Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 5th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I will not take any lessons from a party that wasted 13 years in not doing anything about extra capacity. It is a bit rich of the hon. Gentleman to accuse the Government of not taking action. The truth is that all the options that are being discussed by the commission are very different from the proposals considered by the previous Government.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Has the Secretary of State asked the Airports Commission to examine the cumulative impact of any runway extension at Heathrow and how it would affect the local area if it coincided with other projects, such as the construction of HS2, the Amersham waste transfer station and the development of Newland park? What assessment has been made of the impact on the local area?

[Mr McLoughlin]

The commission is doing a comprehensive piece of work looking at all the options relating to aviation capacity in the south-east and the associated infrastructure projects that any project it suggests will affect, so I am sure it will have considered the points made by my right hon. Friend.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 22nd January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Physically disabled passengers and mothers with prams, for example, arriving at Amersham station have no real means of exiting the station. Work on the lifts was started and some groundwork was done, but it was taken out. The Secretary of State must know that Amersham station comes under Transport for London, and my constituents have no vote for that London authority, which has just received an extra £75 million additional funding to make the network accessible. What support can he give to me and my constituents, and campaigners such as Chesham and district transport users group, in getting this vital step-free access installed at Amersham station?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am concerned if work that has been started on a project has not been completed. I will contact Sir Peter Hendy of TfL and write to my right hon. Friend.

High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Bill

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Monday 28th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I will give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), but then I must make some progress.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way while he is laying out his case. However, the case he is making for HS2 fails to recognise that there will still have to be an awful lot of work on our classic railway. It would be wrong if he did not tell people that the west coast main line is crumbling and will still need major investment and repairs, and that our classic railway will suffer. I hope that the money will be there for those railways, too.

[Mr McLoughlin]

I do not think that I have been misleading. I have been very open about the west coast main line. I do not think it is crumbling—as I have said, there has been £10 billion upgrade on the line north of Rugby. Between 2014 and 2019, we shall be spending £38 billion on the existing railway network, on things such as the electrification of the midland main line and a number of other schemes that I have already mentioned.

Even on moderate forecasts, services will be increasingly full by the mid-2020s. If we do not create extra capacity, people at stations such as Milton Keynes and Northampton will have to queue to get on a train to get to work. That is despite the £9 billion that we have spent on the west coast main line in recent years. More upgrades like that will not provide the extra capacity that we need. A new north-south railway line is the right answer. From day one, it will improve journey times and train services to Manchester and to the north-west and Scotland, because HS2 trains will continue on the existing network. It will free up more space for commuters and freight on existing routes, and places up and down the country will benefit from more services and seats. Although it is too early to talk about precise timetables, Milton Keynes, an area of particularly close interest for my Parliamentary Private Secretary, could get 11 trains an hour to London compared with six now, and places such as Rugby would get more non-stop journeys to London.

Today's debate is about phase 1, but when it is complete HS2 will be a wider network. We have consulted on phase 2, and I know that many Members have a strong interest in ensuring that we get the plans right. That should include serving cities on the eastern leg through the east midlands, Sheffield and Leeds as well as the north-west, and we will set out more details later this year.

Of course we must design HS2 well and build it carefully, which means making sure that our young people have the skills to get the engineering jobs it will create. We have therefore announced plans for the first new further education college in 20 years, backed by HS2. Soon we shall announce the winning location for the central facility and a network of outposts. I know that many places are keen to take part, such as Aylesbury college, Manchester and Birmingham.

One of the things that matters most about HS2 is the huge opportunity it offers to the next generation. There will be 2,000 apprenticeships—not just one-off jobs building the line, but careers. The numbers involved mean that we will take the skills base in this country to a new level, so the country will not only be better connected but better trained with the skills we need to compete not only in transport but across a range of industries. This is not just investment in steel and rolling stock; it is a huge investment in our people across the nation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am not sure what point the right hon. Gentleman is trying to make. If we only built infrastructure projects when we had the support of everyone concerned, we would be building very little infrastructure in this country.

[Mrs Gillan]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for acknowledging that some parts of the country will take all the pain of this project but get none of the gain, unlike with the M40, which benefited Buckinghamshire and contributed to its economy by enabling people to get on and off it. I hope he is not ruling out looking at further mitigation, particularly for the area of outstanding natural beauty, which concerns not only my constituency but that of my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington). If one is to have environmental credentials, it is important to protect our environment to the highest degree when implementing projects of this nature.

