Education Bill

Lord Skelmersdale Excerpts

Wednesday 14th September 2011 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Skelmersdale)]

My Lords, I understand that the Grand Committee was debating Amendment 124B and that the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, was in full flow when she was interrupted. May she continue.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

Thank you. I will recap my first point. I thank all noble Lords who contributed to the debate and would emphasise that the Minister cannot have it both ways. He cannot say that there is a grand new model out there based on the independent sector that we are going to embrace, but on the other hand say that this is something that will happen only on the margins on a few occasions. The problem with primary legislation is that it enables far more than just a few individuals around the edges: it enables a whole coach and horses to be pushed through if you set the ball rolling. I realise that I have just used a number of clichés one after the other. I apologise for that, but I am sure that noble Lords got the gist of what I meant.

My second point is: are we going to tell parents who opt to send their children to a free school that this is part of an experiment, of which we do not know the outcome, and that it is not in any way evidence-based? Another thing that the noble Lord did not give me was any evidence as to why this could be justified. Will we admit to parents that we do not know the impact of letting untrained teachers loose on their children, but say that it will be a very useful experiment and that, at the end of their child’s education, which may have been the worse for it, we will assess the experiment and decide whether to carry on with it? Parents should be told if that is the case, rather than let them assume, as most parents would, that if their child goes to any form of maintained school they would be in the capable hands of a qualified teacher.

My third point is that the noble Lord talked about there already being protections in the legislation for vulnerable pupils. One issue that we have explored in debates on previous issues is that often vulnerable children, children with special educational needs and those with behavioural problems go undetected. A qualified teacher has the training and experience to be able, as best they can, to identify the children whose special needs might otherwise not be identified and properly addressed. It is not good enough to say that vulnerable children are protected anyway, because it is difficult to quantify how they are categorised.

Finally, the noble Lord did not address the crucial issue of the morale of teaching staff. We are saying to them: “Of course we value you and of course you are important members of society, but people who have not gone through the training and qualification process that you have will come and work alongside you, will be paid the same and will have the same status”. That sends a very poor signal to teachers who are feeling very unloved at the moment. It would be very simple for the Government to send a signal that they recognise their professionalism, qualifications and rigour and do not feel that the sector’s professionalism should be watered down. I am not convinced by what the noble Lord says, so we will return to the issue on Report. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

Clause 55 : Academies: consultation on conversion

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

I now call Amendment 126ZZA.

[Baroness Hughes of Stretford]

With respect, did the Deputy Chairman call Amendment 126ZZA?

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

Yes, Amendment 126ZZA to Clause 55.

[Baroness Hughes of Stretford]

That is the first amendment in what is not the next group of amendments but the group after that, according to the draft groupings. Is that not right?

[Lord Skelmersdale]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, has just withdrawn Amendment 126 to Clause 54. We now move on to Clause 55, which starts with Amendment 126ZZA.

[Baroness Hughes of Stretford]

I beg the Committee’s pardon. I was working to earlier groupings and wondered why they were listed in that way. I obviously did not check my computer at the last minute.

Amendment 126ZZA