Small Charitable Donations and Childcare Payments Bill

Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 12th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts (Con)]

My Lords, this is a money Bill, so the horse is off down the road before we even have sight of the stable door, let alone a chance to bolt it. Nevertheless, it is a good Bill and certainly has my support. I shall focus my remarks on the charitable section. It is a good Bill for the charitable sector for two reasons. First, it simplifies the 2012 Act. Those of us who had the pleasure of seeing that pass through your Lordships’ House—as I recall it, the noble Lord, Lord Newby, was the coalition Minister in charge of it—drew attention to some of the complexities, which the Government are now addressing. It is important to place on record one’s thanks to the Government for having honoured their commitment to have a three-year review and coming forward with the result we have before us tonight.

Sometimes calling it the gift aid small donations scheme can confuse people because it is not gift aid. Gift aid is related to the donor’s ability to pay tax; this is a pure top-up. You just get additional money from the Government for raising a certain amount of money. That is an important distinction which sometimes gets lost in translation.

There are a handful of points I would like to make. First, I congratulate my noble friend and the Government on the simplification of the means for being registered for this and on the fact that you no longer have to be in existence for two years or to have claimed gift aid in at least two of the previous four years. This is self-evidently of huge importance to new charities struggling to get going. It is a very welcome step forward. However, the 25% or thereabouts take-up remains disappointing. It is hard to know exactly why this is happening. Partially, it may be the complexity and partially it may be ignorance of the scheme among smaller charities; I will come back to that in a moment, but this is a welcome development.

Less welcome is the continuation of the 1:10 ratio—the need for £1 of gift aid to access £10 of top-up—which obviously involves a lower level of record-keeping or no record-keeping. One of the challenges to charities, particularly small charities, is the moving ratio. You have to keep your eye on how much you have in each of these two pots in order to be able to claim the top-up. One does wonder whether it would not have been simpler to have a fixed amount. Under the present regulations, the maximum you can claim I think is £8,000, so you have to find gift aid of £800 to justify it. Do we really need to keep that ratio constant throughout, or would it be easier to have a fixed amount, say £250 or £300—I do not know what number, but some smaller amount—that you have to reach and then you are free to claim the full amount or any amount up to the full amount without further ado, further inquiry and further record-keeping? I suspect that what the Revenue is really concerned about is being able to convince itself that the claimant—in this case the charity—is a proper operation. Therefore, so long as a reasonably substantial sum of gift aid is being claimed—one could discuss what that would be—the Revenue should not be concerned about the amount, particularly given that there is a cap on it in any case. It would be able to see that there was a bona fide charity making the claim.

Thirdly, also disappointingly, a matter much discussed in Committee in the other place was the type of donations that qualify. I am sure my noble friend will put me right if I am wrong, but as I understand it, cash and contactless payments qualify, while cheques and text donations do not. I find this quite a hard distinction to justify. Arguments that a cheque writer can be contacted to fill in a gift aid form show, in my view, a touching faith in our fellow human beings. People will just not bother, and perhaps I can give the House an example.

One of the reasons that charities do not merge is the problems with standing orders. When a charity disappears, the standing orders in its name have to be re-signed in the name of the new entity. The banks will not accept standing orders to the old charity, even though it can be proved that it had merged perfectly satisfactorily and that everything was above board, blessed by the Charity Commission and so on. It has to be re-signed and readdressed. The failure rate of re-signing is about 85%, since you write to people, they do not bother to write back and gradually the whole thing falls away. I strongly suspect that in this case, where you are having to write to people and say, “Thank you for your cheque; we are very grateful, can you please sign this additional gift aid form?”, nothing will happen at all, or it will happen only in a small minority of cases. If this is the case with cheques, for which there is a certain degree of effort in terms of finding a stamp, finding an envelope and writing the cheque, for a text donation, which you do on impulse—you are sitting watching a programme, you are moved by what you see and you think, “This is a terrible thing and I am going to text a donation”—the idea that you can be followed through to get the gift aid is slightly fanciful. In particular, there is an £8,000 limit, so the danger of this thing running away with the Revenue is quite small. I hope that the Government will think about that aspect and some of the weaknesses in the present approach.

My noble friend made an important point on the issue of low take-up. Clearly, ignorance and lack of knowledge and sophistication among smaller charities mean that quite a lot of them do not know about the availability of the scheme. Those of us here who are involved in the National Citizens Service Bill were mildly—I will put it no higher—surprised at the emergence of the Revenue as a recruiting sergeant for the National Citizen Service. There is nothing wrong with that, but as various Members of your Lordships’ House said, a brown paper envelope from the Revenue usually has bad news rather than something that is likely to encourage you to participate. But if we are going to use the NCS model again, and if the Revenue is going to be open-minded and even-handed about it and publicise the scheme through its network to those small charities that they are aware of, that is a very welcome development, and the Government ought to be congratulated on it.

To conclude, this is a good Bill, and the Government should be congratulated. Your Lordships’ House can do nothing about it anyway, but I hope that the Government will think carefully about the possible changes and improvements that I and no doubt other noble Lords will wish to suggest. Perhaps we can persuade my noble friend to follow the noble Lord, Lord Newby, and promise us a review three years from now, in which case I look forward to seeing Members of your Lordships’ House again in 2019.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Young of Cookham]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all those who have taken part in this short debate for their contributions and for their broad support for the objectives of the Bill. I have noted, and will touch on, some of the very helpful suggestions that have been made.

