Human Rights: Sportswashing

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Thursday 21st March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

Before we get away from the video, will the Minister defend the words that the UK ambassador said in it?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I have not seen the video, and I do not want to defend words I have not heard. I have set out how His Majesty’s ambassador and all Crown servants overseas follow the policies of His Majesty’s Government and are rightly held to account for what they say publicly—but my colleagues at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office are perhaps better placed to discuss that.

It is important that we continue to have direct conversations on human rights and other important matters. The UK continues to show global leadership in encouraging all states to uphold international rights obligations and to ensure that those who violate human rights are held to account. The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, mentioned the World Cup in Qatar, where I hope he saw that my right honourable friend Stuart Andrew—the Minister for Sport and the Minister for Equality—made the point directly by wearing the OneLove rainbow armband when he attended. By doing so, he showed that we do not shy away from these conversations and gestures. Following the tournament, we continue to engage with Qatar, which has moved forward on labour rights, as noted by noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Moynihan, who pointed to the independent monitoring done by the International Labour Organization.

The benefits of inward investment are key in international sport. In the last decade, there has been an unprecedented level of interest and a flow of private capital investment into the sports sector globally, particularly from international institutional investors. Like others, I think my noble friend Lord Hayward did us a great service in this debate by touching on the importance of sponsors. The Government have consistently supported the UN guiding principles on business and human rights, which are widely regarded as the authoritative international framework to steer practical action by both Governments and businesses across the world in this important area.

The last decade has seen growth in a number of areas across sport, with significant levels of new and innovative investment, particularly in women’s sport. The Government have outlined the important role of inward investment in our sports sector through their recently published sports strategy, which works to encourage investment in our sport system in a sustainable manner. We will work across government departments and with external partners to highlight best practice and opportunities for inward investment in our domestic sport, including women’s sport.

In July, the Government hosted the inaugural investment in sport symposium, bringing people from the sector together with investors and other associated organisations to discuss the opportunities that are available. We have also launched a new women’s sport investment accelerator pilot scheme, which brings UK-based women’s sports rights holders who are seeking investment together with industry experts and investors. We believe there are further opportunities within the sector, in the form of viable investment propositions for the right investors who are committed to the long-term growth and health of the sport.

I am grateful to the noble Lord for what has been a timely debate and a chance to look ahead to the debates we will have on the independent football regulator, but also a powerful opportunity to remind us of the importance of how the Government engage with countries around the world through sport and in other ways, to the benefit of the UK, our sportsmen and sportswomen, and the millions of people across the country who enjoy sport in all its forms.

I was struck by what the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, said. There is a powerful lesson in the example of Lloyd George, whose comments about the impression he formed at the 1936 Olympic Games are difficult to hear, not just for the noble Lord and his colleagues on the Liberal Benches but for us all. But I am glad that, as we look back on those Olympics, it is the figure of Jesse Owens, with his impressive four gold medals, that looms larger in the historical imagination, underlining the importance of seizing the opportunity of sporting events to advance important conversations on matters of human rights and politics, which, as noble Lords have rightly said, are often intertwined.

William Hill: Breaches of Player Protection

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 29th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

Nearly half of adults in this country choose to gamble. This is a legal activity which many people do without any harm, but we know that when people get into gambling-related harm, the consequences can be very serious. That is why successive Governments have tried to look at this in a balanced way. We are looking at laws which do not adequately reflect the way that people gamble online nowadays. We are grateful to the many people who have provided evidence, from the industry, campaign groups and people who gamble. We want to make sure that we get the right balance between protecting people’s freedom to carry out a legal activity and preventing them from falling into harm.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the Minister has described the penalty for William Hill as a record penalty set at a very high level. It is four days’ revenue for the parent company, which last year won £1.8 billion from punters. Should not the fine be a percentage of its total revenue, and what does the Minister think a company like William Hill would have to do to get suspended, given that among the many horrendous cases, we have 331 gamblers who chose to use the self-exclusion mechanism and were then able to gamble on the site?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

As the commission made clear, it looked at tougher sanctions. However, because the operator in this instance admitted its fault and has started to take steps to address it, the commission chose to impose the regulatory penalty that it did. It is making financial penalties available. In relation to this case, it is also requiring the company to undergo a third-party audit to assess how it is implementing its anti-money laundering and safer gambling policies, procedures and controls. The commission is using the powers that it has at its fingertips.

