Supporting the Creative Economy

Lord Vaizey of Didcot Excerpts

Thursday 13th February 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mr Whittingdale]

My hon. Friend is completely right. I apologise for not mentioning Chatham, and I am sure that the fact that it was chosen for “Les Misérables” is not a reflection on her constituents. There is no question but that every part of the country benefits from that kind of international investment. We have more to look forward to: “Mission: Impossible 5” will start filming in Britain soon, as will part of the next episode of “Star Wars”.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey)]

On “Les Misérables”, I hope that my hon. Friend has noted that the stage production has brought in something north of £1 billion in revenue. At some point, he should acknowledge the important role of British theatre in our creative industries.

[Mr Whittingdale]

The Minister is entirely right. I am pleased that the Government are talking about extending the tax credit not only, as already proposed, to high-end television drama, animation and electronic games, but potentially to regional theatre, because theatre is the breeding ground for many of our greatest talents.

Still on film success, we talked to the film companies and asked why they came to make films in this country. A lot was to do with the extraordinary talent that we have here—the skills—but they also said that, without question, had the tax credit not been in place, they would not have been able to come here.

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[Angie Bray]

I can assure the hon. Lady that last night all the children playing in the orchestra had their violins and cellos with them. Obviously, there must be access to musical instruments, and in the case of Twyford, there certainly is. We need to work that out. First, we need everyone to agree that we are going to have those longer hours. We must then ensure that we make the best use of them to build the skills base.

[Mr Vaizey]

Surely my hon. Friend, in welcoming many of the Government’s initiatives, will welcome the funding of music education by the Secretary of State for Education. He ring-fenced £170 million for music education. He has also provided financial support for the national plan for cultural education.

[Angie Bray]

I certainly do. I hope that music money will be spent wisely because, as someone who studied music, I am keen to ensure that nobody loses the opportunity to build their skills base, which is important for the country.

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[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

It always seems when we debate the creative economy that it falls at a good time, because something interesting, exciting or dynamic is always happening. That is particularly true now, as we have the BAFTA film awards, where we anticipate British success, London fashion week, which has gone from strength to strength as one of the major international fashion weeks, and the BRIT awards, where British creativity and excellence is being celebrated. In the nearly four years of this Parliament, we have had many debates on the creative economy and industries. Warnings and concerns have often been raised, some of which have been legitimate and some less so, but we always have these debates in the context of increasing strength, popularity and ingenuity in the creative industries nationally, regionally and locally.

This debate has seen considerable discussion about copyright and IP, so I do not intend to dwell on them too much. Instead, I want to discuss the economic development of the creative industries and, in particular, the role of tax incentives for investment and of clustering, which was considered by the Culture, Media and Sport Committee in its report.

The bedrock of the underlying strength of the UK’s creative industries is Britain’s talent pool and unique heritage, as a recognised leading performer in music, film, drama and arts over many years. Why businesses are coming to this country and investing now has much to do with the tax regime that has been put in place. The production tax credits for film, video games and high-end television drama are bringing production to the UK, and it would not be unfair to say that those industries—in particular, film production and television production—are booming in this country. That is not only good for companies that work in that sector directly, but for the great infrastructure—the great web of businesses—that relies on that investment. The post-production, including the sound production, for a film shot at Pinewood studios would probably take place in Soho and use the talents of a great number of people in that production process, from technicians to musicians and artists, as well as actors.

[Mr Vaizey]

On that note, will my hon. Friend join me in welcoming the advent of the new Industrial Light & Magic base? ILM is the special effects house that grew out of Lucasfilm and it is setting up its UK base in Soho imminently to coincide with the imminent start of production of “Star Wars”.

[Damian Collins]

The Minister gives an excellent example of the sort of investment that the film industry and production industry are bringing to this country. Of course, as he will be aware, we anticipate success in the film awards this year for “12 Years A Slave”, which of course is a film that Britain can be proud of. It is based on a book published many years ago by Penguin. Writers involved in the film industry are an important part of the talent mix. Whether the writers of original scripts or writers who adapt books that have previously been published, they are all part of the same ecosystem.