One of the questions was when there would be an opportunity to have another look at the scheme. All tax policy remains under constant review, and the scheme we are discussing is no exception. In addition, HMRC publishes a national statistics package every year, providing a wealth of data, including the total amounts claimed under the gift aid and small donations schemes. This transparent approach allows interested parties to monitor the take-up and effectiveness of charitable tax reliefs constantly. But all suggestions made during the debate will of course be looked at by the Ministers and officials who have responsibility for taking this important policy forward.

Quite a lot of the comments were focused on the link between the small donations scheme and gift aid. There are a number of arguments for nudging people towards gift aid wherever possible. First, the gift aid scheme is not cash limited, whereas the small donations scheme is, so the more people can put on the gift aid side, the more people will be outside the cap. Also, with gift aid the charity gets a list of the donors who support it, which obviously does not happen with the small donations scheme. There is also the issue of safeguards against fraud, which I shall come to in a moment.

On the issue of publicity for the scheme, a number of noble Lords commented on the fact that the take-up has not been as high as we, or they, would have wished. As I said, we will publish the scheme, and I take note of the comment by my noble friend Lord Hodgson that publicity should not come in brown envelopes marked “HMRC”, which strike terror into the hearts of most citizens. We should find a more user-friendly way of publicising details of the scheme.

A number of noble Lords suggested that the matching requirement might be dropped. This was raised during the review that the Government undertook. The matching rule was not identified as an issue in the vast majority of responses. Even the charity finance groups and the NCVO’s own call for evidence response acknowledged that only 5% of the charities that they surveyed claimed no gift aid, which does not wholly support the assertion that the matching rule is a significant barrier for most charities. The argument was also put forward that it was excessive and that one way around this would be to have a fixed amount. HMRC requires a regular pattern of gift aid claims to be able to ensure that a charity is and continues to be compliant with the main gift aid scheme. It is a sort of proxy for compliance, having the link between the small donations scheme and gift aid. The organisations continuing compliance with gift aid and HMRC’s ability to check a number of claims is the closest proxy to help to assure compliance under the new scheme. Requiring a number of gift aid claims to be made, which includes the provision of donor declarations alongside claims for top-up payments, increases the protection against fraud and abuse, which I shall come on to in a moment.

The scheme is at risk from fraud. The Government believe that a matching requirement is an important anti-fraud element of the scheme. Even if a charity appears to be compliant for the first few years or with the first claim, changes in charity personnel can affect an organisation’s attitude to compliance, so HMRC will continue to need some evidence on which to base its assessment of the risk that the charity poses in relation to the scheme. There are some unfortunate examples of individuals exploiting charitable status for criminal purposes. In May this year three individuals were jailed for a total of 22 years for defrauding HMRC of £5 million in fictitious gift aid claims; in April three individuals were jailed for a total of 11 years for submitting fraudulent gift aid claims totalling £340,000; and in January two individuals were jailed for a total of five years for attempting to fraudulently claim £500,000 in gift aid from HMRC. This demonstrates that there is some risk of abuse in the scheme.

I was pressed by my noble friend Lord Hodgson to extend the gift aid small donations scheme to include other forms of payment—direct debits, cheques and credit card payments. The aim of the scheme is to allow charities and community amateur sports clubs to claim a gift aid-style payment on cash donations received in circumstances where it is difficult or impractical to collect donors’ details. Giving by cheque means that the donor is giving their details to the charity, and the extra amount of information needed to make a gift aid declaration is relatively small. If it is practical for a donor to write a cheque, it seems reasonable to assume that it is practical for the donor to make a gift aid declaration at the same time. When a charity has an ongoing relationship with a donor, you should use gift aid if at all possible.

[Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts]

My noble friend is doing a splendid job with a brief that is not entirely his. The Revenue always produces these stupendous figures—£5 million here and £5 million there—but we are talking about an £8,000 maximum per charity, so there is a limit to the extent to which bad boys can run away with the ball. I am not asking for a response—just to place on the record that the Revenue is being unfair to my noble friend by talking about £5 million being cheated out of charities when we are talking about a very limited scheme. It was an unfair speaking note that it gave my noble friend.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I take full responsibility for any speaking notes that I deliver. If one looks at some possible structures, you can have a charity with a number of community buildings and each one could claim £8,000—so it is not necessarily capped at £8,000. Depending on the structure of the charity, it would be possible to claim a much larger figure. I take on board the point that my noble friend has made.

Progress is being made on making SMS slightly more user-friendly. SMS text giving is an easy way for donors to give to charity; donors simply send a short code to a six-digit number to donate a set amount via their phone bill. There is an established process for donors to gift aid SMS donations. Following the initial message, a reply is sent to the donor, thanking them for their donation and asking for their name, house number, post code and confirmation that they are a UK taxpayer. If the donor replies with this information, gift aid is added to the donation. HMRC is working closely with the sector and we are introducing new legislation in April 2017 to simplify the process for claiming gift aid on donations made through digital intermediaries.