[Mr McLoughlin]

Of the 20.8 km of the route that passes through the Chilterns, only 3.3 km will be on the surface—at the moment the rest will be below ground level. I understand my right hon. Friend’s point, and that is something we need to bear in mind. She is right that her constituents benefited directly from the M40, and that was paid for by taxpayers across the whole country, rather than just by those in that area. I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for St Albans (Mrs Main), as she has not yet intervened.

High-speed Rail

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Monday 24th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

The hon. Lady, as Chair of the Transport Committee, has spent a lot of time looking at that, and indeed has taken evidence from me, Network Rail and Sir David Higgins over recent months. She will know that there is huge investment. In her city, for example, in May this year we will see the first express train running from Liverpool to Manchester, which I welcome. It is part of the northern hub, with over £500 million of investment linking Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and, eventually, Hull.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

It is a reflection of the poor genesis of the project that, four years down the line, the Secretary of State is still making fundamental adjustments to the plans for HS2. It does not matter how many studies or justifications he puts forward, he needs to understand that for many of my constituents, it is like putting lipstick on a pig. However glossy the lipstick, HS2 is still a pig.

I am sad that the Secretary of State can stand at the Dispatch Box and say that he respects the environment when we are still not to have full tunnelling under the whole area of outstanding natural beauty in the Chilterns and when neither Front-Bench team has had the decency to talk about compensation. My constituents, and many people up and down the line, still do not know what the compensation package is, and it is about time that he came to the Dispatch Box and announced the generous and fair compensation that the Prime Minister promised.

[Mr McLoughlin]

I hope very soon to be able to make announcements about the Government’s proposals for compensation. I would just say to my right hon. Friend that on the one hand I am attacked for listening to people, and then on the other hand I am attacked for not listening to people. I suppose that is just one of the problems of dealing with big infrastructure projects—wherever we take them, there will always be people who are directly affected, and they will not be convinced of the necessity of them. However, I am convinced of the necessity of high-speed rail for our cities in the north.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 20th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am not in a position to announce what will be in the future legislative programme for this House. It is no secret, given that it has been announced by my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House, that the state opening of Parliament will be in June. There is certainly no time left in this Session.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

The Institute of Directors surveyed more than 13,000 directors for its spring report to gain their views on HS2. More than half of them thought that it was poor value for money and more than 60% thought that the budget that is earmarked for the project would provide a better return if it was used to improve the existing road and rail networks. Why do the Government not listen to the wider business community, rather than to the lobbying of businesses with vested interests, such as the High Speed Rail Industry Leaders Group, most of whom turned out to be on the Government payroll?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I listen to the Institute of Directors, and I also listen to the CBI, which supports HS2, and to the British Chambers of Commerce, which has written to the Prime Minister about it. I also listen to the local authority leaders, who are united in their view that HS2 is the right thing to do to close the north-south divide in this country and provide the north with the type of rail services that it deserves. I would also point out that we have had significant investment in London transport, and it is about time that the rest of the country got some of the investment as well.

Flooding: Transport Disruption

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 13th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

In my answer, I tried to be open with the House on all the problems being faced by passengers and our constituents across the country. I do not think it helps when the Opposition try to suggest that money is not available. When I was here last Thursday, I was the one speaking up for all the passengers who were being inconvenienced by strikes that the Opposition were deliberately incredibly quiet about. I need no lectures on speaking up for passengers and the people who use our public services.

As far as money and investment is concerned, the simple fact is this: as the Prime Minister has made absolutely clear, there is no limit to the amount of money that the Government are providing for immediate flood relief. We will do everything we can to help those people who are very badly affected and will be affected for months to come. That is a commitment from the whole of the Government: the Government certainly speak with one voice on this subject.