When I worked in the adverting industry, I was always impressed that Soho could draw on the talents of such a broad base of people, which is why people from around the world come to be here. A film company seeking to make a big feature film can come to the UK and know that we have the facilities to make it and the talents to complete the job at every level. That is what makes working in the creative industry in the UK so exciting.

The development of creative centres of excellence, not only in London but around the country, is an important part of the ecology of the creative economy and its future success. We do not want our creative industries purely to be centred and located in the traditional centres of excellence in London and the south-east; we want to have a strong network of them right across the country. We can see that happening now. Particularly with the investment in Media City at Salford Quays and projects such as the Sharp Project, Manchester city council has come together with members of the business community to create a hub for creativity in that city. Such developments are helping to make Manchester the fastest growing media city, or creative city, in Europe. In Birmingham, there is an important and growing creative hub and community in Digbeth, and in Belfast, around the Titanic centre and the Titanic quarter, near the old Harland and Wolff shipyards, there is another important centre of the creative economy.

Yesterday, I attended an event focused on the creative industries in my constituency and the rest of east Kent, where we looked at the development of creative and digital clusters around the east Kent coast, particularly in Folkestone, Ramsgate and Canterbury. In my constituency of Folkestone and Hythe, we now have more than 200 businesses that can be considered as part of the creative technology economy, according to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport’s definition of that economy. It is a rapidly growing sector employing a large number of people, and that growth is only accelerating in the scope and range of the tasks that the sector is undertaking, as well as in the number of opportunities for work that exist within the sector.

One of the challenges is how we link together these different centres of excellence—these different hubs and clusters—and how we ensure that we have good links, both through broadband infrastructure and transport infrastructure, that connect the hubs in places such as east Kent to the centres of excellence in Tech City in London and elsewhere.

Sleeping Giant Media is a search engine optimisation and social media marketing campaign company based in Folkestone. A few years ago, it was started from nothing and it now employs more than 20 people. There are many reasons why such a company chooses to locate in Folkestone. The quality of life in Folkestone and the low cost of doing business there will be among them, but Folkestone is less than an hour by high-speed rail from one of the world centres of excellence in the creative economy—Tech City in London—and that is a key reason why those businesses are in Folkestone.

Businesses in Digbeth in Birmingham, working in places such as the Fazeley Studios and the Custard Factory, have a great place to do business and a great community of people to work alongside, but it is their proximity to a major global centre of excellence in London that makes it so attractive to be there.

We can have the physical infrastructure and facilities to support an expanding creative economy. The Select Committee underlines the importance of these hubs and clusters. It was right that the Committee visited silicon valley as part of its study tour, because that is a great example of a successful cluster that has given birth to a number of great companies.

It is interesting that companies such as Facebook and Google have been born out of research laboratories and facilities, not only of universities such as Stanford, but out of precursor companies in that industry, such as Hewlett-Packard and Xerox, the success of which spawned further companies. We hope that in London new businesses will come out of our creative and digital economy as it develops, in turn spawning the creation of further businesses down the line and employing yet more people.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer set out his ambition that London should be the tech hub and creative hub for Europe. We are well on the way to achieving that, if it has not already been achieved. One key aspect of making that possible is attracting businesses, investment and talent. We want to see as many people as possible born in Britain taking advantage of the opportunities to work in such a centre of excellence. We also need to ensure that we can bring in the best talent from around the world. At the moment, the industry is growing apace, but we do not currently have enough people to satisfy all the demand. Therefore, having the right policy on visas that allows the most talented people to work in the UK is a crucial issue facing development.

