Northern Ireland

Lord Jay of Ewelme Excerpts

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Jay of Ewelme (CB)]

My Lords, I join others in expressing profound sadness at the death of Lord Cormack, whom I was proud to call a friend.

I welcome the re-establishment of Stormont and of devolved government in Northern Ireland. The governance of the United Kingdom is not particularly easy at present, and it is unlikely to get any easier under any Government elected at Westminster. But effective devolved government in Northern Ireland, as in Wales and Scotland—not straightforward, I agree—seems to be an essential part of that overall governance of the United Kingdom.

I note that recent opinion polls in Northern Ireland suggest a certain scepticism about the chances of Stormont surviving until the next elections—due in 2027. I hope those polls are wrong, for there are huge tasks now for the Northern Ireland Executive, working with the British Government, to undertake. Among other things, the NHS waiting list, the education service, public sector pay and the clean-up of Lough Neagh require urgent and sustained attention. I hope now that they will get it.

I am struck by how many new institutions are announced in Safeguarding the Union. I look forward to more detailed information in due course on how they will all work. The proposed east-west council looks particularly relevant in focusing on some of Northern Ireland’s most challenging issues, including those that I have just mentioned. But I note too that the humble Address reaffirms the importance of upholding the Belfast/Good Friday agreement in all its strands—that too is essential, as the noble Lord, Lord Caine, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, have said.

It is a great honour to chair the House of Lords Sub-Committee on the Windsor Framework—scheduled, alas, to disappear at the general election. The Windsor Framework has, of course, not been changed by Safeguarding the Union and its accompanying documents, but the restoration of devolved government in Northern Ireland provides a real opportunity for Northern Ireland’s Executive to have an effective say in its operation. I look forward to working with the newly established committees in Stormont, including the new democratic scrutiny committee.

The Windsor Framework, though unchanged by the new arrangements we are discussing today, is not a fully fledged document—it is, indeed a framework. Nowhere is this more evident than over veterinary medicines, about which the Windsor Framework committee is now conducting an inquiry. That explains why some members of the committee recently spent two hours in a large, drafty barn in County Down with some impressive farmers, veterinary experts and several hundred sheep. I cannot pre-empt the conclusions of our inquiry, but we hope to produce a report shortly. I can say that we found widespread support in Northern Ireland for the proposal set out in Safeguarding the Union to rapidly establish a veterinary medicines working group, provided that the membership is right and includes real knowledge of, and expertise on, Northern Ireland.

That leads me to my last point. Neither the Government of the United Kingdom, nor the Northern Ireland Executive are—now that we are outside the European Union—around the Council tables when EU legislation is discussed and agreed. But much of that legislation will have effect in Northern Ireland and will affect farmers, consumers and businesses. Businesses in Northern Ireland will have access to the single market for goods of the European Union and be part of the internal market of the United Kingdom, and both are a clear advantage. However, a way must be found to ensure that direct first-hand knowledge of Northern Ireland is taken into account while legislation is being prepared, and not just when it has reached its finished state. I hope the Minister, who is still missed in our committee, will give us a reassurance on that point.

Windsor Framework (Democratic Scrutiny) Regulations 2023

Lord Jay of Ewelme Excerpts

Wednesday 29th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Morrow (DUP)]

My Lords, we joined Europe as one identity. Why are we not leaving it as a single identity? Are our votes not important any more?

[Lord Jay of Ewelme (CB)]

My Lords, the Windsor Framework is a compromise between the United Kingdom and the European Community. As with all compromises, neither side gets everything it wants. But it seems to me that, although the Windsor Framework is not perfect, it is a distinct improvement over the original protocol. The Stormont brake we are debating is an essential part of the Windsor Framework. It, too, is imperfect, and, despite the explanations of the Government and the Minister this afternoon, it is not clear to me exactly how it will work in practice.

