Middle East and North Africa

Louise Ellman Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests about a visit to Israel and the Palestinian territories.

I thank the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) for securing this important, timely debate. In his contribution he displayed both his expertise on the whole area and his sensitivity to the involvement and suffering of so many different parties in that region. I want to focus my comments on the Israeli-Palestinian issue and, in particular, the horrifying events under way in Gaza, but what happens in Israel and the Palestinian territories is of course much affected by what happens in a turbulent neighbourhood. The right hon. Gentleman referred to the hundreds of thousands of people killed in Syria and the millions of people there who have been displaced. That ongoing issue is causing widespread concern.

I start by saying that all civilian deaths are tragic. A civilian death on any side of a dispute is equal to that on the other. It is all tragic and it should all be avoided. It is a great cause for concern that John Kerry’s initiative has, up to now, not succeeded. The overall situation will only be resolved by a negotiated agreement on setting up a Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel. That means agreement on borders based on the 1967 boundaries, on how to share Jerusalem and on dealing with refugee issues on both sides. As long as that is not secured, there will be disputes.

The current situation in Gaza is intolerable. The Israelis withdrew all their 8,000 settlers and soldiers in 2005. Some were withdrawn forcibly by the Israeli army. There followed a short time when Israel and the Palestinian Authority had an agreement. For the very first time, Gaza was ruled by Palestinians, but that was short-lived. Hamas came to power, and it has to be recognised for what it is: a terrorist organisation. It is recognised to be so by, among others, the USA, Jordan, the European Union and Japan. Its 1988 charter—in other words, a recent, modern charter—contains elements that are blood-curdling. It talks about Jews running the worldwide media and Jews being responsible for such things as the French revolution and the Russian revolution. Hamas is a terrorist organisation that will not accept the existence of Israel. It is not interested in boundaries. It finds the concept of the majority Jewish state of Israel as anathema in that region, and that has to be remembered.

What is happening now is that Hamas decided to launch an attack, targeted on Israeli civilians. At the last count, although it may well be an underestimate, some 1,350 rockets have been launched, targeted on 70% of Israeli civilians.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is making an excellent speech. Will she confirm the size and scale of the rockets? Some who seek to defend the action from Gaza refer to the rockets as little more than fireworks, but they are a new type of rocket from Hamas with a payload of 300 lb and a range of 100 miles or more. That should not be forgotten.

[Mrs Ellman]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. Those rockets are aimed at and landing on places such as Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Haifa. Munir al-Masri, a senior Hamas spokesperson, stated only two days ago, on 15 July:

“Hamas will continue hitting Israel until the last Zionist leaves the whole of Palestine, from the sea to the river.”

It is pretty clear what this is all about.

The situation is intolerable. Neither the Israeli Government nor any other Government could countenance this targeted attack on their citizens, the aim of which is to kill and to destroy. It is interesting to note the comment made by Gershon Baskin, who is renowned for his efforts working with Palestinians and Israelis to seek peace. Indeed, he was a pivotal figure in the release of Gilad Shalit. He spoke only last week of his absolute despair. He said that he called on the Hamas leadership not to intensify its actions. He knows that his message went right to the top, to Khaled Meshaal, the Hamas leader. With absolute despair, he said that the Hamas leader simply said, “Bring it on.” The situation is extremely grave.

A large number of Palestinian civilians have been killed or injured, which is a matter of deep regret. It is a tragedy for them as much as it would be for Israelis to be injured or killed. The responsibility for the deaths and injuries has to lie with those who decided to put their rocket bases, launchers and headquarters in civilian populations—Hamas. Indeed, a senior Hamas spokesman, Sami Abu Zuhri, said only two days ago, on 15 July:

“The fact that people are willing to sacrifice themselves against Israeli weapons in order to protect their homes is a strategy that is proving itself.”

The Israelis feel that they have to stop those deadly rockets being launched, deliberately targeted at Israeli citizens. The Israelis know that they have to go to civilian areas, and they are consciously and as a matter of policy informing the civilians in those areas about what is about to happen and asking them to leave, because they do not wish to have civilian casualties. It is clear from that statement—there are many others—that the Hamas leadership is gloating over the situation and the death of its own citizens. That is absolutely deplorable and should not be countenanced.

[Robert Halfon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her thoughtful speech. Are we not in a crazy situation where Israel is being criticised for defending itself too well, because the Iron Dome is stopping many of the missiles and preventing many thousands of Israeli citizens from being killed?