I also point out very clearly that, between 2014 and 2019 in the next round of investment in the railways cleared by this Government, we will see record sums invested in our railways. Indeed, as part of the investment programme, a tunnel that is very important for the south-west, has just been relined. A lot of the money we are talking about—the £850 million being spent on Reading station—is all about improving resilience in the long term. A lot of the money being spent by Network Rail over the next five years—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Blackpool South (Mr Marsden), like a parrot, keeps saying, “It’s not new money.” The simple point is that it is new money. It is the £38 billion that we are going to invest in Network Rail over the next five years. It is important, too, and represents a record level of investment—a level of investment never reached by the previous Government when there was plenty of money available. When the buckets were overflowing, they did not invest in our infrastructure; we are investing in it, rebuilding the British railways, and the roads as well.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I would like to associate myself with the remarks of both Front Benchers about the victims and those people working around the clock to help people in trouble. I also congratulate Ministers on getting a grip of this situation and offering support wherever they can.

Following the flooding in 2008, the UK received about £127 million from the EU solidarity fund, which, in exceptional circumstances, can be used for regional disasters to help with clear-up work and infrastructure restoration. Our Welsh Conservative MEP, Dr Kay Swinburne, has been calling on the Government to co-ordinate with the Welsh Government to unlock funds from the solidarity fund in particular. Will my right hon. Friend work with Dr Swinburne, the Welsh Government and other parts of the country to ensure we unlock the maximum amount of money from this European fund during these terrible times?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I can reassure my right hon. Friend that this matter was discussed last night in the Cobra meeting, and my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General is looking at all the avenues for collecting any money that might be available.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 6th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

The other day I heard the leader of the RMT say that his holiday last week was planned 11 months ago. Presumably, when he called the strike date, he knew when his holiday was. The least he could have done was to abandon his holiday before the strike action and be in the country, ready to negotiate. I am waiting for the hon. Lady and other Opposition Members to condemn this outrageous strike action, which is causing nothing but misery to millions of people who work in London. They should condemn it, as I do.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

The spend on transport services in Yorkshire and London must also include the compensation paid to people adversely affected by services such as HS2. When are the Government going to pull their finger out and announce the compensation package for my constituents and others affected up and down the country, and let them know what they can expect to get for their properties, which are being rendered worthless by this scheme?

[Mr McLoughlin]

My right hon. Friend knows that I take the issue of compensation incredibly seriously. We promised to consult again on this and we have done that. I will attempt to come forward with the conclusions of that consultation as soon as possible. I am in no doubt about the problems faced by many people on the proposed route, and I take those responsibilities very seriously indeed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 19th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

3. What assessment he has made of the most recent estimate of the costs to the public purse of High Speed 2.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick McLoughlin)]

The most recent cost estimate for both phases of the project is £42.6 billion and £7.5 billion for rolling stock. This includes a contingency of £14.4 billion for construction costs and £1.7 billion for rolling stock. The project currently assumes that the cost of HS2 is to be funded by the public purse. However, my Department is exploring the scope to draw in third-party funding to lessen the cost exposure to the taxpayer.

[Mrs Gillan]

Mr Speaker, I wish you and the Secretary of State a very happy Christmas. The Secretary of State could of course give both our constituencies an early Christmas present by cancelling HS2, but I do not suppose that that is on the drawing board. If everything in the garden is so rosy with regard to the finances, why does he feel it necessary to continue to suppress the Major Projects Authority reports on the risks associated with the project? Suppressing those reports does not send out a very good message to people about the project, whether they are for it or against it. In the absence of any response to my questions about this from the Cabinet Office Minister, will the Secretary of State tell the House what his intentions are with regard to the reports? Will he confirm or deny that he is continuing to try to prevent their publication?

[Mr McLoughlin]

The one thing that HS2 is not short of is reports from various committees, either of this House or across the wider spectrum. The simple fact is that the report my right hon. Friend refers to is one direct to Ministers, and it is not usual to publish such reports. That report is two years old and it gave an amber/red—I think that is in the public domain—but the latest report has given an amber, which shows that even the Major Projects Authority recognises that we have made major strides forward.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr McLoughlin]

I would be delighted to meet the hon. Gentleman to discuss that point. I would point out that we are spending a huge amount of money on train services that link into the north. The northern hub will bring a substantial improvement. Huge improvements are also going on at Manchester Victoria station.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

T9. Sir David Higgins takes up his job as the head of HS2 in January with instructions to bring the costs of HS2 down. Will the Secretary of State promise that any reductions or savings will definitely not come from the compensation for people whose lives are affected by HS2 or from the costs of protecting and restoring our precious environment?

