enforcement.

Recently, there has been a great deal of publicity about the horrendous deaths caused by drivers using handheld mobile phones, which falls under the category of distraction in vehicle. A driver using a handheld mobile phone was recorded as a contributory factor in 440 accidents in 2015, 22 of which were fatal and 75 of which involved serious injury. The wider category of distraction in vehicle was a contributory factor in 2,920 accidents, 61 of which were fatal and 384 of which caused serious injuries.

It is of great concern that fixed penalty notices for using a handheld mobile phone while driving have decreased by 90% from 167,000 in 2006 to fewer than 17,000 in 2015. The Government now state that they are planning tougher penalties, which is welcome, but those penalties will be effective only if drivers believe that they will get caught for using their handheld phone.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

I saw the statistics that my hon. Friend has just cited about the 90% reduction. Could the Committee identify what caused that reduction? When I read that, I could not believe it was an accurate figure.

Coastguard (Maritime Incident Response Group)

Debate between Louise Ellman and Jim Fitzpatrick

Thursday 17th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Ellman]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. He highlights a crucial issue causing major concerns that have not yet been resolved.

To return to coastguards and co-ordination centres, under the revised proposals, the number of professional coastguards will fall to 436. The new maritime operations centre was due to be operational by April 2014. That has now been delayed until September 2014. Co-ordination centres at Solent, Portland, Brixham, Liverpool, Swansea and Thames are due to close after that.

We published a second report on the revised proposals in December 2012, and we continue to receive deeply disturbing information from coastguards about staffing and morale in the service. It is to those issues that I now turn. The Committee accepted that there is a case for a national maritime operations centre to manage particularly large or difficult incidents, which could overwhelm an individual co-ordination centre or two centres working together. However, we remain unclear about what coastguards at the national centre would do at times when such an emergency was not taking place. Coastguards giving evidence to us said that they had no idea how the new maritime operations centre and the co-ordination centres would work together.

In their reply to our report, the Government spelled out in more detail what they saw as the main responsibilities of the maritime operations centre, particularly in co-ordinating the work of coastguards across the country. The recent agreement on the roles and responsibilities of coastguards under the new system might also bring greater clarity in this area. Will the Minister explain how the new system will work—not just during a major incident, but at quieter times?

We heard strong criticism of the decision to close three maritime resource co-ordination centres before the new system is in place. For example, Shetland coastguards explained that they had to use their own time to gain local knowledge of parts of the northern Scotland coastline for which they would be responsible after the closure of the Forth station. There have been continuing concerns that some co-ordination centres are now severely overstretched.

We were told in March this year that, already, staffing at Belfast co-ordination centre had been below the risk-assessed staffing level on 124 occasions out of 158 shifts. At the same time, Yarmouth co-ordination centre, which has since closed, was moved to daylight-only operations because of staff shortages. It is testament to the professionalism of the service that the closures have been accommodated without major incident.

It was widely believed that ministerial statements and Maritime and Coastguard Agency documents had given a commitment that the maritime rescue co-ordination centres would not be closed until the new system was put in place. This was denied, but the language used by the Minister’s predecessor in the House and some of the documents published by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency back in 2011 were at best ambiguous.

One key area of the dispute is the importance of local knowledge. Coastguards emphasise its importance in their work, and they are tested on their local situational knowledge. Knowing that a particular rock or headland has three names in two languages can help to ensure that assistance reaches people in distress as quickly as possible. The Maritime and Coastguard Agency discounted its significance, considering that local knowledge could be stored electronically, so that it could be used by any coastguard based anywhere. Indeed, when we heard evidence from the chief executive of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, he seemed to disregard the importance of critical local knowledge, which is about geography, tides and currents, language and dialect, and the availability of additional volunteer sources for rescue in the area concerned.

Coastguards remain concerned about the issue. They challenge whether the knowledge built up over many years by experienced coastguards working in their areas can be replaced by databases. Coastguards taking on new areas of responsibility will still be assessed on their understanding of local factors, although it is hard to see how this will apply to the coastguards in the new marine operations centre. Perhaps the Minister will explain what importance he attaches to coastguards having local knowledge and how it will work under the new system and be tested.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

I am sorry to interrupt my hon. Friend—I sense that she might be concluding. Her Committee has obviously done another thorough job in monitoring the good work of the shipping Minister and his officials under her excellent leadership, but can she give us a sense of what progress she thinks has been made compared with where we were last year and the year before? Is her Committee more worried about the situation? Is there the same level of anxiety, or is she more reassured because of what she has heard in the various examinations that her Committee has undertaken?