Another element of that development is ensuring that young people have the skills that they need and the understanding to take part in this growing sector of the economy. The importance of young people’s having the opportunity to develop their creative talents at a young age, when at school, through music and the arts has been discussed in this debate. I do not believe that the Secretary of State for Education’s focus on some core academic subjects in any way undermines that. People need good skills and qualifications in those core subjects to do almost anything that they would seek to do; that is an important part of a good education. There is no reason why creativity and artistic talent and flair cannot form part of the curriculum. Schools can do that. A longer school day will give schools many more options in pursuing that.

There are also uses for such talents in other sectors in the creative industry, particularly for young people who might want to work in the video game sector. We want a nation of young people who not only play video games, which are increasingly made in this country and exported around the world, but know how to build them. That is why bringing computer science into the science curriculum, as an equal science alongside chemistry, physics and biology, is an important step. We need more young people learning computer coding at school, so they know the building blocks of computer programming and the creativity needed to build websites, computer games and animation programmes. That should be an important part of the curriculum.

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[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Osborne, particularly as I want to make a few remarks with a Scottish dimension. It is also a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins). He emphasised the importance of the cultural and creative industries, both to the entire UK and to different parts of the country. I represent Edinburgh, and the subject is of particular interest to me, my city and my constituency; Edinburgh North and Leith can claim to be a creative hub in many ways, as many who have visited it will know.

I will not run through all the positive features of my constituency, but I would like to mention a few. There have been a number of mentions of “Grand Theft Auto”. Of course, that game comes out of the Rockstar North stable, which is currently headquartered in my constituency. It is perhaps a sign of the times that, as I understand it, it is soon to move into the building occupied at the moment by The Scotsman Publications Ltd. That is an interesting example of how the emphasis in the different sections of the creative industry is moving from older to newer technologies.

I was told just this morning of the success of an e-publishing company in my constituency, so I will take the opportunity to mention that. APS Group Scotland has just won a prestigious award in the academic category at the digital book awards 2014 in New York, ahead of several hundred fellow international entrants. That is another example of success in my constituency. Of course, my city also hosts the Edinburgh festival in all its many guises.

[Mr Vaizey]

Hear, hear!

[Mark Lazarowicz]

The Minister clearly recognises that festival as a showcase of great importance, not just to Edinburgh and Scotland, but to the UK as a whole.

The main point that I want to make is that the report is about supporting the creative economy in the United Kingdom. It is important to make that point. Colleagues from outside Scotland will understand why the possible implications of Scottish independence are on the minds of most Members from Scotland—indeed, it is also quite rightly on the minds of many Members from the rest of the UK. One argument put forward by the Scottish Government in support of independence is that the cultural and creative sectors would gain more from independence than from the status quo. The Scottish Government do support the creative economy and cultural industries in many ways—I pay tribute to that—but so did previous Scottish Governments under different political leaderships.

Local authorities also recognise the incredible importance of the sector. My local authority, the Labour-led Edinburgh council—I must be fair: it is a Labour-Scottish National party council—has been supporting the creative economy in many ways for many years. That illustrates how the very success of the sector in Scotland underlines the fact that we are better together. We can be successful because we are part of the UK; we do not need an entirely separate state to nurture such successful parts of our economy. They are important for us, but they also benefit the economy of a much wider area and allow the UK as a whole to support and draw on what we are doing in Edinburgh, and in Scotland.

Some good examples of that are highlighted in the report, such as the international activities of UK Trade & Investment, which I am sure the Minister will refer to in his closing comments. Scottish creative activity can take part in that and draw from it. There is also support at the UK level for film, which benefits Scotland directly and indirectly. There is the very fact that we in Scotland have access to the UK market. Of course, if Scotland were independent, no one is suggesting that it would not be able to export from its creative economy to the rest of the UK, but the strong foundation in a UK-wide market, in which the cultural or creative economy is a major sector, is something on which we can base our activity. That applies to other sectors as well.

We also have the BBC. It is interesting to note that that is one of many areas in which those supporting independence suggest that not much would change; the BBC would just be slightly different. They are trying to get the best of the UK while also going for independence.