[Mr McLoughlin]

As I said earlier, one of the reasons the costs have increased, which my right hon. Friend often attacks, is that we have gone to extra lengths to protect the environment. There will be a huge amount of tunnelling in her constituency, which will cost more money. Sir David Higgins is a well respected engineer and has been a leader of great projects in our country, including the Olympics, which were delivered on time and below budget. I am sure that when he takes up this post, he will bring that expertise to the job.

Transport Infrastructure

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am always slightly cautious in the answers I give to the right hon. Gentleman, who has the distinguished record of being one of the longest-serving Transport Secretaries of recent times. I would point out, however, that when he was Secretary of State and the 2003 White Paper was published, there was only one mention of Dubai. Things have changed hugely in aviation over the last few years, which is why it was right to set up this commission. The right hon. Gentleman was wrong on his original assumption: Gatwick is an alternative—it is not necessarily a case of Heathrow and nothing else—as is the Thames estuary.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

The commission report places great importance on the success of all the options it is still looking at through effective and integrated surface transport links. So much so that the commission, which I understand is carrying out, in the Secretary of State’s own words, work that merits the fullest consideration, now intends to examine the HS2 line and the possible HS2 spur to Heathrow. Surely the Government should now wait until this work is completed and the final decision on airport capacity is made before pressing ahead with a high-risk £50 billion project that might end up being built in quite the wrong place.

[Mr McLoughlin]

I refer my right hon. Friend to page 202 of the report. I thought that she would raise this issue, so I refer her to paragraph 6.94:

“A high speed rail spur from the main HS2 line to the airport is not included in the cost estimate, but the Commission will consider the case for this as part of its review of surface access options. It will not, however, consider the case for any re-routing of the main HS2 line.”

I believe that it is a vital part of the national infrastructure of the United Kingdom.

High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 31st October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Of course, it echoed the words of Lord Mandelson, who really does know an awful lot about the genesis of this project. It certainly has that vampiric touch about it, as I think Members on both sides of the House can appreciate.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick McLoughlin)]

If HS2 is going to suck the lifeblood of the northern cities, as the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) suggests, why are the leaders of those northern cities, such as Sir Richard Leese and Albert Bore, the loudest demanders of this service?

[Mrs Gillan]

Oh simple, simple question, Secretary of State! What leader of any council of any political colour or persuasion would turn down the millions and millions of pounds being thrown at their areas? It would be completely stupid of them to do anything other than support it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 12th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I do not want to anticipate or prejudge what the Davies commission report will say. The commission is very important and its interim report is due by the end of the year. The hon. Lady makes a point about infrastructure and the rest of the railway network. It is essential that we carry on investing in rail services in other parts of the country and, over the next spending review, Network Rail plans to spend some £37.5 billion on the current railway network.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

The Secretary of State was forced this week to launch a so-called fightback with a piece of expensive and self-justifying research from KPMG on HS2, because he has lost control of the budget and of the arguments, including the need to travel at speeds in excess of 250 mph. It is about time that we replaced HS2 with a thoroughly researched and prepared integrated transport strategy for all regions, including Wales, and covering air, road, rail and communications links. When will he cancel that project and produce a decent overall strategy?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am not sure I was forced to do anything, but I was asked by the Public Accounts Committee to do proper research and to back up the case for HS2. I dare say that if yesterday’s report had come out negative, all those people who are against HS2 would have been shouting it from the rooftops. Because it came out positive, they are opposed to it.

High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 26th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick McLoughlin)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Today, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has set out far-reaching plans to provide the infrastructure that we need to compete in the global race. We need better roads, better airports, better ports, and better rail links too—an ambitious programme for all parts of our country, with HS2 an important part of that. A growing economy, a growing population and growing demand for transport, which have seen rail travel double in a decade, mean that we must act. HS2 will be the first new main rail line north of London for 120 years, linking at least eight of our 10 largest cities, and improving services for Scotland too. I am pleased that HS2 enjoys the broad backing of all the main parties in the House. I want to make three points.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

The Secretary of State has just said that the proposed High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill paves the way for links to Scotland, so will he explain why clause 1(2)(a) does not make any mention of Scotland or proposals to connect HS2 to Scotland?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I shall come on to explain, if I may make a bit of progress, the way in which we shall link up to Scotland, and why the Bill covers the area. The Bill provides that important opportunity, and I shall come to that in a short while.