Gambling Act 2005

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 9th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

The Government have always been clear, as I said, that we will look at the case for alternative funding mechanisms and all options remain on the table. Of course, we are taking views from industry, as we are from everybody with an interest in this area. We will take all those views into account as we prepare the White Paper.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I declare my position as a member of Peers for Gambling Reform. In Washwood Heath Road in Ward End, Birmingham, there are three bookmakers next to each other and another a few metres away. It is known to the locals as the bookie belt. We know from studies last year that bookmakers are 10 times more likely to be in the poorest areas of the country than the richest. This takes away choice in food and other essential shops. Should not the Government’s levelling-up White Paper have dealt with this issue of place-based gambling dominance?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, it is also important to remember that a great number of people gamble legally and enjoy doing so without harm. We want to strike the right balance to make sure that people can conduct this legal activity, while addressing questions of regional disparities. That is why we have put out our call for evidence. We are glad to have received so many submissions and are considering them carefully.

Human Rights Priority Countries

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Monday 13th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights says that climate change threatens the effective enjoyment of a range of human rights, including those to life, water and sanitation, food, health, housing, self-determination, culture and development. There are widespread reports that appear to confirm that binding temperature commitments under the Paris Agreement have been cut from the Australian free trade deal. How can that be reconciled with any commitment to human rights?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, the main elements of the free trade agreement with Australia were signed by the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister of Australia at a meeting in Downing Street in June. A final agreement in principle was published on 17 June and is available on GOV.UK. The deal will help us better to address global challenges together, including combating climate change. Australia and the UK have committed to a chapter on trade and the environment, which will contain provisions affirming commitments under multilateral environment agreements, including the Paris Agreement, and also to maintain and effectively enforce domestic environmental laws and policies across a broad range of issues. We have also committed to undertaking co-operative activities, including those targeted at key technologies in the transition to a low-carbon and climate-resilient economy.

Bahrain: Human Rights Abuses

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Thursday 15th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, if the noble Lord will bear with me, I have an answer on that point. There are many pages and a lot of information and I want to make sure the noble Lord gets an answer.

In response to the recommendations in the Bahrain Independent Commission of Inquiry report and by the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, Bahrain has undertaken reforms of its juvenile justice system. We have consistently promoted and supported Bahrain in adopting a whole-system approach to youth offending, from diversion and prevention through to rehabilitation and resettlement of young people. We welcome the recent ratification by His Majesty the King of the corrective justice law for children and will be monitoring its implementation.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister is aware of the recent report of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Democracy and Human Rights in the Gulf on the Integrated Activity Fund and the Gulf Strategy Fund—I declare an interest as an endorsee—which concludes that Her Majesty’s Government have been deceptive and misleading about the £50 million in funds, putting the UK at risk of complicity in human rights violations in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. Will he respond to the report, consider its recommendations and tell this House why the Government refuse to be transparent about how this money is spent?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, the FCDO’s international programme and, within it, the Gulf Strategy Fund, is a vital tool in promoting positive change and reforms across the world, including in the Gulf. We now publish an annual summary of the GSF work on GOV.UK. We will not publish further information where doing so presents risks to our staff, programme suppliers and beneficiaries, or where it may hinder our relationships with our international partners and therefore our ability to influence their reform efforts, but we will provide annual updates.

Universities: Compulsory Redundancies

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Monday 21st June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, we are very proud of the attractiveness of UK higher education institutions to international students. We have an international students strategy that seeks to build on the successes of the past, informed by Sir Steve Smith, the former vice-chancellor of the University of Exeter. The financial stability of our world-leading university base has been a key aspect considered in all recent spending reviews. Foreign tuition and research income from outside the EU account for 15% and 1% of the total income of higher education institutions overall, so, while China may be an important contributor to non-EU foreign income, it would be wrong to characterise the sector as highly dependent on that country alone.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I am sorry to add to the litany of academic loss, but I am sure that the Minister is aware of the plans to end the undergraduate teaching of archaeology at the University of Sheffield. This was ranked 39th in the world in the 2021 QS rankings. It has received expressions of support from around the world—including, just today, from Greece. Does the Minister agree that the study of archaeology is crucial to our understanding of the present and that it is crucial for us to maintain academic centres of excellence? Will the Government reconsider their plan to slash funding for the study of archaeology?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I know that the noble Baroness’s noble friend, the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, is an archaeology graduate. As a history graduate myself, I certainly recognise the importance of the study of the past. The Government have been providing help to institutions through the ways that I have outlined a number of times and through the SURE fund for research—so we are assisting universities, particularly in light of the challenging circumstances of the past few months.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 28th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, the UK Government from the Prime Minister down are committed to doing everything we can for Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe and her family, and we are determined to see her reunited with her family in the UK. We raise her case, and those of other British dual nationals, with the Iranian Government at every opportunity, and continue to call for their immediate and permanent release. As I have said, we do not think it helpful to conflate this with other bilateral issues.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, following on from the Minister’s answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, can he tell me why the German Government are apparently being treated differently—better treated, in terms of access to trials for dual nationals—than the UK Government?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

As I have said, I cannot speak for the experience of the German Government; I can only be clear that at every opportunity we press for access to the judicial hearings, but the Iranian Government do not grant us that access, because they do not recognise Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe as a dual national.

