BBC Funding (CSR)

Lord Vaizey of Didcot Excerpts

Wednesday 10th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey)]

I am grateful for the chance to respond to this important debate. I congratulate the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) on securing it and on making such an eloquent speech setting out his views and support for the BBC, as well as his concerns for its future.

I thank the hon. Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones) and my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) for their excellent contributions, with the hon. Member for Hyndburn focusing on the importance and value to him of the BBC World Service, and my hon. Friend bringing to bear her experience as an insider who has worked in the organisation. I was pleased to hear from a former BBC employee about her confidence in the BBC’s ability to continue to move forward on the basis of the superb licence fee settlement.

[Anas Sarwar]

The Minister speaks of a superb settlement. The BBC is one of the largest employers in my constituency in Glasgow. Does he accept that as a result of the decisions taken in the comprehensive spending review, there will be job losses in the city of Glasgow?

[Mr Vaizey]

The BBC has already significantly slimmed down. Job losses or future jobs will be a matter for it. The debate has been suitably non-partisan. I hate to bring it down a level or two, but I am always pleased to hear from Opposition Members about their conversion to supporters of the BBC. For those of us who remember the previous Government hounding out the BBC’s chairman and director-general over the David Kelly and Andrew Gilligan affair, such conversions always ring ever so slightly hollow. That was the greatest crisis of BBC independence in living memory, so it is worth remembering that it is not always bad news with the Conservatives. Other Governments have behaved very badly indeed towards the BBC, in my view.

However, I want to put on the record this Government’s strong support for the BBC—a complete commitment to the independence of the corporation, which, as the hon. Member for Edinburgh South said, has formed the cornerstone not only of public service broadcasting in this country, but of the success of our creative industries. I never tire of pointing out that many of our successful independent production companies and, indeed, other companies in the creative industries are often filled with people who received their training from the BBC.

The BBC is not set in aspic; it remains a dynamic and forward-looking organisation. Not only is it one of the most respected broadcasters in the world, but it continues to innovate with the BBC iPlayer; YouView, a consortium in which the corporation is the cornerstone partner; BBC Worldwide, which has taken the BBC all around the globe; and even the pioneering archive and digital archive work being taken forward by Tony Ageh, which we all admire. We also fully respect, of course, the BBC’s editorial and operational independence.

[Graham Jones]

Does the Minister approve of BBC World Service television and its commercial success? Does he think that it should be expanded as a business, or that the service should be reduced because it is not what the BBC is about?

[Mr Vaizey]

BBC Worldwide, which has a superb chief executive in John Smith, who really has transformed that organisation, occasionally causes controversy in the House. Its business is to maximise the value of the BBC’s assets, and it does so very well, but we in the House and individual politicians take views, such as on the purchase of Lonely Planet, and, as I shall say at the end of my speech, the BBC Trust has made it clear that it wants the BBC to divest itself of its magazine business, because it is very important that it leaves room for commercial operators to make a living in the media. One of the great ironies is that the BBC is so successful that it can often easily squash its competition.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

rose—

[Graham Jones]

rose—

[Mr Vaizey]

I shall take an intervention from my hon. Friend, who has not yet spoken.

[Charlie Elphicke]

We have heard much about the excellence of the BBC, but does my hon. Friend agree that we should also pay tribute to the excellence of ITV and of BSkyB? They have outstandingly good output, too, and it is important to ensure that the BBC’s state subsidy does not crowd them out.

[Mr Vaizey]

I absolutely accept my hon. Friend’s point, and I congratulate him on his excellent work to try to secure the future of Dover port, working with Dame Vera Lynn, who broadcast her great songs that lifted the morale of British troops during the second world war via the BBC. I also pay tribute to the many successful media companies that operate in the United Kingdom.

The hon. Member for Edinburgh South was concerned about the speed of our negotiations. I was slightly surprised by that, because I read in his biography that he used to work for an organisation called 100mph Events. I thought that he was a man who felt the need for speed, but now he wants to be in the slow lane. A year-long negotiation of the licence fee would have taken the BBC’s eye off the ball in respect of running a successful media organisation, and there would have been a year of sniping from the BBC’s competitors, with people calling into question the licence fee and so on.

[Graham Jones]

The Minister and other Government Members have mentioned crowding out, but is it not the case that The Times and The Sunday Times have a paid-for service that is beginning to wipe its face? If the BBC were impinging on the profits of the online print industry, would The Times and The Sunday Times be able to wipe their face with that paid-for service? It seems to be quite successful, and there does not seem to be any evidence of crowding out. Does he accept that point?

[Mr Vaizey]

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman talks to those at The Guardian, as it is they who usually complain about the BBC crowding them out. The Guardian website remains free, and they claim that one of the difficulties they are finding with monetising its website is the presence of the BBC.

The agreed settlement that we reached with the BBC is a good deal for all parties that reflects the current economic environment. Most importantly, of course, it is an excellent deal for licence fee payers, delivering a freeze in cash terms in the £145.50 colour licence fee for the next six years. I was interested to hear the hon. Member for Livingston (Graeme Morrice) suggest that many of his constituents are writing in, wanting to pay more for the licence fee. I am not sure that that view is held nationwide.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

I am concerned that a freeze for four years in fact represents a year-on-year cut, particularly when inflation is predicted to rise much higher than was expected, and with VAT increases coming in as well. Does the Minister agree that more than the initial cuts will need to be made because of the budget restrictions, but we will then face year-on-year cuts in the BBC that reduce its services and its ability to be the wonderful broadcaster that it currently is?