[Mrs Ellman]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments and for the excellent work that he did in a previous capacity. It is good to hear from him. I remain concerned about the situation. There is now more clarity about what exactly is going to happen, but major questions remain. That is why I am pursuing them today. I hope the Minister will be able to give reassuring answers.

Staffing and morale were both raised with the Committee as significant problems. We heard concerns about the level of vacancies in the service, the proportion of coastguards on fixed-term contracts and the loss of experienced staff. The coastguard service’s vacancy rate doubled between December 2010 and November 2012, when it stood at 13.8%. In other words, nearly one in seven posts in the service was vacant. Can the Minister tell us what the current vacancy rate is?

Going back to my hon. Friend’s comments, I continue to receive representations from coastguards. These include allegations of stress caused by understaffing, lack of leave and unreliable communications equipment. The high level of vacancies puts strain on coastguards, who must work harder to fill the gaps. What assessment has the Minister made of the high level of vacancies? Has sickness absence increased? Does the Department even monitor coastguards’ morale? What actions are management taking to help staff get through what is obviously a difficult and unsettling period of change?

Low morale and disillusionment with management were reflected in all the evidence the Committee received from coastguards. We have received further correspondence that reinforces that since our report was published. For example, we were told that the new contract offered to the coastguard

“increases the number of days worked, reduces the number of days off, reduces the annual hours leave, reduces the opportunity for leave, and reduces the pay by regrading the majority of the older staff to a lower level of pay, capping the shift allowance at a low rate and removing allowances for shoes and telephone line rental—all in all, these changes are unworkable to existing staff and are surely a case for constructive dismissal”.

We have also heard complaints from volunteer coastguards about the operation of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. Again, long-standing volunteer coastguards feel that they are no longer valued and are subsequently leaving the service. I have received representations from my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) that nine out of 13 volunteer staff at the Walney coastguard have resigned, claiming they have been bullied by MCA staff. Will there be an independent investigation into that? It is clearly a matter of grave concern.

Our report concluded that the loss of experienced coastguards was one of the most significant risks to the successful implementation of the Government’s modernisation programme. Everything we have heard since has confirmed that view. The Maritime and Coastguard Agency now has to manage another round of MRCC closures and find sufficient qualified staff to fill positions in the new maritime operations centre. This is a major challenge. Many experienced coastguards may prefer to leave the service than move to Fareham to take on new roles. Will the Minister tell us when recruitment of MOC staff will begin and what mix of skill and experience he will want staff working there to have? What assistance will be available to coastguards who wish to relocate to Fareham?

The coastguard reform programme will have been stretched over five years when it finally comes to an end in 2015. That is five years of uncertainty and worry for coastguards about their jobs, pay, and terms and conditions. My concern is that by the time the new system is operational, many experienced coastguards will have left, weakening an essential emergency service. I hope that the Minister can demonstrate today that he is actively trying to ensure that that does not happen.

The coastguard service is about saving lives. It is staffed by dedicated people. It deserves the unequivocal support of the Minister and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. I hope the Minister can assure us today that he is committed to securing the confidence of those who work in this essential service, so that the public’s safety can continue to be protected.

Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing

Debate between Louise Ellman and Jim Fitzpatrick

Thursday 22nd November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Ellman]

I agree with my hon. Friend. I certainly wish Ministers to listen to what I have to say, and I have numerous questions to pose to them, but the proceedings have started, so I must continue. I hope that the Minister will arrive before I have proceeded much further.

The ATOL scheme was introduced in the 1970s, a decade in which there was a dramatic increase in the number of people travelling abroad on package holidays. ATOL is a Government-backed insurance scheme that protects holidaymakers flying abroad from the effects if travel firms go bankrupt. Holidaymakers can be reimbursed for the cost of holidays and repatriated where necessary. Over the past three years, 250,000 people have received refunds as part of the scheme and 100,000 have been repatriated.