Immigration

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 14th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, we should perhaps reflect on the comments just made by the Minister in the light of the cut to overseas development aid. I am sure the Minister is aware that asylum applications fell by 18% in 2020 and, in the year ending September 2020, the UK received 31,752 asylum applications from main applicants. The comparable figure for Germany is 155,000, for France 129,000, for Spain 128,000 and for Greece 81,000. Does the Minister agree that the UK is taking less than its fair share of people fleeing war and political turmoil—often related to our foreign policies—and people fleeing areas from which, during its colonial history, Britain extracted huge amounts of wealth? Perhaps the scheme has been affected by Covid-19, but are the Government looking to significantly step up the number to what might be said to be a fair share compared to other European states?

The Refugee Council briefing on this Statement, which I am sure many Members of your Lordships’ House have seen, is expressed in very careful, factual language, but it can be described only as a cry of horror about the policies contained in this Statement. I turn to just one area, that of age assessments.

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is taking a bit too long. Perhaps she would ask her question.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

Okay. On age assessments, how can the Minister say that it is fair to put 18 years of age as the cut-off point when it is obvious that people coming from war zones, having grown up and spent their whole lives in them, are not going to look like 18 year-olds who have been brought up in comfortable circumstances in a safe environment?

Sheikha Latifa bint Mohammed al-Maktoum

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 17th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, as that alleged incident did not involve any UK-registered vessels or British nationals, it does not fall under the UK’s jurisdiction under international law. Accordingly, we have not raised it with the Government of India.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, building on the questions of the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I refer to the 80% of the UAE population who are low-paid migrant workers. What representations have been made on the fate of what seem to be at least hundreds of women a year, including rape victims, who are prosecuted and jailed under the laws against extra-marital sex? What representations have been made on the impact of those laws not only on migrant workers, but also on women across the UAE population generally?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, we have a close relation with UAE and we are therefore able to raise matters directly with it. The Integrated Review, to which I have referred, sets out the UK’s policy and stance to make us a force for good in the world.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Monday 15th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, has explained, her Amendment 82 seeks to repeal Section 58 of the Children Act 2004 and to replace it with a provision that removes the defence of reasonable punishment from parents, or persons acting legally as parents, to charges of battery against a child in relation to any offence.

I make it clear at the outset that the Government absolutely condemn abuse and violence towards children. Accordingly, Clause 3 was added to the Bill in another place to recognise that a child is considered to be a victim of domestic abuse, including physical abuse, in his or her own right, if they see, hear or experience the effects of domestic abuse and are related to either the targeted victim of the abuser or the perpetrator. The Government are aware of recent legislation in Scotland and Wales that removes the defence of reasonable punishment. While parents are responsible for disciplining their children, they must do so within the boundaries of clear laws against violence towards children in England.

Section 58 of the Children Act 2004 changed the law significantly to give children greater protection. The defence of reasonable punishment can no longer be used when parents or those acting in place of parents are charged with assault causing actual or grievous bodily harm or child cruelty. The law in England provides that parents and other adults who are acting legally in place of the parents may plead a defence of reasonable punishment to a charge of common assault against a child. Common assault amounts to where an injury is “transient and trifling”.

Following the 2004 Act, the Crown Prosecution Service amended its guidance so that it acknowledges the particular vulnerability of children. An injury that would lead to a charge of common assault where the victim was an adult would normally be charged as actual bodily harm or a more serious offence if the victim were a child. Parents who cause injuries to children such as grazes, scratches, abrasions, bruising, swelling and superficial cuts are already at risk of being charged with actual bodily harm and would have no defence of reasonable punishment. Child protection agencies and the police treat allegations of abuse very seriously; they will investigate and take appropriate action, including prosecution, where there is sufficient evidence of an offence having been committed.

Statutory guidance, Working Together to Safeguard Children, sets out what professionals and organisations need to do to safeguard and promote the welfare of children and young people. Further statutory guidance entitled Keeping Children Safe in Education also sets out what staff in schools and colleges should do to safeguard children and young people.