That is my picture of the benefits for Scotland of being part of the UK, but there are of course areas in which there could be improvements and more could be done. Mention was made of the importance of broadband. The Minister knows that I have for some time been pressing on the issue of superfast broadband in my city of Edinburgh. It is ironic that, apparently, part of Edinburgh city centre will not be included under the arrangements for additional superfast broadband that were recently announced.

The hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe mentioned the advantages to his area from being close to high-speed rail. I will not hold the Minister and his Department responsible for High Speed 2, but I emphasise an important point: if the entire UK is to draw on the benefits of London’s role as a media centre for Europe, we need to have fast and efficient transport from the entire UK to London in as many ways as possible. That includes HS2 reaching Scotland and having direct high-speed lines at the earliest possible opportunity.

There are so many clear benefits to Scotland’s creative economy, and the rest of Scotland’s economy, being part of the UK. The Government have produced a wide range of useful papers by independent experts highlighting the benefits, for both Scotland and the rest of the UK, of Scotland’s involvement in the UK. It would be useful if the Minister’s Department were to consider something similar in the field of the creative economy. I put that challenge to him today. I ask him to think about it and to consider bringing forward such a report or study, allowing it to feed into the debate taking place in Scotland.

We have some travel difficulties at the moment from parts of the south to the north, but things are not too bad at the moment, so I hope that you will excuse me, Mrs Osborne, if I leave the debate a few minutes before the end of the sitting, if we go to full time. Having said that, I am glad that I have been able to contribute to the debate with something of a Scottish perspective on the creative economies of the entire UK.

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[Helen Goodman]

I was going to say that the demise of the regional development agency and the much reduced resources of the local enterprise partnerships have left rather a gap outside the M25. I know that in Folkestone in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, people have benefited from a philanthropist whose name escapes me—

[Mr Vaizey]

Sir Roger de Haan.

[Helen Goodman]

As ever, the Minister is there, ready to help at any moment. Of course, that philanthropy has bolstered considerably what has been going on in the constituency of the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), but we need a more structured approach from Government. I will come on to talk about geography.

[Helen Goodman]

I agree that the creative sector is one of the few sectors that is growing rapidly. I will make my points in a different order to deal with the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. Under the Labour Administration, culture was part of the regeneration programme in Liverpool, Gateshead, which was mentioned, Manchester and Salford; for example, there was the movement of the BBC. Those were big initiatives. The hon. Gentleman will be hard-pressed to find examples of such significance in the current climate. The Government do not have anything comparable to those initiatives that goes beyond the M25.

[Mr Vaizey]

Many of those initiatives were financed by the lottery, which was created by the Conservative Government who preceded the Labour Government.

[Helen Goodman]

I am sorry to disappoint the Minister, but a lot of the money was put into those initiatives by the regional development agencies. He needs to talk more to his colleagues in other Whitehall Departments, because those self-same big cities are seeing the biggest reductions in funding in their local government settlements. The reduction in Liverpool is somewhere between 30% and 60%, and the picture is similar in Gateshead and Manchester. He should be less complacent about the situation faced by the creative sectors beyond London. He cannot get away from giving the impression that the Government are not developing creative industries across the entire country because they are staying within their comfort zone.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey)]

I am pleased to have the chance to reply to this stimulating debate. It has been extremely wide-ranging, covering copyright, education, Scottish independence and the future of HS2—all four of which I am not formally responsible for, but I will try to address the points that were raised.

I particularly enjoyed the speech of the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson). It included extensive plugs for her son—I would have done the same thing—and his future career in the video games industry. Short of reading his CV into the record, I do not think she could have done more to bring the industry’s attention to the budding talents of Hodgson Junior, as I assume he is called.