Firms covered by the ATOL scheme charge each passenger £2.50 to cover the cost of ATOL. However, at the time of our inquiry, the Air Travel Trust Fund from which payments are drawn was in deficit to the tune of £42 million. That deficit is now decreasing. I would be grateful if the Minister could tell us the latest figure, as it is important to have. The deficit is falling because the charge per passenger was recently increased from £1 to £2.50, but the scheme remains controversial. Currently, only about half of holiday bookings are covered, an issue at the heart of ATOL reform.

The situation is complicated. Traditional package holidays sold by travel agents and tour operators are covered by ATOL. Holidays sold by agents or firms defined as acting as agents for the consumer, particularly online, are not. Firms selling holidays not covered by the scheme have a competitive advantage, because they do not have to charge for ATOL cover. However, it is not clear whether consumers are aware of that difference. There is also the problem of who pays for repatriating travellers stranded abroad by the bankruptcy of an airline or agent not covered by the scheme.

The Government are in the process of changing ATOL. Two reforms have already been made. First, “flight-plus” holidays—in which a flight plus another part of the holiday, such as a hotel booking or car hire, is bought within a 48-hour window—sold by existing ATOL operators are now covered. Secondly, customers buying holiday packages covered by ATOL must now be issued with a certificate telling them that that is the case. Those two changes are an advance.

The extension of ATOL to certain flight-plus holidays is estimated to bring some 6 million additional holidays into the scheme, ensuring that 60% of holidaymakers are covered. The extra revenue brought into the scheme by those extra travellers should help reduce the charge per passenger, but operators have challenged the Government’s figures, claiming that the travel industry will find ways around the new regulations.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

My hon. Friend is outlining clearly the background to the ATOL scheme and illustrating the details. She mentioned the changes. On Tuesday, we had the opportunity to debate in the Chamber the Lords amendments to the Civil Aviation Bill, and the Minister moved amendments to improve the ATOL scheme. Will she be referring in her remarks to how those amendments improve the scheme? They relate to what she is discussing, and they go part of the way towards what she wants addressed, which is the 21st-century way of booking holidays.

[Mrs Ellman]

Yes, I will be referring to that point. I would like some information from the Minister on what has happened in practice since the scheme was changed in April.

Our other concern about the extension of ATOL involved the lack of consumer input into the changes. The Government’s consultation on the change attracted just four responses from consumer groups, which I find pretty amazing, because I have had responses from constituents concerned about the scheme as it was operating. The responses from those four consumer groups hardly seemed to feature in the Government’s analysis. Only one consumer group, Holiday Travel Watch, submitted evidence to our inquiry, opposing the extension of ATOL to flight-plus holidays.

The Committee was concerned, as was I, about the minimal consumer response. We need to know what consumers think about the proposed changes and how they are working, and what further changes consumers want.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

Having read the recommendations from my hon. Friend’s Committee and the Government response, one of the questions that I will be asking the Minister later—reinforcing what she is asking at the moment—is about the Government’s saying that the responsibility for ensuring protection against the collapse of a holiday lies with the consumer. Part of the great difficulty is that consumers do not pay enough attention to whether they are insured and, if they get stranded, the taxpayer picks up the bill.

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend’s comments reflect views that the Committee has heard over a long period—we have been looking at the issue for a number of years. Particularly when people are stranded on holiday and have problems, we realise that those consumers simply did not know what they were covered for or indeed whether they were covered. That has to be a key issue for the Government. They have partially addressed it, but I will say later how I think that that is proceeding.

The Government were well placed to overcome the problem of that relative lack of formal reaction from consumers and consumer groups by commissioning their own research into whether consumers understood the concept of ATOL cover and whether they wanted it to apply to packages that they assemble themselves online. We must remember the changing nature of the way in which people organise their holidays, because individual consumers organising their own holidays and assembling packages online is a growing trend, so it is important for us to know what consumer views are and about the type of insurance that they think most appropriate. Up until now, however, the Government have not done that. The extension of the scheme has not been based on explicit consumer research, and I want the Minister to tell us why the Government did not do more to find out specifically what consumers want.