[Mr Vaizey]

As I say, the BBC will have to find savings; I shall come to that in a moment. It is important for Labour Members to make their position clear. If they think that the BBC licence fee should be increased, they should say so, and they should state the level at which they think it should be set.

The current licence fee settlement remains at £145.50. It is important to remember that for the first year this was volunteered by the BBC and the BBC Trust, and it was likely to be volunteered for the second year, and then we negotiated a freeze for the four years after that until March 2017. Within that settlement, as the hon. Member for Edinburgh South pointed out, the BBC has agreed to play an active role in supporting new local television services through a partnership fund providing capital costs of up to a total of £25 million in 2013-14 for up to 20 local TV services—city TV stations to provide truly local content rather than the regional content people have at the moment. The BBC will also commit to ongoing funding of up to £5 million per year from 2014-15 to acquire content for use on its own services from these new services. Should capital costs be required earlier, this will be facilitated by access to the existing digital switchover underspend by mutual agreement.

[Robert Halfon]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this is not just about the level of the licence fee but the fact that licence fee payers have no real say over what goes on in the BBC, whether it is salaries, the make-up of the BBC Trust, or the number of stations? The answer, surely, is to democratise the licence fee by giving licence fee payers a vote.

[Mr Vaizey]

My hon. Friend is a pioneer in this House. He is already proposing and taking forward an internet bill of rights, which has enlivened the blogosphere, and he has radical proposals for the democratisation of the BBC. Given his campaigning record, I will leave him to take those forward.

The BBC World Service will now become part of the licence fee-funded BBC from 2014-15, but the BBC will remain independent in all matters concerning the content of World Service output as regards times and the manner in which it is supplied and the management of its affairs. The BBC’s editorial guidelines, values and standards will be set by the BBC Trust and will continue to apply to the BBC World Service. The BBC will continue, as now, to set the objectives, priorities and targets for the BBC World Service with the Foreign Secretary, and will obtain written approval from the Foreign Secretary for the opening or closure of any language service. The BBC will also assume responsibility for funding BBC Monitoring from 2013-14.

The hon. Gentleman asked about S4C. The BBC has undertaken to provide the majority of funding to the Welsh language service, S4C, from April 2013. We in the Government remain absolutely committed to a strong and independent Welsh language TV service, which was of course set up under the last Conservative Government.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Opposition Members are arguing for an increase in the licence fee. [Interruption.] They are as far as I can tell—they say that they have received representations to that effect. In my experience a lot of older people, particularly those who get by on their pensions, have trouble affording the current licence fee. Can anything more be done to help people in that position, and should the BBC take a greater role in funding such help?

[Mr Vaizey]

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point in his forensic intervention, which secured an immediate U-turn from Opposition Members on a licence fee increase. Perhaps he and I should talk later about what further help can be given to the elderly, but I would say that freezing the licence free is substantial recognition of people’s difficulty in paying it.

The Government have put forward a new partnership model between the BBC Trust and S4C as the best way of securing the latter’s future. Under that model, funding for S4C will come from three sources in future: the licence fee, a continued subvention from the Government and commercial income. The BBC will contribute £76.3 million to S4C in 2013-14 and £76 million in 2014-15. The Government will contribute £6.7 million and £7 million respectively. The service will be operated by a joint management board, with a majority of independent directors appointed by the BBC Trust.

I am aware that I am running out of time, but I wish briefly to mention broadband. The current ring-fenced funding for digital switchover of approximately £133 million per annum will be raised to, and capped at, £150 million per annum to fund broadband. It is important to say that the switchover money was never part of the licence fee funding for the BBC, so in effect the £150 million a year broadband money simply continues an arrangement made under the last Government whereby part of the licence fee is used for what could broadly be called “digital switchover”. When one talks about the BBC taking on £344 million of extra liabilities, one is really talking about only £200 million.

[Graeme Morrice]

The point that I was trying to make earlier was that I and other Members have received numerous representations from constituents expressing concern about the freezing of the licence fee for the next four years, because in effect it will mean a real-terms cut. People are concerned about a reduction in the quality of the service. The hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) made a point about democratisation. What consultation has there been with the licence fee payer about that real-terms cut?

[Mr Vaizey]

As I have said, we felt that there was a meeting of minds between us and the BBC, and that it was best to get on with it rather than detain the BBC for a year in negotiating the licence fee.

We welcome the BBC’s plans to enhance its national DAB coverage, although we remain in discussions with it about its obligations as regards local DAB. I hope that we can take forward developments on local DAB coverage with the BBC and the commercial radio sector.

Outside the formal licence fee agreement, the BBC has also made assurances to the Government about the scale and scope of its future activities in three areas. First, the BBC Trust has assured us that it considers it desirable to dispose substantially of BBC Worldwide’s magazine business. Secondly, the trust recognises the principle that the BBC should not launch services that are more local than its current offerings on radio, the web and television, to give our local newspapers a chance to survive and thrive. Thirdly, it has assured the Government that it will pursue a 25% reduction in the budget of BBC Online, which will please The Guardian. I hope that those assurances from the BBC will be viewed in a positive light by those who have expressed concerns about its income—sorry, impact—on the market. That was a Freudian slip.

I end by reiterating the Government’s full commitment to the BBC’s independence. We regard it as a fantastic organisation and a beacon of excellence in Britain. I thank the hon. Member for Edinburgh South for securing the debate. In my opening remarks, I forgot to thank him especially for one of the reasons he will now remain my favourite Labour MP—during his speech, he promoted me from Under-Secretary to Secretary of State. For that I will always remain grateful.

Question put and agreed to.