Among other things, it will need the European Commission to provide the British Government with the right information about legislative proposals in good time, and it will need the British Government to pass the right information to the Northern Ireland Assembly in good time. “In good time” must surely mean “before EU legislation is set in store”, so that Northern Ireland concerns can be taken fully into account when it really matters. Could the Minister confirm that that will be the case?

Can the Minister also confirm that the Northern Ireland institutions will be strengthened to enable them to carry out the proper scrutiny under the terms of the Stormont brake? That will help the committee on the protocol, and now the Windsor Framework—which it is a great privilege to chair—in our current examination of the Windsor Framework, including the Stormont brake. The committee looks forward to hearing from the Foreign Secretary shortly on that subject.

Therefore, the Windsor Framework is not perfect, and neither is the Stormont brake. There is much still to examine, and they will both, no doubt, evolve. But the great advantage of the Windsor Framework is that it not only proposes a potential solution to the intractable problems of the protocol but opens up the prospect of a constructive relationship with the European Union and its member states, and a less fractious relationship with the United States. Those are important gains that will benefit the whole of the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland.

I note that, although the polls must be taken with caution, they suggest that majority opinion in Northern Ireland is in favour of the Windsor Framework. On the other hand, history teaches us that policies introduced in Northern Ireland without the support of all main communities may not lead to the stability that Northern Ireland needs and craves. I hope the Government can square that circle.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, a plethora of issues between the UK and the EU are currently unresolved and in cold storage due to the impasse over the Ireland/Northern Ireland protocol. If resolved, many, if not all, of these issues would give mutual benefits to both sides. The trade and co-operation agreement has 24 committees, one of which is the very powerful Partnership Council, which would approve the output of the other 23, which are staffed not by politicians but largely by officials. The agendas and minutes of those committees are public, and I have observed before that they are operational but not really operating, held back by the cold hand of the protocol impasse.

I cite one example in particular: Horizon Europe. The European Affairs Committee has been active in trying to persuade the parties of the mutual benefit of co-operation in science, research and innovation—in short, that Horizon was a win-win for both sides. In response to the committee’s March 2022 letter advancing this point, respected EU Commissioner Gabriel wrote, in April last year, that

“the current political setting of this relationship should be recalled: there are at present serious difficulties in the implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement”.

She went on to discuss the impasse:

“We look forward to a prompt resolution, and to the enhanced cooperation in research, space and other areas with the establishment of the association to Union programmes, including Horizon Europe.”


This is a polite, frank and clear expression of the wider impasse effects.

While our sister sub-committee, the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland Sub-Committee, is looking at the specifics of the Windsor Framework agreement and is in the process of taking evidence, as my noble friend Lord Jay laid out very clearly, the European Affairs Committee has for a long time been well aware of the wider benefits to both sides that would accrue from the resolution of the protocol impasse. It is in that spirit that I fully support the statutory instrument and will vote against the fatal amendment.

Finally, can the Minister inform the House of what discussions are currently under way about the accession to the Horizon Europe programme?

Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland

Lord Jay of Ewelme Excerpts

Thursday 3rd March 2022 Grand Committee

Asked by

[Lord Jay of Ewelme]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland on recent political developments in Northern Ireland.

[Lord Jay of Ewelme (CB)]

My Lords, our minds and that of the Foreign Secretary are, inevitably and rightly, focused on Ukraine at present, but we also need to debate other issues that matter greatly, including Northern Ireland and the protocol, which have their own rhythm and timetable—not least, of course, their electoral timetable—so I am delighted that we are debating the protocol this afternoon.

It is an honour to chair the sub-committee on the protocol in your Lordships’ House. It is not all that long ago that the noble Lord, Lord Caine, as a member of that sub-committee, was interrogating the noble Lord, Lord Frost, as the Minister with responsibility for the protocol. I am delighted that they are both taking part in this debate, and I look forward to discovering shortly whether their change of roles has led to a change of views.