As I was saying, I want to make three points: first, the reason why a new high-speed line is right; secondly, the purpose of the Bill; and thirdly, the work that we are doing to manage the costs of the scheme. Why is HS2 necessary? The answer is not only speed, although HS2 will take an hour off journeys between London and Manchester, and between Birmingham and Leeds, and it will bring two thirds of people in the north of England within two hours of London.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr McLoughlin]

Indeed, but it would be very difficult to get to, and it would not have benefited from the improvements we have seen there.

I think that the answer starts with a simple point: without HS2, the key rail and road routes connecting London to the midlands and the north will soon be overwhelmed. Even on moderate forecasts, the west coast main line, the nation’s key rail corridor, will be full by the mid-2020s, a point made earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski), who wants more services from Shrewsbury to Blackpool. Having served as a Transport Minister in 1989, I know that the fundamental change that has taken place since then is that the pressure on a Transport Secretary now is often to find more services for the rail industry and more rail connections across the country—I was just talking about the west coast main line—and that is despite £9 billion of improvements north of Rugby in recent years. That means investing in the current infrastructure and trying to improve it. There are still problems south of Rugby, which is why Virgin has suffered problems in meeting some of the criteria it regards as important in providing the right kind of service.

[Mrs Gillan]

Has the Secretary of State had an opportunity to look at the financial results released by Virgin Trains this morning? They indicate that profits are down by 40.5% but revenue is up by 2.8%, which is roughly the same rate as the fare increases, so the passenger increase must be very small. It says that it has now increased capacity by 40%, and this month it started a major advertising campaign to attract passengers. Does that sound like a railway line that is full to capacity?

[Mr McLoughlin]

No, it sounds like a railway that is providing the services that all colleagues want to see. As I pointed out a few moments ago, in certain areas hon. Friends are pressing for further services that cannot be provided because Network Rail says there is no availability on the existing highways.

Rail Franchising

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

It is evident from today’s announcements that the Secretary of State’s Department will be under a great deal of pressure to deliver a vast programme of infrastructure projects. That pressure has obviously been intensified by the west coast main line franchise failure and of course the recent judicial review failure on the consultation process for HS2. Given those failures, what reassurances can the Secretary of State give us that his Department is still not overstretched and under-resourced?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for what I think was support at least for what I am doing on franchising. She talks about judicial reviews, but it is fair to say that of the 10 judicial reviews on HS2, the Department was found not to be wanting in nine cases. Only one judicial review went against us, and I am fully prepared to accept it. I wish the protesters, too, would accept the decisions made by the courts.

I can assure my right hon. Friend that my Department has the resources, and I am mindful of what Sam Laidlaw said in his report about what needed to be put into operation, and we have done that. I think that the Government’s setting up of the franchising advisory board was important—I am sorry that I failed to respond to the hon. Lady’s point about it earlier. It will report directly to the Government and to my advisory board on how the franchises are doing. I am sorry that a mistake was put out in one of the earlier press notices.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 28th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

Two weeks ago, I met representatives from Stoke, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Stafford. I welcome all views, and we will take a final decision on the route after the full consultation. The hon. Gentleman should be a bit more enthusiastic about such things.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

If HS2 goes ahead, it will do significant damage to our Buckinghamshire constituencies and the Chilterns designated area of outstanding natural beauty. We need the best environmental protection. Will the Secretary of State undertake to consider carefully this document I have with me? It is the Buckinghamshire mitigation plan, which has been painstakingly produced and endorsed by all our councils in Buckinghamshire, our business leaders and organisations, and it is intended to form the basis of a constructive and positive outlook for HS2.

[Mr McLoughlin]

I had better be careful how I answer my right hon. Friend. I will study the document she has given to me and ask for it to be studied by officials in my Department. We will do all we can to minimise damage in her area.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Can the Secretary of State confirm that landowners along the proposed High Speed 2 route are well within their rights to refuse access to consultants from HS2 Ltd who want to survey their properties and land? Will he assure me that the paving Bill will not be used to remove those rights from landowners and home owners, but will simply be used to regularise the expenditure on HS2, which has not yet been authorised by Parliament?

