Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Lord Macdonald of River Glaven Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Macdonald of River Glaven]

100: Clause 12, page 8, line 25, leave out from “premises” to end of line 14 on page 9

[Lord Macdonald of River Glaven]

My Lords, this amendment addresses Clause 12, which considers the important issue of criminal legal aid in the context of advice and assistance for individuals in police custody. The clause raises the spectre that some time in the future legal aid in police stations could be subject to some form of means testing. In other words, what is now an unfettered right, applied with ease, efficiency and, above all, speed, would no longer be routinely available, and where it was it might be subject to some as yet undersigned bureaucratic process.

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, if I may interrupt, this may ruin a few speeches but I think it will help if I say that the Government intend to table an amendment to Clause 12 on Report that will remove the power to introduce means testing for initial advice and assistance at the police station.

[Lord Macdonald of River Glaven]

My Lords, I have never achieved such remarkable success with so few words. In those circumstances, I shall withdraw my amendment. I thank my noble friend for what he has just said.

[Lord McNally]

I assure the House that it was my noble friend’s eloquence that produced that result.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Macdonald of River Glaven]

How did the Minister know what I was going to say? He is quite right. I said this at Second Reading. I agree with everything that has been said. The Minister has given a clear indication that the Government will withdraw the proposal that there should be some future means-testing. In those circumstances, the Government’s response is appropriate. Let us see what the amendment will be and, if necessary, come back on Report if it does not meet our objections. I hope it will.

[Lord Bach]

Of course I agree with that. The only phrase that worries me slightly is Clause 12(2):

“The Director must make a determination under this section having regard, in particular, to the interests of justice”.

I am not sure what that adds to what happens at present. That is the only point that I wanted to make. I thank the Minister for his attitude towards this clause.

[Lord Macdonald of River Glaven]

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 100 withdrawn.