Greater London Authority Act 1999 (Amendment) Order 2012

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Grand Committee

I hope the Committee agrees that this measure, modest as it may seem in some ways, opens up genuine possibilities for public health across London that would not otherwise be available unless and until we are able to introduce primary legislation that Parliament approves. I am happy to commend the order to the Committee.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Howe, for explaining the intention of the order to the Committee. I declare an interest as chairman of an NHS foundation trust and as a consultant and trainer in NHS and health issues. As the noble Earl explained, this will enable the GLA to spend money on improving or protecting public health in Greater London. It has a specific relevance to the London Health Improvement Board, and is consistent with the enhanced role to be given to local authorities in the rest of England and in the London boroughs. We believe that local authorities can make a major contribution to public health and support the general thrust of the order.

The case the noble Earl put forward for a pan-London approach to public health is persuasive. My understanding is that—as he said—it will tackle the major health problems in the capital, including cancer, childhood obesity and alcohol abuse. I particularly note the comments of Dr Simon Tanner, NHS London regional director of public health, who explained that:

“Health issues in London are both complicated and specific to the city. The capital’s biggest health problems such as obesity, cancer and alcohol abuse are often interrelated and cannot be tackled in isolation”.

On behalf of the NHS, he said,

“we want to draw on the diverse skills and experience we have to tackle these areas through the London Health Improvement Board”.

This clearly receives support from the NHS, as well as the London boroughs and the GLA.

I listened carefully to the noble Earl’s explanation of the relationship between the London boroughs, the GLA and the improvement board. He was careful to make clear that the London boroughs are the principal public health bodies for London. In essence, the LHIB will depend on the support of the London boroughs to be able to take the necessary action. I entirely understand that, but I will ask the Minister a question. He mentioned the issue of campaigns. He said that it would be much better to co-ordinate a public health campaign across London, and that the board could have an important role to play, which is self-evident. However, I imagine that it would depend on all the London boroughs signing up to a particular programme and committing a budget to it.

What will happen if the board is not able to get all the London boroughs to join a campaign? When statutory legislation is brought to Parliament, will it enable the board to take account of that in some way? Presumably, one would not want one borough to be able to veto an action that all the others had agreed to. I would be grateful if the noble Earl would also indicate when he thinks legislation will be brought forward to put the board on a statutory basis. I do not know whether it will be primary or secondary legislation. It would be helpful if he could explain that, too.

My final question is slightly outwith the issue, but I hope that the noble Earl will not mind me asking it. We are all agreed that local authorities, whether inside or outside London, should have a stronger role in public health. The appointment of a director of public health by first-tier local authorities, and the establishment of public health departments in those local authorities, is clearly very important. Noble Lords will be aware that there has been concern in the public health community about the extent to which the ring-fencing of budgets will actually hold. If the noble Earl is not able to explain this, perhaps he might write to me in due course.

I am also picking up some concerns that local authorities are being less than sensitive to the debates that we had on the Health and Social Care Bill about the status of the director of public health and the right of direct access to the local authority chief executive. I realise that local government structures have changed since 1974 and that direct access for the DPH could present some problems to local authorities, but it is widely accepted within government that the Chief Medical Officer must have direct access to the Prime Minister and senior Ministers—for obvious reasons in view of the importance of that office. Surely the same applies at local level.

There are some signs that local authorities have not taken that message on board. It would be a great pity if local authorities, almost at the starting gate of assuming greater responsibility, did not recognise the need to ensure that public health has a very strong voice at the top table. Frankly, local authorities are on trial. There is no guarantee that the arrangement will stay for ever if they are not able to accept the responsibility that is placed on them. I realise that this matter goes slightly wider than the order, but any words of comfort would be much appreciated.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, for his support for the order. He asked me a number of questions. First, he asked whether, if the London borough councils cannot unanimously agree on a plan, that would affect their ability to commission services from the GLA or through the board. The board can and will be able to deal with the boroughs individually if necessary. The draft Bill that we are bringing forward will make clear in primary legislation how the board will agree plans on a statutory basis. For example, if a group of boroughs wished to get together, excluding other boroughs, there is no reason why they should not do so and commission the GLA to deliver services solely on their behalf.

As I said, the establishment of the board as an NDPB will require primary legislation. Unfortunately, I cannot tell the noble Lord when that will be brought forward, but the draft legislation will be published soon. We published baseline allocations based on the NHS spend for public health, and our intention is to move gradually to a more needs-based formula over a period of years. To move more suddenly would prove destabilising, as I am sure the noble Lord appreciates. That addresses his point about the ring-fencing of budgets, and whether they will hold. I was not aware of concern about that. Of course, some boroughs wish that they had more money than they do, but it is necessary to start from a logical place, and we believe that the baseline allocations reflect current reality.

I was concerned to hear what the noble Lord said about the status of directors of public health and the extent to which they will or will not have access to their respective chief operating officers within a local authority. I will take that concern away with me, and I am grateful to him for flagging it up. If there is anything I can say to him in writing, I will be very happy to do so.