[Mr McLoughlin]

When we present the paving Bill, my right hon. Friend will be able to see its contents. I have not yet secured the parliamentary time to be able to present it, but I very much hope to be able to do so— I say that as I look at Members who have far more influence in this matter than I do these days. At the beginning of questions, my right hon. Friend presented to me a substantial document setting out some of the improvements she would like. In order to put them in place, we will need access to some of the land.

High Speed Rail

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Monday 28th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

May I start by thanking the hon. Lady for the support that she gives, in principle, to the project? I fully accept that HS1 was finished by the previous Government, but if we needed to get into a debating argument, I could say that it was started by the previous Conservative Government, who had the foresight to say how important it would be. Anyone who uses St Pancras station will have seen what a vast difference has been made to that station since HS1. It used to be a station that nobody wanted to go to, but now it is a destination in itself. I wanted to make that particular point first.

The hon. Lady raised a number of points. She said that I will have certain strong voices against me on this side of the House, but I dare say—I know this from some of the letters I have received from Labour Members—there will be some vocal opponents on her side of the House too. We will see how the debate goes, but that is the case. She also asked me to speculate on what might happen in the judicial review. I may have been in the Whips Office for 17 years, but I am not prepared to start speculating from the Dispatch Box on what the courts may or may not say. We will wait to hear what is said, because a judicial review has taken place. I believe that the Government have acted properly in the way this has gone forward, but we will wait to see what happens on that.

The hon. Lady talked about how some cities are disappointed not to have stations directly in the city centre. As I said in my statement, this is the start of the process and not the end of it, but I say to her that HS2 is not just about serving cities; it is about serving the regions, and so this goes a lot wider than just the cities. Some cities will have a station in them, because of the way in which things have been constructed and the way in which we can engineer into them. In certain other areas the engineering is much more difficult and a lot more expensive, but as I have said, we will of course listen. I have engaged with the city leaders—I know that some of them will be disappointed that I have not been able to say to those cities exactly where the route has gone until today—and so that process is there.

The hon. Lady talks about having a greater link between HS1 and HS2, and I am certainly prepared—I have received representations from the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), who is sitting directly behind her—to look at how that can be done. However, it is true to say that, even as presently announced, HS2 will be able to serve areas of the continent direct if there is a demand and need for that.

The hon. Lady made the point about Heathrow. The Government have set up a commission to try to get a consensus. We have a welcome consensus on HS2—cross-party consensus on big infrastructure projects is a tremendous advantage because of the time that such projects naturally take. However, it is right to see what the Davies commission says.

The hon. Lady’s final point was to ask whether we could hold the project off and bring the measures together in one Bill. That would lead to a tremendous delay. There would not just be a delay while we consulted, but a delay while the environmental assessment was conducted and consulted on. Far from making the process quicker, it would be delayed; I estimate that it would mean we probably could not have a Bill ready until 2018. I want a Bill to begin its progress in this Parliament. Of course, how the Bill progresses is up to Parliament.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Today, Mr Speaker, thousands of people will be faced with the blight and uncertainty that you and I are familiar with, because our constituents across Buckinghamshire have suffered it for nearly four years. If the Government are determined to have HS2 and to force it through, and as the Secretary of State has stressed that the economic need is greater in the north, why not really reconsider and start HS2 in the north so that the benefits are more immediate and the connectivity to the south-east and on to global markets through the as yet undecided hub airport can be better guaranteed and integrated? Would not that make more common sense?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I know how my right hon. Friend feels on this subject, and I appreciate how Members whose constituencies have the line going through them have strong representations to make in the House. However, starting the route in the north, on which, up until today, work had not been done, would not be a better way of getting greater connectivity and connections. We should bear in mind that the routes I have said are overcrowded are even more overcrowded when they come into London, which is where we need the extra capacity in the first instance.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 17th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

To what extent does the Secretary of State plan to rely on private sector money to fund HS2? Have the Government approached or received any expressions of interest from potential funders, including any foreign sovereign wealth funds?

[Mr McLoughlin]

First and foremost, I want to get the Bill for HS2 through the House. We will make further announcements on HS2 in the near future.