The hon. Lady was followed by my hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams)—[Interruption.] He is over here now—he is the acting parliamentary private secretary; he was promoted in the middle of this debate. He refrained from mentioning the success and talents of his son, Ben Adams, in the soon-to-be-world-famous British band Summer City. I regretted that he did not mention it, because then we could have had a contest to decide in the course of this debate whether the offspring of Labour MPs are more creative than the offspring of Conservative MPs. I was particularly pleased to open a copy of my local newspaper to find that the son of my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell)—Conservative—has won the first scholarship from Sky Arts and been picked out by Quincy Jones as one of the most talented drummers he had ever seen. Let it not be said that MPs from all parties are not making their own direct contributions to the success of the creative industries.

It is a good thing that all of us who have spoken in this debate can point to the success of the creative industries. In the spirit of ecumenicalism that often surrounds such debates, I point out that the creative industries were identified by the former Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, Lord Smith of Finsbury, who has managed to make an impact on other areas of public policy since then. That was the process by which the UK’s creative industries were put on the map. The process of identifying a rather disparate sector as a coherent whole has been followed by many other countries. Because of it, we can identify the success of the creative industries: more than 1.5 million jobs, over 5% of UK jobs; growth of 8.6% since 2011; a contribution of £70 billion to the UK economy.

This Government have built on the achievements of previous Governments in supporting the creative industries. I was particularly pleased that we have built on the success of the film tax credit, which now brings in roughly £1 billion annually of inward investment in the UK, with the introduction of a television tax credit for high-end drama and a tax credit for animation, which was responsible, incidentally, for more than £200 million in inward investment in its first year. To answer the first question posed, we are expecting an announcement shortly from the European Commission on the video games tax credit. I have been in discussions with the Commission for a time. It has a job to do, and the Government, particularly the Conservatives, recognise the importance of policing state aid and unfair and anti-competitive Government subsidies to industries. It is important that the Commission is convinced that a tax credit is the right thing to do, but we have made great progress and we expect an announcement shortly.

As well as the tax credit support—I was delighted when the Chancellor extended the film tax credit; it is particularly important to support the visual effects industry, in which the UK is among the leaders in the sector—there are other forms of support. I hear what the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) asked about whether the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has designated the creative industries as a priority sector. We are certainly the first Government to set up a sector council for the creative industries; we now have a Creative Industries Council, which is co-chaired by the Secretaries of State for Business, Innovation and Skills and for Culture, Media and Sport alongside Nicola Mendelsohn, the chief executive of Facebook in Europe.

Alongside that council, which considers a range of issues including access to finance, skills and exports, we have set up Creative England, which is designed to support the creative industries outside London. We take that support seriously. To respond to what my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) said, it has received significant support from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills in terms of money from the regional growth fund.

There is also Tech City, which acts as a beacon to show this country’s support for the technology industry. It is important to recognise that Joanna Shields, the chairman of Tech City, has made it an imperative to reach out to all the other clusters across the UK, to bring them together as a coherent whole and to ensure that other parts of the UK also benefit from that extraordinary growth. I have written to the chairmen and chief executives of local enterprise partnerships—many of them already recognise this—to remind them of the importance of the creative industries when setting out their strategies. Some of the city deals, particularly the one in Brighton, have put the creative industries centre stage. With Tim Davie from BBC Worldwide, I co-chair UK Trade & Investment’s sector advisory group, which works to help the export of our successful creative industries and to attract inward investment. There is a hugely successful story to tell about Government support for the creative industries and about the ongoing activity to support the industries.

It is also important to stress that we should include the Arts Council in the mix. The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland talked earlier about the need to support people in employment. The Arts Council has set up a £15 million fund to fund apprenticeships in the creative industries, in addition to the £37 million creative people and places fund to help fund the arts in areas where they have previously been under-represented. The agenda is wide, but there is a huge range of activity to support that agenda.