[Mrs Ellman]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Hamas has been threatening this type of action for a long time. It has clearly stated that it does not accept the existence of the Israeli state and that it will attack it. It has been building up its weaponry; Hamas now holds Iranian weapons. Indeed, recently, in March, Israel intercepted an Iranian ship with a cargo of weapons, including advanced weapons, heading for Gaza and for Hamas. Hamas has been organising itself to attack, so, naturally, a responsible Israeli Government have been preparing for that through defensive means. The Iron Dome was constructed so that the weapons—the shells, the rockets—coming over from Gaza, targeted on Israeli civilians, could be stopped without any Palestinian civilian loss of life. That is what the Israeli Government have deliberately done.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

Is my hon. Friend not aware that in the recent hostilities 200 Palestinians have already died and that water and sewerage works have been targeted by Israeli planes? Does she not think that the siege of Gaza, which has now gone on for a very long time, is a contributory factor? Does she not think that the inability of Israel to recognise Palestinian needs and rights is a major cause of the problem?

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend makes some interesting observations. I am well aware of the deaths and injuries sustained by Palestinian civilians. I deeply regret them and think they are a great tragedy, but those civilians were in that situation because Hamas deliberately put its weapons and launching bases among them. As I indicated by referring to the recent comments from Hamas spokespeople, Hamas seems to be gloating and sees its policy as working. On the other factors my hon. Friend mentioned, I go back to the facts I declared earlier. Israel withdrew all its settlers and soldiers from Gaza in 2008. When, a year after that, Hamas, which was then running Gaza, decided to attack Israeli civilians, the Israelis had to take some steps to try to protect themselves.

The solution to this dreadful situation is of course for there to be an overall peace settlement, recognising the rights of the two peoples, the Israelis and the Palestinians, to have their states and to live in security and peace alongside one another in a region that will support them. The Kerry initiative has not up to now succeeded, but no one should abandon hope, and I hope that it can be resumed. It does not mean, however, that nothing can be done. What should be done now is for Hamas to stop sending its rockets against Israeli civilians. The Israelis then would, and should, stop their attacks on the missile sites in Gaza. I hope that that will provide the basis for a long-term ceasefire and, ultimately, lead to a peace in which all peoples of the region can have the peace they deserve.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Burden]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point and speaks with a wealth of experience.

The question is, what do we do? First of all, if there is going to be a ceasefire, as we all hope, it has to be serious and it has to work. Secondly, let us not make life any more difficult from our side. Every time Britain supplies arms to Israel—we do not supply arms to Hamas, because there is an arms embargo—we do so under strict criteria called the EU consolidated criteria, with the condition that they are not to be used for external aggression or internal repression. Under the Labour Government—and I think under this Government—use in the occupied territories was seen to run contrary to that condition. Every time there is a flare-up, it is asked, “Were British arms used?” At best, the reply is “We are not quite sure”; at worst, it is, “Probably, yes, they were.” Every time, we say that to Israel, but it happens again, so my first question to the Minister is: are British arms being used? If they are, what will we do to stop it? If we do not know, there should be an arms embargo.

The next point is that if we want a ceasefire to turn into peace, we have to tackle the causes. There is a narrative that says that if Hamas just stopped its rockets, things would be okay—the idea is that quiet will be met with quiet. The last time there was a flare-up like this one was in November 2012. In November 2013 the United Nations—not Hamas, not the Palestinians, but the United Nations—produced a humanitarian bulletin from OCHA, the Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs. I quote:

“November marked one year since the Egyptian-mediated ceasefire understanding between Israel and Hamas, which ended an eight day escalation of hostilities. The year that passed has witnessed the lowest level of violence and civilian casualties registered in Gaza and southern Israel in 13 years. Additionally, there has been limited improvement in people’s access to fishing areas at sea and to farming areas along the fence with Israel. Overall, however, Gaza has seen a deterioration in living conditions. The majority of the Israeli imposed restrictions on the movement of people and goods to and from the Gaza Strip have remained in place, with at least one of them (import of building materials) tightened.”

That same humanitarian report also talked about the growing sanitation and water crisis in Gaza and an escalation in dispossessions and demolitions in East Jerusalem. That was during a period of relative quiet.