Rising Cost of Transport

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick McLoughlin)]

I start on a bipartisan note by joining the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) in wishing her colleague the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock), whom I see in his place, a speedy recovery and return to the Front Bench. We all wish him well and understand why he has taken the decision that he has in the short term.

I could not help but think that the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood and myself must have lived in different countries. From listening to her speech, it was almost as if there had been utopia until the general election, with everything fine and wonderful and the train companies bowing to the wishes of the Government and always doing what was right by consumers and the Government. Then I read a few Select Committee reports from the last Parliament to put me on the right track. I could not help but be struck by a report of the Transport Committee from 2006, when it had a Labour majority and a Labour Chairman. It stated:

“Both the Department for Transport and the train operating companies quoted growth and the fact that ‘the UK has the fastest-growing rail patronage in Europe’ as reasons not to be overly concerned about price levels. Indeed, the Government demonstrated breathtaking complacency”

about fares and ticketing. The hon. Lady should not imagine that the problem of fare rises is new. She said that there was no recession then, but we were about to go into one of the biggest recessions that this country has ever suffered. I will come to that a little later, but I am conscious of time—although you did not tell me to be brief, Mr Deputy Speaker, I am aware of the fact that you said there will be a time limit on speeches. I will try to be a lot briefer than the shadow Secretary of State was in her 30-minute opening speech.

I am afraid that a lot of what the hon. Lady said was a mixture of the ill informed and the inaccurate. The motion does nothing to help passengers or investment, and it says all that we need to know about the Labour party. Let us be plain about some of the facts, which might help the Opposition. The motion calls on the Government to cap regulated fares at 1% above inflation. We have. It was the last Government who planned for 70% of costs to be met by fare payers in 2013 and 2014, which would mean fares rising this year not by 1% above inflation but by double that. The fare rises are lower than they would have been under Labour’s plans. That would have been an additional tax on hard-working commuters that we have not been prepared to impose.

I do agree with the shadow Secretary of State on some things. She has said that

“we should reduce the public subsidy to the rail industry”.—[Official Report, 19 May 2011; Vol. 528, c. 522.]

I agree. She has also said that if she were running the Department’s budget now,

“we would have to make difficult and painful decisions in respect of cutting the deficit”.

Indeed, and Labour did make some of those difficult decisions. She talked about ticket office opening hours, and it is a fact that in the last five years of the Labour Government, Ministers approved cuts in opening hours at approximately 300 stations. Now the Opposition seem to think that that is wholly wrong, but they were only too aware of the need for it when they were in government.

I agree with the hon. Lady, too, that it is right that we have a record level of investment in our railways at the moment, and that railway passengers have to contribute to that as well as the taxpayer. We have more trains and better services and we are delivering new lines. We are also delivering for passengers by capping the average increase in regulated fares at RPI plus 1% not just this year but last year and next.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I note that my right hon. Friend and his fellow Ministers have a long-term aim of reducing the cost of railways to both passengers and taxpayers, and therefore ending the era of the above-inflation rail fare increase. Will he therefore reassure me that he will not look to the taxpayer and the fare-paying passenger to bear the £33 billion cost of his plans for the High Speed 2 railway?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am grateful to reaffirm to my right hon. Friend the Government’s commitment to adopt what was Lord Adonis’s plan for HS2, and I pay tribute to the former Secretary of State. My right hon. Friend and I disagree on HS2. I believe that it is vital for future investment and opportunities for the whole country. I will say more about that in the House in a few weeks’ time.

West Coast Rail Franchise

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 6th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

The hon. Gentleman is jumping to too many conclusions at the start. When the previous Government brought in Directly Operated Railways to run the east coast main line, they made it very clear that they would want to move to a franchise process and re-let the franchise, and that is certainly the position that this Government take.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

The welcome announcement of extra capacity and services on the west coast main line drives a coach and horses through one of the prime reasons for High Speed 2, which is to reduce overcrowding on the WCML. Given the stark warnings of the Laidlaw report, particularly chapter 7, which identifies failings in the capability and capacity of the Department for Transport, how can anyone trust the Department with what will be the largest peacetime spend on a project? Is it not time the Secretary of State took another brave decision and consigned this poorly managed, ill-conceived and increasingly thinly justified project to the waste paper basket?