I pay tribute to the fantastic Chairman of the Select Committee. He rules the Committee with an iron fist and directs it towards all the pertinent issues of the day. He has, as usual, produced a perspicacious and incisive report that focuses in particular on concerns about the changes to the copyright regime. As the Minister with responsibility for the creative industries, I understand the concern of many in the creative industries about copyright enforcement. I have tried to bring together the different sides of the debate—the rights holders, the internet service providers and the search engines. We take a wide range of action. Let us not forget that existing law has been used effectively by rights holders to seek and obtain injunctions against some of the biggest sites that exist for the sole purpose of distributing infringing material. We also work with City of London police and credit card companies to take down payment sites, and we have one of the most advanced systems, if not the most advanced system, working with the advertising industry to ensure that advertising is not present on many of those websites.

We take a wide range of action, but my response to the Select Committee, which seems to have got a resounding B+ from hon. Members here today—[Interruption.] I might be being optimistic. We want Google to do more, and we will continue to press it to do so.

[Paul Farrelly]

It is a Select Committee, so the B+ is cross-party.

[Mr Vaizey]

I am grateful for that clarification. My excellent officials have provided me with answers to most of the questions that have been posed in this debate. I feel like I should recreate the famous Bob Dylan video when I read them out, but I will address some of the excellent points that have been raised.

Copyright reform began with the Hargreaves review, which has been extensively consulted upon. Many views have been taken into account, and it is important to get the balance right. The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) knows that I am going to say that we believe that the private copying exception is the narrowest exception in Europe, so we do not think a levy is appropriate. I shall write to her as she invited me to, setting out in great detail why I think that.

[Helen Goodman]

When the Minister writes to my hon. Friend, will he copy me in?

[Mr Vaizey]

I shall certainly copy in the hon. Lady.

[Mr Whittingdale]

And, indeed, everyone.

[Mr Vaizey]

I will certainly copy the hon. Lady and the Chairman of the Select Committee into my reply.

Danish law allows sharing within a household; Polish law apparently allows sharing within social circles—so there are much wider exceptions in Europe, and we have been careful to draw ours as narrowly as possible.

My hon. Friend the Select Committee Chairman asked about the future funding of the Police Intellectual Property Crime Unit. The Intellectual Property Office funded the set-up costs and the initial period of operation, but I understand that the baton will pass to industry, and that has always been made clear. If the work is worth doing, the industry should support it. I am interested in the PRS proposal on traffic lights. We reached out to some of the relevant intermediaries but without success, but if PRS still believes that we could pursue that system, it is worth revisiting.

As to increasing the sentences for online copyright infringement, I understand that the Minister with responsibility for intellectual property said that it was worth looking into that, and we also said so in our response. Further, the Science Minister, who responded on Second Reading in the Commons, said that we would report our findings by the end of the year. We support industry initiatives to educate people about the complexities of copyright, and are in active discussions with the industry about how the Government can support more education initiatives.

Perhaps that is the appropriate moment for me to pick up the point that the Select Committee Chairman made about the VCAP proposals. It has been difficult to implement the details of the Digital Economy Act 2010. The Government have not resiled from it, but there are significant technical obstacles, including the fact that we were being sued by BT and TalkTalk for at least two years from the time when it was passed. Other technical obstacles have presented themselves, and we are actively seeking to overcome them, but nevertheless we welcome the industry initiative, not only because we hope it may be up and running before the end of the year, but because it requires a partnership between both sides of the debate, and because it brings important flexibility to make it possible to adapt. I suspect that it will be easier to adapt the system as technology changes.

The Select Committee’s position and that of many hon. Members who rightly act as strong advocates for the creative industries and rights holders is well known. The Government’s position is also well established, and there has been an extensive dialogue. I hear what has been said about the need for separate statutory instruments when the exceptions are debated, and I am sure that the Department responsible will listen carefully to that recommendation.

Another all-pervasive issue is the position of the arts in education. Hon. Members will know that I sought out the job as culture spokesman in opposition and was lucky enough to be appointed Minister when we came into office. I passionately support the arts and would be concerned if I thought that some of what people allege about the state of the arts in schools was genuine. The Secretary of State for Education is a fantastic supporter of the arts. I have no doubt about that, and I work closely with him, as I have done for several years. One of the first things that we did was jointly to commission Darren Henley to look at music education, to secure the ring-fenced funding of music education services at a time when most funding was being devolved to schools, and when schools were becoming academies, as they still are. I felt that it was important to take that strong position.

