Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Bill [HL]

Lord Pannick Excerpts

Monday 1st November 2010 Lords Chamber

I accept that an increasing number of international conventions confer what is called “universal jurisdiction”, but no one suggests that regulation 1373 has that effect. If the Treasury has reason to believe that a fund in London is held by a French terrorist who is not resident here, it must simply inform the French authorities who, if they agree, will take the necessary action by designating the individual and freezing his assets. It is as simple as that. I accept that some countries are unwilling to designate their subjects as terrorists, but that cannot affect the meaning of the word “person” in Clause 2. I beg to move.

[Lord Pannick]

My Lords, to achieve its purpose this Bill needs to confer powers in relation both to persons and to assets within the jurisdiction. I understood the Minister to assure the House on Report that the Bill, as currently drafted, covers both categories of case. I do not understand that to involve extra-territorial effect, although the descriptive term may be less significant than the substance. My concern is where we find in the Bill a clear statement to the effect that a person may be the subject of a designation order because he has assets in this country even though he otherwise has no connection with this country. I hope the Government will give further thought to that matter as the Bill proceeds through the other place.

[Baroness Hamwee]

My Lords, I cannot bring the same academic knowledge to this debate as the noble and learned Lord and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, but I start with the question of what this Bill aims to achieve and what it is directed at. As I understand it, it deals with assets that are in the UK. For me, other questions flow from that. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, that if there is a query over the scope of the Bill, it should be clarified. One would hope not to have an argument such as this repeated either in the other place or, indeed, in court. However, having been involved with this Bill and its predecessor, I do not have the anxieties that have been expressed this afternoon.