Immigration Bill

Lord Hope of Craighead Excerpts

Tuesday 15th March 2016 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Hope of Craighead]

73: Clause 40, page 31, line 20, at end insert—
“( ) Regulations under subsection (2) which relate to Scotland may only be made with the consent of the Scottish Parliament.”

[Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)]

My Lords, this amendment seeks to introduce a new paragraph into Clause 40. I will speak also to Amendment 140, which raises essentially the same point in relation to Clause 68. With both these amendments I seek to introduce a provision to the effect that the regulations referred to in those clauses which apply to Scotland may be made only with the consent of the Scottish Parliament.

Before I develop the reasoning behind these amendments, I owe the Ministers an apology for not having raised this issue in Committee. I am afraid that frankly I did not notice it until we reached this stage. It was prompted by the debates which took place on the Scotland Bill, to which I shall refer in a moment, which raised a point which bears on the significance of the legislation in this Bill which I am seeking to deal with.

I should add that the same point arose in relation to Clause 34. I tabled an amendment earlier on Report but, due to other business as Convenor, I was not able to attend and could not move it. In a way, it does not matter, because the point was essentially the same. Because of the way in which the Bill is framed, one point links all three clauses in the same way.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bates]

I certainly give an undertaking. All the correspondence is there, in a trail to the noble and learned Lord, stretching back to August. I shall make sure that that is all with the noble and learned Lords by the end of the week, so they have time to consider that for next week.

[Lord Hope of Craighead]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his reply, which has helped to clarify matters to some extent. Rather like the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, I emphasise that I do not seek in any way to criticise the intention behind the legislation, particularly in regard to children. It is a very important matter, and no criticism is intended on the intention to extend these provisions to Scotland and, no doubt, to the other devolved institutions so that the same protection for children is available. That is absolutely understood—and I understand the immigration policy impetus behind wanting to extend the legislation with regard to residential tenancies to the devolved areas as well. But it is a curious feature that the way in which this will be sought to be done, which is fairly plain from what is being done in England and Wales, is by amending Scottish legislation. It is all very well to say that this is a reserved matter because it deals with immigration, but you cannot get away from the fact that the areas in which legislation requires change are in devolved matters. That is why the relationship with the Sewel convention is very important.

I have always been a little puzzled as to how the Sewel convention extends to discussions between Ministers, and I was very glad to hear that that dialogue has been taking place. In a way that is just as effective—perhaps even more effective—than having a matter before the Scottish Parliament for its consent, because it is a far more constructive dialogue, which can be begun early and help to frame the legislation from an earlier stage. That is not the Sewel convention as expressed in the Scotland Bill, but it is a useful way in which to communicate, which I welcome very much, and I am glad to hear that it has been going on. But there is still the Sewel point, which requires attention, because of the fact that the Scottish legislation is in the target for the statutory instrument.

The noble Lord, Lord Wigley, mentioned the Henry VIII aspect of the provisions, which requires explanation, because it is very wide-ranging. The power is to,

“amend, repeal or revoke any enactment”—

that is, any

“enactment contained in, or in an instrument made under, an Act of the Scottish Parliament”.

There has been no attempt in this legislation to focus on the Scottish legislation, which is quite easily identified, which requires amendment. It would have been more helpful if the Bill had been framed in a way that made it clear which particular statutes required amendment, or at least the areas of law that we are dealing with, instead of having a wide-ranging Henry VIII power to, as it were, demolish all the legislation embraced in these very broad phrases.

I hope that when the Minister writes, he can explain a little more what is intended and what has taken place to reassure people about this. From what he has been saying, I take it that it is not intended that this Bill should go before the Scottish Parliament for a legislative consent Motion. Nor do I think he is suggesting that the instruments themselves should go before the Scottish Parliament; I do not see how they could. But no doubt there are people in Scotland who are listening very carefully to what is being discussed in relation to this matter, as there will be in Wales. It is therefore very important that the matter is fully clarified. I hope that we do not have to come back to discuss it more on Third Reading, so I look forward to what the Minister is going to tell us in writing. I see that the Minister would like to say something.

[Lord Bates]

Very briefly, I just want to clarify, to manage expectations here. What I have undertaken to provide by Monday for the convenience of the noble and learned Lords are copies of the correspondence, which are already in existence, to aid that part of the discussion. With the very hard-working constitutional lawyers and cross-government committees necessary to sign off on such communications, we might be able to generate that by Monday—certainly as soon as possible. But those letters to which I referred will be with the noble and learned Lord before the end of the week.

[Lord Hope of Craighead]

My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister. I fully understand the problems due to a shortage of time and will look forward to what can best be achieved. For the time being, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 73 withdrawn.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Redfern (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly and to the point to Amendment 84. It would significantly undermine the Government’s ability to enforce immigration controls and maintain public safety, which is paramount. In the current climate of high migration and growing security threats, I am sure that noble Lords would agree that we need to consider very carefully any measure that could undermine public safety. Although the amendment would not apply to the time limit for certain foreign national criminals, who have knowingly broken immigration laws, these individuals would be able to rely on being released by continuing to obstruct removal.

It is important to note that, based on current behaviours, a large majority of those currently detained would be likely to take advantage of the time limit. This would seriously undermine the legitimate operation controls and pose an unnecessary threat to the public. It would add a further strain on resources, create more bureaucracy and waste time and taxpayers’ money on unnecessary paperwork and legalities. It is in everyone’s best interests to have an asylum system where decisions are taken quickly and effectively, but not because it is rushed.

When we deprive someone of their liberty, that decision should never be undertaken lightly. As a country, we should be proud that we take our duty of care very seriously when individuals are detained.

[Lord Hope of Craighead]

My Lords, I shall make a very short point about proposed new subsection (2) in Amendment 84, and in particular the word “exceptional”. This is simply a power in the tribunal to extend the period. To introduce the word “exceptional” is, I would have thought, unnecessary and perhaps unduly restrictive. The phrase,

“on the basis that the … circumstances of the case require extended detention”,

I would have thought, sets a sufficiently high standard for the tribunal to work to. Of course, the shorter the period—if the Government are minded to introduce a fixed period—the more important it is that the word “exceptional” should not be there, for the reasons that others have mentioned. So I suggest that that word requires very careful thought. I would rather it was not included in the proposed subsection.

[Lord Hylton]

My Lords, having spoken on this subject at Second Reading, and having visited two removal or detention centres more than once, I support what the noble Baroness, Lady Lister of Burtersett, was saying about the categories of people who should never be detained. I draw particular attention to those with serious mental health issues or post-traumatic stress. Surely, if they are at risk of injuring either themselves or other people, they should not be in these detention centres. They should be in secure psychiatric wards. So I hope that the Government will take very seriously what the noble Baroness was saying.