Sentencing Bill

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 1st December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I support my noble friends and the noble Lord, Lord Foster of Bath, in the amendments they have spoken to in this group. The noble Lord, Lord Foster, was quite right to draw attention to gambling and how that can be an addiction, like other addictions which are so prevalent within the prisons. My noble friend Lord Bach made a very interesting point on the right to representations about the proportionality of licence conditions when prisoners leave the custodial bit of their sentence.

I really want to concentrate my comments on what my noble friend Lord Brooke said about the addiction of many people in our prisons—to drink, gambling and drugs, as we all know. He talked very persuasively about the continuity of care that needs to happen within the prison and as prisoners leave prison. With the previous Government, it was called a through-the-gate approach. Although the aspiration was clearly there, it has not been managed very well.

I want to talk about my own experience on the street I live on in Wandsworth, where we have a residential centre and I occasionally, not infrequently, come across men—usually—who attend the community events I go to in my immediate vicinity. Invariably, they tell me about the importance of the various programmes they are going on, whether they are able to be directed to them from within prison or from the residential centre they attend.

I reinforce the points my noble friend made. I was glad that he said he has had ongoing discussions with our noble friends on the Front Bench. I look forward to hearing what they will have to say about his amendments.

Sentencing Bill

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 6th January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very pleased to support my friend, the noble Baroness, Lady Sater. We sat together as youth magistrates for many years at the old Hammersmith youth court. She has fully set out what must be an anomaly. I have not heard any explanation in defence of the current situation. She gave the example of two offenders who have committed the same offence at the same time but, because of some geographical issue, were sentenced at different times on either side of their 18th birthday, with different outcomes. They would not have had access to referral orders or youth rehabilitation orders, which are, in our experience, better at rehabilitating young people.

There would also be the problem with the DBS checks. If somebody was subsequently to get or apply for a job, they would get different results in the DBS check depending on whether they were sentenced before or after their 18th birthday. This is an anomaly. I look forward to what my noble friend can say, because this is part of a wider look at how youth DBS records are kept. Nevertheless, this example is a true anomaly. I hope that the Government can be as sympathetic as possible to this amendment.

[Lord Garnier (Con)]

My Lords, in the spirit of friendship, I acknowledge the charming but highly persuasive way in which my noble friend advanced her amendment, which I am only too pleased to support, and recognise the support of the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, who is also my friend. I will embarrass him further by saying that he is my very distant kinsman, which will completely ruin his credibility for anything further in his parliamentary life; it is a cross that he will have to bear.

The noble Lord and my noble friend bring to the Chamber years of experience as sitting and sentencing magistrates. Very often in England and Wales, it is magistrates who deal with youth offenders. We should listen to what they have to say and to their experience. I very much to support all that they have said. I urge the Government to pay close attention to what has been said and come forward with proposals of their own, if they do not accept what my noble friend advanced in her amendment, so that we can get rid of this injustice, which is, as the noble Lord said, a most extraordinary anomaly.