The Committee welcomed the introduction of the ATOL certificate, which will increase clarity for consumers about their cover. We have found a consistent issue over the years to be that passengers and holidaymakers simply do not know what they are covered for. There is a risk, however, that consumers who buy holidays that are not ATOL protected will not realise that. Owing to the Government’s positive action, the people who are now ATOL protected will know that they are covered, but the ones who are not covered will not know, because they will not have a certificate. Do the people without a certificate realise that that means they are not covered by ATOL? We simply do not know.

More could be done to inform consumers not covered by scheme of their position and options. The Government agreed to consider our suggestion, perhaps by introducing a voluntary scheme for airlines to inform customers of their protection—or lack of it—when buying a flight. Can the Minister tell me what progress has been made in taking that suggestion forward?

Flight Time Limitations

Debate between Louise Ellman and Jim Fitzpatrick

Thursday 22nd November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

We now come to our second debate of the afternoon on the flight time limitations applying to airline pilots and cabin crew. The subject is complex, but it has a direct and major effect on anyone who flies on a commercial aircraft. Fundamentally, it is about safety—regulating the hours and working practices of air crew so that they are not too tired to do their jobs and can keep passengers and crews safe. It is a matter of crucial importance.

Human error is associated with around 80% of aviation accidents. A major research study has shown that pilot fatigue contributes to between 15% and 20% of fatal air accidents. Fatigue makes it harder for people to concentrate, decreases reaction times, and increases the risk of people lapsing momentarily into unconsciousness or sleep. All such problems can prove fatal if the fatigued person is piloting an aircraft.

The most shocking statistic that we came across during our inquiry was from the British Airline Pilots Association. A survey of its members found that 43% of pilots reported involuntarily falling asleep while on the flight deck. Of those, 31% awoke to find their co-pilot asleep. That demonstrates why the subject of flight time limitations is so deserving of our attention.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

I am grateful that my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), who is Chair of the Transport Committee, has raised that statistic; it certainly saves me raising it later on. It truly is shocking. Has she considered what the impact will be of the proposal to reduce the number of pilots on some long-haul flights from three to two given that they might both be asleep, or does she have further information about whether there might only have been two pilots on such aircraft at the time?

[Mrs Ellman]

I will take up that point in a moment.

Flight time limitations are a complex package of measures, dealing with how working hours are distributed over the year, start and finish times, rest periods, and the impact of time zones. UK airlines are currently regulated by the Civil Aviation Authority. The major change that sparked our inquiry is that the rules are now being set at an EU level by the European Aviation Safety Agency, which is based in Cologne. As part of our inquiry we visited EASA, to discuss its work with the agency’s director.

The UK’s flight time limits are set by the CAA, which is permissible under EU regulations. In 2009, EASA started a process of establishing a Europe-wide scheme, and the UK Government are part of those negotiations, so the matter has not come on us suddenly. The advantage in establishing EU-wide flight time limitations is that safety standards across the EU are expected to rise, which will benefit passengers travelling on European carriers. However, there is also a real risk that well-established UK standards will be reduced as part of the process of achieving consensus across the EU. In addition, there are serious questions about EASA’s work, particularly in relation to how it has used scientific advice. More plainly, there are questions about how EASA did not use the latest scientific advice in assessing safe standards.

Many aspects of flight time limitations are relatively uncontentious, but some have generated passionate debate. I will focus this afternoon on the most hotly contested issues, and I will set out my Committee’s conclusions.

We looked at the proposals that were published by EASA in January this year. EASA has since published its formal opinion, which will now be reviewed by the European Commission before coming into law. I will be putting some questions to the Minister about EASA’s latest conclusions. Again, I stress that we are not talking about the EU suddenly announcing a decision without proper consultation. This country, including the Department for Transport, is part of that ongoing and long consultation, so it has an active part to play.

One of the main concerns of the Committee was about the number of hours that crew can fly overnight. The scientific advice provided to EASA has been clear in recommending that the proposed 11-hour duty period was too long and that the limit should be 10 hours. The Government told us that they would not press EASA to change its proposals, arguing instead for more active management of long overnight flight duty periods. In that, the Government were successful. But why is the Minister satisfied that pilots will be allowed to fly overnight for one more hour than scientific opinion considers to be the safe limit? That is an extremely serious matter.