I was in the west bank at the end of last year with my right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw). We saw dispossessions being threatened and schools threatened with demolition to make way for settlements. Someone might say that I have my own view on the issue and that it is not unbiased, so let us not listen to me; we will listen to the United Nations again. This is from 2 June this year:

“UNRWA is gravely concerned about recent steps taken by the Israeli authorities that appear to advance plans to transfer Palestinian Bedouin communities in the central West Bank, the large majority of which consist of Palestine refugees.”

That report goes on to say that they are

“located in the E1 and Ma’ale Adumim areas, which are slated for further Israeli settlement development. Additionally in recent months, the ICA appears to be intensifying measures that are displacing or threatening to displace many of the Bedouin communities targeted for transfer.”

It simply is not true that quiet is met by quiet. Quiet is met by continued settlement building, displacement and occupation. We should not think that there will be a real and lasting peace unless those things are addressed; there will not be.

Imagine if the tables were turned—that somehow, in that mythical world, the Palestinians suddenly got the kind of military power that Israel has, and said, “We want to build some settlements in Galilee. A lot of Palestinians live there. We want to take over the homes of a few Jewish Israelis and build there.” Are we honestly saying that all the west would say to that is, “That’s not a very good thing to do—please stop”? Of course we would not. We would demand that they stop. We would talk about international law—and we would be right to—and would implement it.

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend is talking about important but wider issues. Does he agree that Hamas should stop firing rockets targeted at Israeli citizens?

[Richard Burden]

I think it was pretty clear from my opening remarks that the answer to that is an unequivocal yes, but that gets us no further. It is a statement of fact that Hamas should stop firing rockets, and that if it fires rockets at civilian areas that is a war crime that deserves to be condemned. It has to stop; I say that to Hamas. However, that does not in any way justify a continued occupation. My point is that unless we tackle that issue we will not move towards peace. In plain speaking, settlement building is illegal.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Percy]

It absolutely does. It is appalling that, simply because there have been more deaths on one side, some people conclude that the response has been disproportionate. Hamas chooses to use civilians in such a way because, let us be honest, the more bodies that are photographed, the better it is for Hamas’s PR campaign. That is a terrible situation, but why else would the Ministry of the Interior be telling its citizens to ignore warnings to leave their homes because of an impending strike? What other reason could there be?

[Mrs Ellman]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that his comment about Hamas is verified by the public statement made by Sami Abu Zuhri on 15 July, who said:

“The fact that people are willing to sacrifice themselves against Israeli weapons in order to protect their homes is a strategy that is proving itself”?

[Andrew Percy]

The hon. Lady puts it perfectly. That is a strategy.

I will move on because time is pressing. What would we do in such a situation? If 65% to 75% of our population was in range—

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I apologise, Mr Sheridan, because I may not be here for part of the winding-up speeches, as there is a ministerial meeting with the all-party group on the African great lakes region at 4 pm.

I congratulate the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) on obtaining the debate. I am sure that when he applied for it and I supported the application, we assumed that it would be about the entire region and north Africa; inevitably, however, in view of the crisis, Gaza and the west bank will dominate the debate. I have recorded relevant interests in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, having visited Israel and Palestine nine times over the years.

My last visit to Gaza was depressing in the extreme, because I saw a place surrounded by a 1 km wide no-go zone. Anyone who ventures into that zone, whether a farmer or anyone else, will automatically be shot by machine guns placed on the fence between Gaza and Israel. Any fishing boat that goes more than a very short distance from shore will be shot at by Israeli naval vessels, and every day, all the time, surveillance planes, drones and so on fly over the Gaza strip. The people there live under siege and have done for a long time.

I know people in the Gaza Community Mental Health Foundation and Dr Munah Farah well. Their estimation is that at least two thirds of the population of Gaza suffer medical stress from the way they live, with constant food and water shortages, and constant insecurity of supply. That has been happening to those people not for just a few months but for many years. They live in an open-air prison, created and continued by the state of Israel. That is the cause of the deepest anger and frustration among ordinary people in Gaza. We would be angry and frustrated as well, if it was done to us.

[Mrs Ellman]

My hon. Friend describes a distressing situation; but does he recognise that it arose after Israel removed all its settlers and soldiers in 2005, only for Hamas to take control of Gaza and intensify rocket attacks on Israeli civilians?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

My hon. Friend has made that point many times. Israel withdrew its unwelcome settlements in 2005, as she points out, but it maintained border control and surveillance. It is not just that there has been bombing recently; there has been regular bombing by Israeli jets of targets along the Gaza strip. I make my point again: no one should live in an open-air prison, facing such horror and continued destruction.

