Israel and Gaza

Debate between Lord Swire and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 19th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am mindful that the noble Baroness’s friend in the other place has family in the Holy Family church in Gaza. We are very keen to make sure that we are supporting both getting aid to people like that but also to make sure that we are holding Israel to the very clear statement of President Herzog, who said that:

“The State of Israel and the IDF continue to act in a humanitarian manner and in accordance with international law”.


The eyes of the world are on this. We were all appalled by what happened on 7 October; Many Members of this House have seen the footage of those terrible attacks, and absolutely accept the right of Israel to defend itself. But we want to get aid in and make sure that Israel is operating in accordance with humanitarian law. The sustainable ceasefire that we are talking about, which my colleague the Foreign Secretary and his opposite number in Germany have put together, is about stopping the launching of rockets, releasing the hostages, and moving to that key two-state solution. That is what “sustainable” means in this context.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a past chairman of the Conservative Middle East Council, and ask my noble friend for clarification. The Permanent Representative to the UN, Dame Barbara Woodward, suggested that the reason the UK abstained at the recent vote in New York was because the Motion did not condemn Hamas. Can the Minister be very clear—had it condemned Hamas, would the United Kingdom have actually voted for the resolution? Secondly, when you have the spokesman for the Israeli Government, the Ambassador to the UK, Tzipi Hotovely, ruling out ever having a two-state solution, do we not need to finally admit that the two-state solution is over, and we need to be a little more creative and forward-leaning in working out where we go from here?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I hope that we are being as creative, forward-leaning and dextrous in our diplomacy. Our permanent representative to the UN is working on the text which, we believe, must make some reference to the atrocity of 7 October but also—it is possible to hold two thoughts in our head at the same time—we want to make sure that aid is getting in and that we have a political solution. We know that this conflict cannot continue, and certainly not in its current form, and we want to see an end to it.

Environmental Improvement Plan 2023

Debate between Lord Swire and Lord Benyon

Monday 6th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I refute the idea from the noble Duke that this is not ambitious. I urge him to read all 250 to 300 pages of the document and see the lengths that it goes to to put our natural environment first in a way that we have not done for decades. This really is a moment when we can do this. The noble Duke will remember from the debate on the Environment Act that a crucial part of it says that the targets we have must be achievable. The Secretary of State of the day must believe that they are possible. To an extent, we cannot do more than what the scientists say is achievable and we have set out how we can do this.

On the data on leakage, I assure the noble Duke that it is not just this target that is pushing that goal. We are giving direction and encouragement to Ofwat and our water companies to invest more in preventing leakage. Of course, it is not a single line going to 2050; there will be a dramatic increase in improvements from the investment we are putting in—in the easier-to-target areas first. We will then see that target of 2050 being met, we hope, before that date.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

Will the Minister commit to providing continuing assistance to South West Water? In the south-west, we have a disproportionate amount of the country’s beaches and there has been support from the Government in the past. Will they continue that support?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I was the Minister responsible for delivering on the coalition Government’s clear commitment to reduce bills for water charge payers in the south-west because of the extra effort they had to make to protect their bathing waters and waterways. I do not know what plans there are for the future but it has certainly been extremely successful, particularly for those on low incomes. We still have measures to provide for those who are very challenged economically, so that they can have a social tariff. We will continue to work with South West Water and all MPs in that area, who are lobbying hard on this issue.