Another concern was about the very long duty periods allowed for under EASA’s proposals. We heard that a pilot could be landing a plane after 19 hours at work and perhaps after 21 or 22 hours of being awake. The CAA described that scenario as “exceptionally rare”, but I do not think that anyone here today would be happy to fly if they knew that their pilot had been working around the clock, however unusual that situation is alleged to be.

EASA’s new proposals seem to improve that situation, with a cap on airport stand-by and associated flight duty of 16 hours. However, BALPA has put a new scenario to us that shows how other aspects of the rules could lead to a pilot working for almost 24 hours, if a long period on stand-by waiting for a delay to an aircraft to be resolved is followed by a normal duty period. I would be grateful for the Minister’s observations on a situation of that nature.

Select Committee Inquiry (Aviation Strategy)

Debate between Louise Ellman and Jim Fitzpatrick

Thursday 13th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Ellman]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments, but I have to confirm that the Committee has an open mind and that it will be willing—and, indeed, keen—to receive evidence on a diverse range of options, all of which will be considered.

The terms of reference for our inquiry will be published on our website today. We want to hear a wide range of views on the Government’s aviation policy, and we are asking a number of questions. I would like briefly to outline some of the issues on which we would like to receive evidence. I emphasise, however, that this is not an exclusive list.

We will consider what the objectives of Government policy on aviation should be. We want to hear about the benefits aviation brings to the UK economy and how important the issue of international aviation connectivity is to UK industry. We are also interested in hearing about where aviation should fit in the Government’s wider transport strategy, as well as about the impact of air passenger duty. Should there be a step change in aviation capacity? How should we make best use of existing capacity? The Government hope that their current strategy will make the best use of capacity in London, but are their current plans sufficient or appropriate? Are airports situated in the regions outside the south-east sufficiently supported, and do they have a proper place in the Government’s strategy?

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) and I had meetings this morning with representatives of Britain’s regional airports, which are advocating a differential for air passenger duty as a way of stimulating greater use of regional airports, taking the pressure off both London Heathrow and Gatwick. This is an interesting suggestion that has recently come forward. My hon. Friend mentioned air passenger duty; will this be an issue that her inquiry will look at?

[Mrs Ellman]

That issue will be considered, as the terms of reference for our inquiry specifically include it.

We would like to hear about how we could improve the passenger experience and operational resilience at UK airports. We invite views on the constraints of increasing UK aviation capacity and on environmental concerns.

Civil Aviation Bill

Debate between Louise Ellman and Jim Fitzpatrick

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I accept that point. I suggested in Committee that there should be a delineation of the differences between licensed airports, given that all airports have a licence of some description. Given that the most difficult passenger experiences of recent years have been at Heathrow, given that an indicative licence has been published for Heathrow and given that Heathrow is the market leader and our only hub airport, whatever Heathrow does will be examined by everybody else. If the CAA says that it expects Heathrow to do something, that might be adopted by other airports. We therefore do not think that it would be inappropriate to include this requirement in the licence, even if it applies only to Heathrow, because it would be copied as best practice by the other first-class airports around the country.

We all want to ensure that there is a good passenger experience, especially for those with disabilities, as was discussed in Committee and as is outlined in new clause 2. We hope that the situation will be better as a result of the Bill and are confident that it will be. We congratulate the Government on bringing it forward. However, we think that it would be much better if, in addition to more and clearer data being published on the passenger experience, there was a simple licence requirement, as outlined in amendment 9. We will seek the view of the House on that if the Minister is not able to reassure us in the course of the debate.

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

This group of amendments draws attention to the importance of the passenger experience. The Transport Committee has looked at that theme a number of times over the years. Some improvements have been made, but there are still major questions, some of which are raised by the amendments.

Overriding the specific points made by the amendments is the general question of who speaks for passengers. The previous organisation, the Air Transport Users Council airport consultative committee, stopped being responsible for airing passengers’ views. It was suggested that Passenger Focus might take up that responsibility, but that did not materialise. When the Transport Committee questioned the CAA in our pre-legislative scrutiny, it told us that it was setting up a panel. When we asked what form the panel would take, how its members would be chosen and how it would operate, the answers were unclear. There is still a big question mark over whether there is effective representation for air passengers. Such representation does not seem to be enshrined in the Bill. I would like to hear the Minister’s comments on that.