House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL]

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 7th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Adonis]

My Lords, I have been in the Labour Party for 24 years and I have voted against the Whip less often than my noble friend has in recent Divisions on European Union legislation. I do not take any lectures from my noble friend about party loyalty. He said to me earlier that he thought I was sitting in the wrong place in the House because I supported Labour Party policy. My noble friend appears to support an extreme version of the Conservative Party’s policy, which is for a nominated House in perpetuity. Maybe he would wish to cross the Floor. Let us keep this debate in proportion. We are talking about very specific amendments—I am drawing my remarks to a conclusion—to very minor legislation, but which would have a very major impact: it would entrench in perpetuity a nominated House, whereas the right reform is not to tinker with second-order issues of this kind but to engage in a proper democratic reform of the House of Lords, which happens to be the policy of the party which my noble friend Lord Grocott and I support.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

If my noble friend will allow me, what it would entrench in perpetuity is the sovereignty and superiority of the elected House of Commons, because that will get undermined the minute this place starts getting elected. It is as simple as that.

[Lord Adonis]

I completely respect my noble friend’s point of view but it is not the policy of the Labour Party.

[Lord Rooker]

I do not care about that.

[Lord Adonis]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Rooker may not care and my noble friend Lord Grocott may say that he has complete licence to disagree with the party’s policy. I respect that but it is not the policy of the party, which is for a democratically elected House. Anything else is a departure from that policy. I respect it but it cannot claim any moral or political virtue at all.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Erroll]

My Lords, I rise to support this amendment because it introduces the concept of democracy. As I have said, I would like to see democratic reform of the House of Lords. As for the practicality of it—as has just been raised by my noble friend Lord Low—with online voting coming, I am sure, and with modern electronic methods, we do not need a sort of general election set-up with lots of voting polls. Things will be handled electronically online, and this is an interesting way of introducing some democracy and accountability. I support the amendment.

[Lord Rooker]

Such Members as would be elected under this amendment would not be bound by the conventions of the House. That is the fundamental issue. I cannot take seriously people talking about reform in terms of the composition of the House. They completely ignore the functions and powers of the House. We cannot have the existing powers and functions of the House unchanged and then impose an election on it—under that structure there would be no dispute resolution between the two Houses. At the present time, the Commons always has the last word. That is my telling point when I take part in Peers in Schools. We are not equal Houses. The Commons always has the last word. Very occasionally it might have to wait a year, but the fact is it always has the last word because it is elected. It is as simple as that.

If, like Nick Clegg, one refuses to accept the discussion about the functions and powers of the House and only wants to change the composition process, that will lead to absolute chaos in the governance of the country. I cannot take seriously those who say we want an elected second Chamber, because they completely ignore the two fundamental things that have to change. Before we get elected to this House, we have to know what we are going to do when we get here. It is no good saying: “Oh, we’ll change it afterwards”. If we get an elected second Chamber, the first thing the elected Peer will say is, “I’ve got a mandate. Open the cupboard. What are my powers? I can chuck out this Bill from the Commons. I don’t agree with it—I don’t have to scrutinise anything because I’ve got a mandate”. There would be no dispute resolution. I cannot take such ideas seriously.

Electoral Commission

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I refer the noble Lord to paragraph 1.13 of the Electoral Commission’s report:

“No other person was under investigation by the Commission”.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

Does the Minister think that there is the slightest chance of the BBC giving a fair and balanced report of the Electoral Commission’s report?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I have not had time to listen to the BBC and its report on the Electoral Commission. As the noble Lord knows better than anyone else, if he believes that the BBC has been guilty of any bias, there are procedures for making the relevant complaint.

Elections: Electoral Commission Recommendations

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Thursday 28th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I commend the noble Lord on his persistence and ingenuity in campaigning tirelessly for his Private Member’s Bill. He refers to an anomaly. This was introduced in 1998. If it was so absurd, why, for the next 12 years, when his party was in office—when he, indeed, was Chief Whip—did he allow this anomaly to remain on the statute book?

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

Have the Government had a chance yet to consider the publication this week by Bloomberg of a report relating to referendum night, when the use by hedge funds of secret, unpublished exit polling created hundreds of millions of pounds of profit, aided and abetted by the lies told by Farage about what he knew about the exit polls and the result? The use of secret exit polls to make money on election nights is a really serious issue that was not raised in the House’s Select Committee, the report of which will be published next week.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Lord draws attention to a debate taking place next Tuesday, I think, on the Select Committee report on political polling. That, I think, is probably the appropriate place to raise that. I have seen the reports. My understanding is that what happened was not illegal, because the information was not put into the public domain on election day, but I agree that this is an issue that could be raised on Tuesday. The Minister who has the good fortune to reply to that debate will have a slightly longer answer than the one the noble Lord has just received.

Civil Society and the Democratic Process

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Tuesday 27th June 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Rooker]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to bring forward amendments to legislation to ensure that civil society plays a meaningful role in the democratic process.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, the rules for third-party campaigning are set out in the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. The law was changed in 2014 to ensure that third-party campaigning was more transparent and accountable through the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act 2014. The Government are keen to ensure that civil society plays a meaningful role in the democratic process, and believe that current legislation facilitates this.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

Is it not the case that the present position harms our democracy and keeps important voices out of public debate? In fact, civil society was effectively snuffed out at the general election. Does the Minister agree that organisations involved in incomes for pensioners, the care of the elderly, the care and education of children, social housing and public safety should be allowed to express their views freely at the next general election?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. I know he has taken a particular interest in this and served on the Select Committee that produced the report Stronger Charities for a Stronger Society. One of its conclusions was that although charities are quite properly regulated in their campaigning activities, particularly at election times, any new regulation or guidance should clearly recognise that advocacy is an important and legitimate part of their role, to be set out in clear and unambiguous language. We need to strike a balance between, on the one hand, the rights of civil society to campaign in the way the noble Lord has just mentioned, and on the other, maintaining the integrity of the electoral process by having transparency on expenditure.