--- Later in debate ---

[Grahame M. Morris]

The right hon. Member for Mid Sussex said that he had heard the same responses for 30 years. I ask the Minister this: is it not beyond time that the international community, with Britain at the forefront, lived up to its obligation to end this humanitarian disaster? For 30 years we have seen this happening, and we are having the same debates over and over again, with no progress to report. We can no longer continue to focus exclusively on negotiations. I will do everything I can—I think I will be protesting outside the Israeli embassy on Saturday—to further the cause of peace and a ceasefire. We have to go beyond focusing on negotiations. We cannot continue to ignore the main barriers to peace, which include the failure to hold Israel accountable for its human rights violations. The annexations—

[Mrs Ellman]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Grahame M. Morris]

I will give way only once, because I am very short of time.

[Mrs Ellman]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. There is no doubt that in this long-running tragic dispute there is fault on all sides. However, does he think that the Palestinians are in any way culpable for jeopardising the possibility of peace, when after the Oslo accords were signed the Palestinian Authority—under the leadership of Yasser Arafat—unleashed a series of suicide bombings on the young people of Jerusalem?

[Grahame M. Morris]

I was going to come on to the Oslo accords and their consequences. I know that my hon. Friend raised issues earlier relating to some of the things that had happened—the reactions and so on—but we have to move on. It is 20 years since Oslo. On the undertakings given, particularly in respect of the withdrawal from Gaza, we are talking about illegal settlements that were set up by Israel and were against international conventions.

The Deputy Prime Minister recently acknowledged the collective punishments dished out to the Palestinian people, which have consequences in terms of brutalising people. As was said earlier, the current military action will, I am sure, degrade the capability of Hamas and other extremist groups to wage an armed campaign against Israel, but sadly it will be counter-productive, because it will radicalise many thousands, or potentially millions, of others in Gaza, the west bank and a number of countries, perhaps even in Europe. The Israelis, who hold all the cards and have all the power and might, have to recognise that the way to peace and justice for both Israel and Palestine is a just and negotiated settlement. We have to tackle the root cause, and we have to hold Israel accountable for its human rights violations, the annexation of Palestinian land and the continued expansion of illegal settlements; they are illegal in international law.

I have had the opportunity to go and see some of these settlements. I was accompanied by Jewish human rights groups, who share the concerns of the international community about some of the things that have been happening, such as the infrastructure network being available exclusively to Israeli settlements and the restrictions on the water resources, which particularly affect the Bedouin Arabs. They have a miserable existence. When I went to see them, I had a vision of a “Lawrence of Arabia”-type situation, with lovely tents and so on, but they live in absolute squalor, moving from place to place, and they are restricted, with the Israeli authorities declaring areas—on a whim, it would appear—to be military training areas or national parks. That is just a clear abuse, and a collective punishment, and it has to stop if we are to see a just and lasting peace.

The Minister is new to his post and I wish him well, because we have had these arguments before, even though I have only been a Member of this House for four years. It is a serious issue and I do not mean to laugh, but his predecessor, the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire, will know that we have had lengthy debates and informal meetings, and we have tried every which way to push these things forward in a reasonable and businesslike fashion. I want the UK Government to be serious, and I hope that when my party is sitting on the Government Benches in a year’s time, we will be much more proactive.

We need to replace rhetoric with actions and demand an immediate end to the blockade of Gaza. We have heard from right hon. and hon. Members, including those who have visited Gaza, about the suffering of the people, and about the impact on the water supply, the sewerage system, and the hospitals. We must insist on an end to this blockade, and a complete freeze on illegal settlement growth. We must also halt trade with and investment in illegal Israeli settlements in the west bank. We should support a phased approach to ending the occupation of the west bank and East Jerusalem, and have greater international mediation, with a larger role for the EU. Most importantly, the international community must set out clear parameters, targets and consequences to the failure to end violations in order to make progress. I know that targets are not popular with the Conservatives, but those targets should include sanctions when Israel does not comply.

We must understand the crisis in the wider context, which is a seven-year blockade of Gaza that has left its people facing an absolute humanitarian crisis. We had an excellent debate here in Westminster Hall, in which the impact of that crisis was elaborated on, but it is time to go beyond rhetoric. We need action from the British Government; they must take a lead.