Sports Grounds Safety Authority Bill

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Excerpts

Friday 13th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie]

My Lords, I, too, welcome the fact that the Bill has been promoted by the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, and there can be no more appropriate person to do so, given his history, as the noble Lord, Lord Mawhinney, and my noble friend Lord Davies of Oldham have attested. I pay tribute to the work of my noble friend Lord Faulkner, particularly for his role at the Football Grounds Improvement Trust and its later incarnation, because many football grounds the length and breadth of this country, and in the UK as a whole, have facilities that were paid for largely through the auspices of that organisation.

I have to declare an interest—not as a former director or current supporter and season ticket holder of Dundee United, but as a member of an organisation called the Dons Trust, which owns AFC Wimbledon, a club with which my noble friend Lord Faulkner will be familiar in his role at the Football Conference. AFC Wimbledon was formed nine years ago when the original Wimbledon FC had its identity stolen by the FA and handed in the form of a franchise to some people in Milton Keynes who wanted to start a club. The supporters’ reaction was to form their own club and, four promotions later, the club stands on the cusp of the Football League—regaining the status that it lost nine years ago. In nine days’ time, I very much hope that that is something they will duly achieve.

The Bill is welcome, and there have been past attempts to introduce a Bill with similar aims. It certainly makes a good deal of sense, not least with the approaching Olympics and the many requirements of sports grounds and facilities that have to be put into proper order for that momentous event. It is also important to extend those improvements to sports such as cricket and rugby.

Rugby has expanded exponentially south of the border—I should say that as a Scot—but it has tread a considerable amount of water north of the border, and continues to do so. South of the border, the professional game is very successful and new clubs are emerging, such as Worcester some years ago, who are poised to regain their place at the top level, and Exeter, who did that a year ago and have happily retained it. Clubs such as those will be looking to the new authority for advice, and it is appropriate that it should be open to receive such requests. There is also cricket. Twenty20 cricket has taken off considerably now and it is not just at test grounds that considerable crowds are attracted by that form of the game. Therefore, it is important that smaller grounds should have advice made available to them if they want it.

I read the Hansard reports of the debates when the Bill was being considered in another place. I noticed that in Committee, Mr Ian Austin, who is the Opposition's spokesperson on sport and the Olympics, asked the Minister, Mr Robertson:

“The Secretary of State with responsibility for the Cabinet Office has been reported as saying that responsibility for safety at grounds would now shift to local authorities. Can the Minister provide some more detail about that?”.—[Official Report, Commons, Sports Grounds Safety Authority Bill Committee, 19/1/11; col. 5.]

In his response, the Minister said many things, but he did not respond to that point. I should be grateful if the Minister could say something on that when he responds.

Another point I want to make, although I know it is not within the remit of the authority at the moment, concerns allowing spectators at the top two levels of football to stand at football grounds. I understand the sensitivities of that, post the dreadful events of Hillsborough in 1989, which led to many of the safety precautions that we have and take for granted today, but there ought to be room for consideration of the reintroduction of some standing areas at grounds. I notice that the Minister, Mr Robertson, recently met the Football Supporters’ Federation, a body that represents about 150,000 football supporters in England and Wales, and said that he would consider the strong case that it put to him on the question of standing.

Although I am sensitive to what caused standing to be outlawed at the top two levels originally, I simply say that the attitudes and behaviour of supporters have moved on considerably in the two decades since, and so has stadium technology. That makes it much simpler for the police to control crowds in ways that were not open to them then. Given that a Private Member’s Bill has been introduced in another place by Mr Don Foster, given that that is apparently the policy of the Liberal Democrats, and given that 145 MPs signed an Early Day Motion in favour of that, I hope that the Government are considering it and listening to representations, and that at some stage the new authority will be able to consider representations on that important subject.

Finally, I wish to raise a point of clarification; this may be aimed at the clerks as much as anyone else. I notice that Clause 2(1)(a) states:

“The Authority … may provide relevant advice to a Minister of the Crown”.

Clause 3(2)(a) states:

“The Authority may not under subsection (1) provide advice to … a Minister of the Crown”.

There must be a perfectly simple explanation as to why those apparently contradictory clauses are there, and I would value someone informing me about that apparent contradiction.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lyell]

My Lords, I apologise very humbly to your Lordships and above all to the noble Baroness, Lady Billingham, who might have thought that she was going to be able to make a quick start. However, I shall be very brief. It is entirely appropriate that an earlier speaker in this excellent Second Reading debate was the noble Lord, Lord Watson of Invergowrie, who I think said he had mislaid his glasses. I frequently do the same and did not notice that I had not put my name down to speak, and for that I apologise.

The one point that I want to make concerns what I refer to as the Berwick question. This is the more puckish view of a Scot, and I declare my interest as honorary patron of a wonderful football club in the county of Angus called Forfar Athletic. Indeed, the only clean tie that I found in my drawer this morning was that of Forfar Athletic. I know that one is not supposed to advertise too much in your Lordships’ House, but the tie is blue and I am happy to do so.

I have one query, of which I have given warning to the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, who so ably presented the Bill. It concerns Berwick Rangers, who play at Shielfield Park in Berwick. Indeed, with luck, at about seven o’clock this evening I shall be passing their ground. As your Lordships will be aware, Berwick is in England—in Northumberland—but Berwick Rangers play under the jurisdiction of the Scottish Football Association and currently they are in Division 3. Is the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, able to give me what I call the “drill” for this stadium? I am sure that there have been formal or informal links with the Scottish football authorities, but which is the responsible authority under the provisions of the Bill?

Of course, as one would expect, the Bill is concerned with the structures of stadia and sports grounds, but so much reference has been made to activities and things that have happened at those grounds that I am beginning to think that the Bill is concerned not just with the grounds but with the human aspect.

I understand that Berwick’s average attendance for what I would call a normal league game is in the region of 300, 400 or 500 spectators when they play at home. However, on two or three occasions in my lifetime they have had an enormous invasion of fans from all over Scotland—perhaps even from the north of England as well—when one of the major Scottish teams has arrived to play in a Scottish Cup tie. Indeed, 1967 is for me, both professionally and in football terms, a very important year, as that was when what we called the Wee Rangers—Berwick Rangers—beat the Rangers from Ibrox in the Scottish Cup, and their name went into the history books on that occasion. Can the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, give me some guidance as to—

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie]

I thank the noble Lord for giving way. I understand his point and it is an important one but, given that Berwick Rangers are in the Scottish league and the local authority of all Scottish league clubs have to issue a safety certificate, surely Berwick Rangers already have a safety certificate issued by Northumberland County Council—a situation and relationship that will continue when the authority changes its name.

[Lord Lyell]

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, may seek to clarify the point but perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, will deal with it when he comes to reply.

I am particularly grateful to the House and to the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, for tolerating my intervention. I was very happy to spend one early morning at Everton’s ground, Goodison Park, in 1975. I spent another morning at Filbert Street, Leicester, in 1976 and received an enormous amount of instruction from the police and the safety authorities, who are going to have to implement the measures in the Bill, so ably presented by the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner.

I was particularly grateful for the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, about gangmasters. I hope that his remarks are well read at the wonderful training ground of Finch Farm, as they will go down well there. However, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, and wish his Bill every success. I conclude by apologising for not having put my glasses on, which is why I am speaking in the gap.