We want music services to change, which is why we re-christened them music hubs. Obviously, more has to be done than simply change the name. We want music organisations—orchestras, and so on—to be genuine partners with local authority music services and for music services to be able to call on the talents of a wide range of people who deliver music in different ways in any local area. That is why we introduced the qualified music educator status, to allow people who teach music but are not formally teachers to be recognised for their talents and skills. And that is why we extended the In Harmony programme, increased its funding and integrated it into a wider national music plan.

We are at the beginning of this journey. Nobody is expecting music hubs to spring fully formed from this policy change. We have achieved two important things: we have ring-fenced the money and established the principle that music organisations and music services should be partners. A third important principle is that the money is contestable; no one local music service or local authority should be complacent—a word that has been used in this debate in other contexts—and simply expect to receive that money every three years.

[Angie Bray]

My hon. Friend the Minister will recall launching the Ealing music and film festival this time last year. As I said earlier, on our first night of the festival, last night, the English chamber orchestra was partnering young musicians from Twyford school. Tonight it will be partnering young musicians from Ealing youth orchestra. Does he agree that it is good for young people that such an initiative can be promoted even by a festival?

[Mr Vaizey]

I do think it is a good thing for young people. That is absolutely brilliant. Again, we tend always to look at what we say is going wrong and not good enough and often fail to recognise what is right in front of us, which is that tens of thousands of our young people are brilliant musicians enjoying a brilliant music education. Funnily enough, I was lucky to visit Twyford school with Howard Goodall several years ago and watch its choir in action. It is a phenomenal state school—I emphasise that—with phenomenal music teaching. I recognise what my hon. Friend says.

That is where we are in terms of music education. But we went further and introduced the first national cultural education plan, which, again, has put on the table heritage schools. English Heritage is now working with schools to ensure that heritage is taught in our schools. There are many other initiatives to ensure that our children enjoy as wide a cultural education as possible.

Clearly, the Secretary of State for Education has his own agenda in terms of ensuring, rightly, that we continue to drive up standards in our schools. He is utterly passionate about education and about not leaving behind too many children who, in the past, for whatever reason, have been written off, as have their life chances. He has determined to introduce rigour into the curriculum. The Department for Education has listened to concerns that have been enunciated. We now have the new progress 8 system, which allows schools to take into account the arts and arts education.

There is an either/or element when we debate the arts in education. No one has made teaching the arts illegal in schools. The Secretary of State is also about empowering our teachers and head teachers to lead their schools. A good head teacher and a great teaching staff will recognise the importance of the arts and the fantastic bonus that great arts teaching brings, not just in introducing children to the arts, but enhancing their academic achievement in many other subjects.

[Mrs Hodgson]

Nobody doubts that the Secretary of State cares about all this. We are not saying that it is a competition or a matter of either/or. The fact is that there are unintended consequences to the baccalaureate. The number of art teachers being trained has dropped by 14%. The discount codes are deterring young people from taking more than one GCSE in arts subjects. This has to be looked at. The reality is there in black and white in the figures. Will the Minister say something about the proposal in the report for STEM to become STEAM and whether the Government will take that on board?

[Mr Vaizey]

The hon. Lady mentioned discount codes. The Government recognise the differences between artistic disciplines, and it is important to get it across that decisions on discount codes are made on the basis of a detailed scrutiny of the exam specifications, rather than on a general view of the subjects concerned. Where substantial overlap between two specifications exists, the subjects will be discounted. Those decisions can be reviewed and are being reviewed in the case of drama and dance. I emphasise again the Department for Education’s continued support for music and dance schemes, which equates to some £18 million-worth of bursaries over the next three years, which is a huge amount of support. The Department has also listened to concerns about the EBacc and that is why we now have the new progress 8 measure, which allows schools to have their teaching of arts subjects taken into account when measuring their progress and success.

