Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Lord Watts Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 6th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I made no reference to good or evil. I am talking about operational efficiency. I am sure the noble Lord is correct in drawing attention, as has happened several times today, to the deficiencies of the current operation of the west coast main line, but other noble Lords have rightly drawn attention to the fact that there are private sector operators in this country currently operating with the efficiency levels that he refers to, and better—so the private sector has a lot to be said for it as well.

The fact is that public ownership is something about which the country largely breathed a sigh of relief when we moved away from it—rightly or wrongly, whatever the history behind that might have been—and every other European country over the last few years has moved away from exclusive public ownership operation. Even train companies such as Deutsche Bahn, which stood once at the pinnacle of public regard, are now something of a joke in their own country.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

I am only trying to move an amendment.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

It is the introduction to it that is the problem. Is it not the case that the public support public ownership of the railways, and that the public sector had to take over the east coast line because the private company failed to deliver the service?

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord brings me to exactly my point. The benefits of public ownership that the noble Lord was able to refer to were, first, that it is popular and, secondly, that it was in the manifesto. Those two things might be absolutely true, but they are not quantifiable passenger benefits. They are not passenger benefits at all; they are political facts that sit there in the background.

Of course the system has broken down, especially since Covid. I have acknowledged that, and the need for reform. What this amendment seeks to do is allow a degree of variability, non-uniformity, difference of practice, choice, options to the Government, rather than having a single, purely nationalised, purely state-controlled machine that we are told will bring us benefits, one of which, as far as I can make out, will be flexibility.

I really did not discern any others, except that we will not be paying fees to private sector operators—a point the Minister has made several times. We will not, but in the picture of the cost of running the railways the fees are extremely small; they are a tiny percentage of what is involved. If the private sector can continue, post Covid, to generate the sort of growth in passenger numbers that it generated before Covid after privatisation, and we can get back to those happy days, the amount of money being paid to operators would be swamped by the revenues that would be coming in. That is the bar that public ownership has to match and we have no guarantees that it will do so. We are asked to take the whole thing on trust. To that extent, I wish to press my Amendment 5 and test the opinion of the House on it.

Road Investment Strategy

Lord Watts Excerpts

Wednesday 11th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

If the objective is economic growth, jobs and housing—I am pleased that the noble Lord agrees—we should choose those transport projects that contribute the most to it in various parts of the country. I have a wry smile because he was the deputy chair of Transport for London when I was the commissioner, and between us we probably removed more road space from the streets of central London for a Conservative mayor, so I am not sure that this alleged war on motorists is quite as one-sided as he might suppose. It is very important that the highways are managed in the best way possible because transport is a facilitator of growth, jobs and housing. The projects that we are able to choose to fund in these difficult circumstances should always be the ones that deliver the most in those categories.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, filling in potholes is a temporary measure. On many of our roads, the substructure has gone because of a lack of investment over many years, especially under the last Government. Are the Government trying to do something about the long-term state of our roads?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I agree with the noble Lord that filling potholes is a temporary measure. It is a shorthand for having the roads in better condition. I could bore the House with how the condition of roads is measured, but I will not. Filling potholes is a temporary measure; we are using that phrase to seek to improve the general condition of roads for the safety of all road users.

High-speed Rail Services: West Coast Main Line

Lord Watts Excerpts

Wednesday 4th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The noble Lord’s question in relation to Euston is germane in relation to the usefulness of HS2. The Government have been left with a position where many things have been promised and there is not enough funding for them all. However, we are reviewing the position on Euston urgently and intend to respond when we can to the proposition to extend HS2 from Old Oak Common to Euston.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Goddard of Stockport (LD)]

My Lords, it is this side. I have been waiting for a train for 20 minutes.

I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, for asking the first friendly Question on railways in the almost 10 years that I have been in this House. He hits the nail on the head. What matters is capacity; this was never about speed. Many times, you get on a train at Euston and the train manager says, “If we don’t leave in two minutes, we’ll be behind the slow train to Milton Keynes or Watford”, and, similarly, from Crewe. Will the Minister liaise with the elected mayors of Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham and keep trying to work with them? They are the people who understand more about the need to move people around for business, pleasure, leisure and life opportunities.

Also, in the spirit of glasnost, can the Minister keep this House involved in future progress? As the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, just said, the money must come from somewhere. It has been found for the pay offer for the rail drivers. Perhaps it can now be found for the public who travel on those trains.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, this side!

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My apologies: I believe that this is a question for the Conservative Benches.

HS2

Lord Watts Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

A project is already in execution to improve railway connectivity between Manchester and Leeds, the trans-Pennine route upgrade. It is currently valued at some £11 billion and is in the course of delivery.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, when the last Government cancelled High Speed 2, they said that they would transfer the money into northern schemes but, as we know, a lot of it was spent in other areas. Can the Minister guarantee that when the review takes place, he will make sure that the north gets its fair share of transport infrastructure?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

Reintroducing the High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) Bill will be great evidence that the Government are thinking of improving easy-west connectivity in northern England and continuing the work that the trans-Pennine upgrade is already starting for a modern, high-speed and high-capacity railway all the way across between Liverpool, Hull and other places on the east coast.