Relationships, sex and health education is now a statutory part of the curriculum. The focus on healthy relationships in primary and secondary schools will help children and young people who are experiencing or witnessing unhealthy relationships to know where to seek help and report abuse, as well as addressing inappropriate behaviour, harassment, abuse or exploitation. In short, there are already strong safeguards in existing legislation and statutory guidance that protect children from physical harm as a form of punishment. The current legal position is clear, appropriate and protects children from abuse and harm. The Government do not accept that the law, as it stands, is in breach of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child; we believe that it complies with Articles 19 and 37 on abuse and violence towards children.

We accept that there are differing views on Section 58 of the Children Act, and we have heard them expressed again on both sides in what has been a lively and informative debate, including some very powerful speeches against the amendment from the noble Baronesses, Lady Hoey and Lady Fox of Buckley, and my fellow Northumbrian, the noble Lord, Lord Curry of Kirkharle. As the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, noted, this has been a long-running issue. I am glad that she has listened to the counsel of her supporters and agreed not to press this issue to a vote this evening. She and I are equally new to your Lordships’ House as we were introduced around the same time, but I agree with those who have said that this is too an important an issue to be slipped into the Bill at this late stage. However, she rightly used the opportunity to ask some questions and seek a meeting. That is properly a matter for the Department for Education, but I shall pass a request for a meeting on and ensure that it replies to her directly about it. With that, and having sparked this lively and interesting debate, I hope that she will now be content to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answer and everyone who has participated in this debate. I share the feeling of the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, about the need to draw a very deep breath before I begin. I think many people in British society would be surprised at the tone of some of the arguments presented this evening by those opposing this amendment. I suspect the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, would feel that some parts of our political landscape have not changed very much in 20 years. However, that is perhaps because there is a feeling that that part of the political landscape is very much swimming against the tide of public opinion—I might even say the tide of history.

I thank the Minister for his offer to pass on a request to the department. I will be pursuing that very vigorously, and I very much hope that we will have a ministerial meeting. These are issues that need to be raised at the highest level, particularly given what is happening in the nations around us. I welcome the Minister’s comments about how much progress is being made in sex and relationship education, something I have long been campaigning on. It is something that needs to be monitored very closely to make sure that it is meeting the needs of our current society.

The noble Lord, Lord Russell, rightly identified the reasons why I was persuaded not to push this further at this moment. This was not on the list of amendments in Committee and it is not normal practice to go further at this stage, but it is obvious that the level of debate is going to be stepped up significantly.

I am aware of the hour, so I shall be brief, but it is worth drawing together the noble Baronesses, all of whom are veterans of this campaign. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, made very important points about the context in which this debate is happening, which is the Covid pandemic, and about how we now understand so much more about adverse childhood experiences and their impact on children. That is a reflection of how far the science has moved on in the past two decades. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, who has an expert’s perspective, acknowledged how the current law undermines the Government’s efforts in child welfare and other areas and gave an expert account of what is being seen in our hospitals and by our doctors.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Committee stage & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 3rd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

[Inaudible.]

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I am afraid we cannot hear the noble Baroness. She might still be on mute.

Asylum Seekers: Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Wednesday 18th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right to talk about the work of the UN special rapporteurs, which followed the arrest of two Croatian police officers this summer. The UN has urged the country to immediately and thoroughly investigate these allegations, and we have been impressing this on the Croatian authorities at every level as well, to reinforce that important point.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, in 2016, Amnesty International found that the British people were the second most welcoming of refugees in the world, with 83% saying they would welcome them in their household and neighbourhood. Does the Minister think the British people are deeply concerned about reports of the abuses on the Croatia-Bosnia-Herzegovina border? Does he not think that people want the Government to do more to secure safe, orderly routes for some of these refugees to come to the UK?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, yes, I think the British people do take great concern at the reports we have seen, and we have seen that in questions from all corners of your Lordships’ House today. This is a matter of human dignity. That is a point that Her Majesty’s Government are making to the Croatian Government and others, and we are working with international organisations to reinforce that.

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard - continued) & Report stage & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 5th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness, but the Standing Orders make clear that she may ask one question on a point of elucidation, so perhaps she would choose her favourite of the three.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

That is really difficult. I will go to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, about being in an airport or train station and the fact that you have to have two pieces of technology working. The Minister said that the Government’s systems will be wonderful but, of course, this relies on other people’s systems. As the Minister said, our systems are great, but the noble Baroness, Lady Shackleton, said that she has had a problem; all of us have encountered those problems. Imagine that situation at the airport or train station: the clock is ticking, the queue is moving and the plane is about to go—and the systems are not working. What are people going to do and what situations will they be stuck in as a result?