We have had a lively and well-balanced debate with contributions from both sides of the House and from hon. Members who are passionate advocates and supporters of the creative industries, even when not taking part in this debate.

[Helen Goodman]

Before the Minister sits down, my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz) asked whether he would look at the potential implications of Scottish independence on the cultural industries. It was a good suggestion, and I would be happy to co-operate with the Minister if he takes it forward.

[Mr Vaizey]

I hesitate to commit my Secretary of State or the Government to such a report, but given today’s important speech by the Chancellor about the future of currency in Scotland and the Prime Minister’s important speech about Scottish independence just under a week ago, I am sure that an opportunity will present itself between now and the vote for the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to highlight the effect that independence could have on the creative industries.

[Paul Farrelly]

rose—

[Mr Vaizey]

I now give way to the hon. Gentleman not from Stoke.

[Paul Farrelly]

It is almost a Stoke point. Before the Minister concludes, I want to take him back to the beginning and point out an anomaly that was discovered in the definitions and statistics—although I am not going to argue for the inclusion of ceramics in the statistics, which is a Stoke argument. When examining the statistics, we found that, of the £36 billion, £20 billion was attributed to the so-called fashion industry, so I asked the Chairman of the Committee why we were discussing music and film, but not clothes. It seems that the £20 billion attributed to the fashion industries includes pretty much everything that goes by the name of clothing on the high street, so the Minister may want to consider the statistics and how they are gathered and measured.

[Mr Vaizey]

I do not know why the Chairman of the Select Committee would not want to talk about fashion. I would have thought that it was his top subject. As my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe said, London fashion week begins tomorrow, and I know for a fact that the British Fashion Council would welcome the Chairman of the Committee at any of its events over the next five days.

[Mark Lazarowicz]

rose—

[Mr Vaizey]

I see that the hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith is keen to come in, but I must say that it is interesting that every element of the creative industries will publish reports about their value to the economy. I think that the British Fashion Council engaged Oxford Economics to make the serious point that the high-end, luxury fashion of the catwalk, which seems somewhat removed from our daily existence, sits at the apex or epicentre of a wide industry that includes photography, hairdressing, make-up and a whole range of things. Those are not official statistics, however. They come from a report produced by the British Fashion Council.

[Mark Lazarowicz]

To be clear, I was thinking of something more along the line of highlighting the positive advantages for the creative industries if Scotland remains in the UK. Instead of emphasising the negatives of independence, I would like to see something that highlights the positive advantages that are so clear to so many of us.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Vaizey]

I will happily do that. I have regular meetings with the Scottish Culture Minister, Fiona Hyslop, and know about the astonishing success of the creative industries in Scotland, the Edinburgh international festival being not just the oldest, but the largest arts festival of its kind. I am looking forward this year to the second summit of culture Ministers that will take place around the Edinburgh international festival. There is a lot to celebrate in the creative success of Scotland, and of the UK where Scotland and the rest of the UK are better together, as the hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith pointed out in his brilliant comments.

This has been a wide-ranging debate covering a wide range of issues, but at its heart sits a truth now universally acknowledged. I say that in the full knowledge that I will be going to Jane Austen’s house this evening after this debate to celebrate the keeping of her ring in the UK. I know that keeping cultural objects in this country is close to the heart of the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland. A truth that must be universally acknowledged is that Britain is fantastically successful in the creative industries, including television, film, animation, games, fashion, architecture, craft, the visual arts and the performing arts. We attract massive inward investment for the arts and we are known around the world for them.

The Government will continue to support the creative industries directly through tax credits and indirectly through policy changes and in our support for growth in the economy. If there is one thing I would like to see, it is more recognition in this country for our astonishing success and our global prominence thanks to our creative industries.