European Union: Justice and Home Affairs

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Thursday 8th May 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, my contribution to this debate will be more generic. Perhaps I ought to warn the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, that I will probably be quite brief and he will have plenty of time to put his questions.

This has come about through the Lisbon treaty and the changes that took place there. I, for one, really welcome what the Lisbon treaty did in two areas of this subject. First, we got rid of the pillar system of the European Union, which someone like me who understands Europe to a reasonable degree found totally complicated. We started to make Europe more understandable to the political elite in individual member states; I doubt that it has got down to citizens yet, but at least it has simplified that process. Secondly, it meant that, by getting rid of the justice and home affairs pillars, those areas came into normal legislative procedure, which meant that we have at least an increased level of transparency of legislation and discussion in the European Parliament—the Council of Ministers was not exactly great at transparency. Clearly there are arguments in the opposite direction about national vetoes, but that move in transparency and public understanding of how the EU works, and simplification rather than complication, was extremely good.

Of course, we are already generally opted out of Schengen, although we opt in to certain of its provisions. It seems slightly ironic that while our tourist and business sectors are getting het up about the Chinese being able to visit us, we have independently gone down the road of effectively starting to recognise Schengen visas, with some additional help. That is positive and important for the UK economy, but there are some moves in the opposite direction. Of course, we are not part of the eurozone, either. Other states opt out of various areas as well. The Irish Republic has opted out of some of these areas or has the ability to opt in. Denmark has opted out of the common defence and security policy.

My general point is that when we talk about British membership of the European Union, there is a great barrier to our taking the leading role that we normally do in most areas, particularly in justice and home affairs, when we seem semi-detached from a lot of what the European Union is doing. I therefore generally regret that we go through these procedures of opting out and opting in, marginalising ourselves to some degree—although all British Governments have managed to keep their profile high and be persuasive within European Councils. However, this whole area of opting in and out is not good for the general national interest. I regret that as we start, in certain parts of the House at least, to talk about amending treaties and perhaps becoming an even more marginal member of the European Union, when we should be taking and keeping our rightful place as a leader of change and in the work with our European partners to be a leader within the European Union.

I particularly want to make a couple of points on how important justice and home affairs are. Certain parts of the other place are quite vociferously against the European arrest warrant. I agree absolutely with the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, that we need to make sure that there is no gap there. Clearly, that would be a charter for criminals and more than a slap in the face for victims. It is one of the most important areas as regards citizens’ involvement and benefit from the European Union and being assured that victims of crime are able to bring the perpetrators of those crimes to justice across borders within the European Union. That is absolutely fundamental to community interest.

All the way through the Government have said, “We will decide each of these issues on national interest”, and I never see that questioned. Clearly, none of us can disagree with that, but I will be very interested to hear from the Minister how we define national interest in those areas. Does it refer to the national interest of our criminals, our victims, or more relevantly, old people or young people, the business community, consumers, rural or urban areas? The term “national interest” can be used very easily as a way of explaining why we do or do not do things as regards opt-ins, opt-outs and other areas of EU policy. That route is too easy and is too much of a cliché in the way it is used. We have a very diverse community in the United Kingdom, and what is good for one part is not necessarily good for another. I will be interested to hear the Minister’s reflections on that area.

However, the most important thing is that these discussions are concluded quickly and effectively. We are where we are, but the United Kingdom needs to remain a committed, leading and important member and a great benefit to the European Union and the broader European community as a result of our commitment to making Europe work.