I should also be grateful if the Minister could say to the Minister of State at the Foreign Office, James Cleverly, that the sub-committee, and I as its chair, look forward to his involvement with it over the next few weeks and months. The sub-committee on the protocol has in its membership Members of your Lordships’ House who have long-standing experience of and involvement in Northern Ireland and are actively engaged in its politics. I am glad that a number of the sub-committee’s members are taking part in today’s debate.

The sub-committee has tried not to reach a view on the merits of the protocol, on which there are different views, but to consider what the effects of the protocol are so far and what they might be, were it to be implemented in full. Nevertheless, the effect of the protocol on the political scene in Northern Ireland is plain for all to see, hence today’s debate.

The sub-committee on the protocol has six core tasks. The first is document-based scrutiny of EU legislation applying to Northern Ireland under the protocol, and over the past year we have written nearly 100 detailed letters to government departments on nearly 50 EU legislative documents applying to Northern Ireland. The second is scrutiny of the implications of domestic UK legislation and policy for Northern Ireland; we wrote to the Minister concerned at about the time of Second Reading and have recently written on the implications for Northern Ireland of the Subsidy Control Bill, the Nationality and Borders Bill and the Elections Bill. The third is scrutiny of the UK-EU bodies relevant to the protocol, including the Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee, which met most recently on 21 February. The fourth is reviewing the impact of the protocol on UK-Irish relations, which has included meetings with the committees of the Oireachtas. The fifth is interparliamentary dialogue, including with the Northern Ireland Assembly; I stress here how much the sub-committee has appreciated and valued our interactions with the Assembly and with the Northern Ireland Executive. Finally, the sixth is monitoring the protocol’s political and socioeconomic impact on Northern Ireland, to which today’s debate is particularly relevant.

The sub-committee agreed an introductory report on the protocol last July, and we have since scrutinised individual aspects of the protocol against the backdrop of the continuing talks between the Government and the European Commission. We have written to Ministers on, among other things, medicines, the rights of individuals and the potential role of the European Court of Justice. We are now completing a report on the importance, in relation to Northern Ireland, of proper parliamentary scrutiny of European legislation. All members of the sub-committee are concerned at the application of European legislation to Northern Ireland without Northern Ireland or Great Britain having the chance to comment effectively before legislation is agreed.

In the course of this work, we have spoken to, among others, commercial interests in Northern Ireland, experts from the pharmaceutical sector in Great Britain, shipping interests, the Equality Commission for the Northern Ireland, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission and academic experts from a wide spectrum of political views. In a recent seminar, we also spoke to stakeholders from Northern Ireland and Dublin. One inescapable conclusion I have drawn from these contacts is that the protocol is already having an effect. The coming into effect of some aspects of the protocol, particularly on agricultural and veterinary products, has of course been put back but, in other fields, legislation is being passed by the European Union that is having or will have a marked impact on different sectors of life in Northern Ireland.

It is clear, too, that the protocol is affecting economic activity. For example, trade flows between Northern Ireland and Ireland are increasing. To some, this is a sign of the advantages of the protocol and a welcome consequence of Northern Ireland remaining in the United Kingdom’s single market at the same time as remaining a member of the European Union’s single market. To others, it is a matter of serious concern, adversely affecting businesses in Northern Ireland and Great Britain, for whom the extra bureaucratic burden of the protocol is just too great and leading to a diversion of trade that may justify the invocation of Article 16. Views differ, but the impact of the protocol is clear.

So it is not surprising that the protocol will be an important issue in the Northern Ireland elections on 5 May. Personally, I am glad to note from the communiqué of the Joint Committee’s last meeting that discussions between the British Government and the European Commission will continue, at least at a technical level, in the meantime. However, for an agreement to be reached, whether now or in future, clearly there will need to be—I deliberately put this neutrally—movement on both sides. My question for the Minister is simple: does he think that an agreement is achievable? If so, what is his best guess as to timing? I look forward to the debate.