[Mr McLoughlin]

My right hon. Friend is vociferous on this issue on behalf of her constituents. She is asking me to prejudge announcements that I will make next year. The Chancellor of the Exchequer made it clear yesterday that we will be moving forward with HS2. I look forward to welcoming her to the Department next week.

West Coast Main Line

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Monday 29th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

For the hon. Lady’s information, the Department is based in Horseferry road, not Marsham street.

Let me draw the hon. Lady’s attention to the final line of Mr Laidlaw’s letter to me today, which states:

“Firm judgments should not be made based upon what are provisional findings or wider conclusions drawn at this stage.”

I have been very open with the House about the problems we have encountered. She accuses the Government of wasting money, but she should perhaps look back at the previous Government’s record, particularly the decision by the then Deputy Prime Minister that wasted some £469 million on the flawed procurement of regional fire stations. I see that the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick), is rather amused by that, because he was directly involved.

I have come to the House and I have been open with the House. As far as the money is concerned, I talked about the £40 million that related to the bidding process and there will be some other costs. When I have those costs, I will inform the House. I will not judge them or estimate them; I will give the House the information when I have it.

The last time I gave a statement, the hon. Lady attacked us for not getting external advice. As the answers given by my right hon. Friend the Minister of State show, we did get external financial advice where necessary. Yes, some changes were made to the Department but they were well under way and being planned for before May 2010.

On the question of Virgin’s position, I made it perfectly clear the last time I made a statement that I intend to enter into an interim contract with Virgin until we can do a longer franchise. That first franchise will last up to 13 months. I did check it out, and have obviously had discussions with, the commission.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

May I congratulate my right hon. Friend on coming to the House and being so transparent and open about what is obviously a very painful part of the Department’s dealings? Will he now translate that openness and transparency across all the modelling that is being used either by the Department for Transport or its subsidiary, HS2 Ltd, for HS2? Will he now put his words into action and publish the Major Projects Authority’s report on HS2, showing that he really is a transparent Secretary of State?

[Mr McLoughlin]

As I think I said to my right hon. Friend the last time we discussed this matter, a lot of work is being done on the planning of HS2 and there will be a number of opportunities for wide-ranging debates when we discuss that Bill, but today I am dealing with the west coast main line and franchising.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 18th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am due to meet Scottish Ministers in the not-too-distant future, and I have had one phone conversation with the First Minister. Last week I announced that we will undertake a study to take HS2 further north into Scotland.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

On 7 July 2011, in a letter on transparency to all the Secretaries of State, the Prime Minister wrote:

“As you know, transparency is at the heart of our agenda for Government.”

The Department and the Cabinet Office are currently concealing information and refusing to publish the Major Projects Authority report on HS2. Will the Secretary of State now show that the Prime Minister’s words are not meaningless when it comes to HS2 and publish that report immediately?

[Mr McLoughlin]

HS2 will be the subject of a huge amount of parliamentary time as we prepare the hybrid Bill and bring it before Parliament in the next Session.

West Coast Main Line

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Cheryl Gillan

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am interested to hear what the right hon. Gentleman says. A number of points have been raised since I made the announcement. The HS2 business case has undergone an extensive quality assurance process, and we are confident that it is accurate. The August 2012 update on the economic case was supported by a 400-person day of independent quality assurance, and HS2 Ltd has appointed independent auditors to undertake a line-by-line check of the analysis being prepared for the deposit of the hybrid Bill. This is all in addition to the existing quality assurance arrangements. I am glad to say that there was a commitment to these proposals in the right hon. Gentleman’s party manifesto to the country as well as in our own.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend has come into the Department for Transport like a breath of fresh air. However, like the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson), he must know that the failure of the west coast main line franchise process has really shaken people’s faith in the facts and figures that are being used by the Department. Notwithstanding the answer that he gave to the right hon. Gentleman, while he is in the mood for ordering investigations, will he now order a full review of the facts and figures that were used to justify HS2, in order to prevent the Department from making a serious mistake?

[Mr McLoughlin]

As I do not want to incur your wrath, Mr Speaker, perhaps I should refer my right hon. Friend to the answer that I gave to the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) a few moments ago. I also addressed this issue in one of my first major speeches, in which I outlined the importance of this particular piece of infrastructure to the United Kingdom.