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords & Report: 1st sitting & Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Wednesday 30th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I wish to move this amendment formally. We are in unprecedented political times. We are racing towards a disastrous year of chaos, confusion and disruption as a result of the ending of the Brexit transition and the continuing pandemic. I have listened very carefully to the debate—

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

The noble Baroness just has to move her amendment formally, which I believe she has done.

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Committee stage & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 16th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I have two requests to speak after the Minister from the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister had clearly not been informed that I was already waiting to ask a question, so I hope this does not come as too much of a shock to him. However, in the interests of clarity in this debate, I am sure he will agree to note the fact that the human ecological footprint is a product of a number of people in an area or nation, or on the globe, multiplied by their consumption level. I am sure he will know that the people of the UK collectively consume our share of three planets’ resources each year, but we have only one planet. Even if we had half the number of people in the UK that we have now, we would greatly exceed the planetary limits.

Can the Minister confirm the Government’s understanding of the essential environmental approach in areas ranging from the climate emergency—noting our special responsibilities as COP26 chair—to the nature crisis and water concerns that we discussed earlier in Oral Questions? The key approach is transforming our currently wasteful, destructive treatment of the planet as a mine and dumping ground, which has produced a miserable, insecure and vulnerable society—as exposed by Covid-19—that exceeds a significant number of planetary boundaries.

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

It is not a shock but a pleasure to hear from the noble Baroness, and a particular pleasure to agree with what she says about it being not just the level of consumption but the overall number of people that has an ecological impact. That is why I am pleased to be part of a Government who are pursuing our world-leading target of achieving net zero.

Coronavirus Bill

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 25th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, I think the House might be keen for the noble Lord to conclude his remarks so that we can proceed at pace with this emergency legislation and hear other noble Lords’ contributions.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle]

My Lords, the Green group supports all the amendments in this group. I have two brief points to make.

Collectively, these amendments make this whole profoundly undemocratic, rushed but essential process that we have undertaken a little more democratic. Statistics show that in epidemics, death rates are lower in democracies than they are in autocracies. Those figures have been worked out over a range of epidemics. Democracy is an effective medicine. Your Lordships’ House has heard me comment often on what I see as the weaknesses of our democracy, both here and in the other place, but this is the best thing we have got. Let us not handicap it further: let us adopt these amendments and acknowledge that they bring the opportunity for more scrutiny and better decision-making through the involvement of more people.

I want to address particularly Amendment 7, about three-month reviews, and the timeframe for this. It was actually about three months ago, it is believed, that the coronavirus crossed the species barrier. This whole thing biologically started three months ago, somewhere in China—probably Wuhan. Two months ago, diplomats were just being flown out of Wuhan. Think about how fast things have moved. Just last night, we had a report from Oxford University—an epidemiological study that basically blew through and potentially redrew our entire understanding of what is happening right now.

Where we will be in three months’ time is utterly unknowable and may be massively different from where we are today. We need a proper, full debate in three months’ time. With regard to the other amendment and the ability of the other place to amend this legislation, we need a debate there so that it can put in and take out parts of it if they are not working. We cannot leave this for six months. That is more than double the time this entire situation has existed from its first biological moment. Six months is too long.

[Lord Tyrie]

I agree with those remarks too. Is it your Lordships’ will that I make my second point, or have people heard enough from me? I will do my best to be as brief as I can.

I said that there was one crucial piece of work to be done on wider health economics. A second piece of work that needs to be undertaken derives directly from the Imperial paper; we know that this is a very dangerous disease for the elderly but that it appears to have a very low casualty rate among young people without underlying respiratory conditions. There is no immediate prospect of effective treatment—reinforcing by implication the unsustainability of the lockdown—and no early prospect of a vaccine. It seems to me that it must be worth considering any means we can to get towards more normal economic life, and therefore not needing these amendments, by permitting young people, who are sharply less vulnerable to severe outcomes, to return to their workplaces.

Those who did this—it would have to be on a voluntary basis—would need to accept that a very high proportion of them might become infected and therefore have herd immunity develop among them. In an indefinite lockdown, massive direct financial support for the elderly would need to be maintained.

Understandably, the Government have not had time to assemble or publish elementary data for such an approach, but I do not think it would be appropriate to maintain this legislation without these sunset clauses or demonstrating an attempt to develop such approaches. The weakness of the data, in any case, is not an argument against developing such policies, any more than it is an argument against the suppression policy. Much of the data on which the current policy is based is very uncertain.