Deregulation Bill

Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Grand Committee

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, it is vital that any impact on the BBC’s income is well considered before any potential changes to licence fee enforcement come into effect. For this reason, Amendment 78A seeks reassurance that any proposed changes to licence fee enforcement should not take effect before 1 April 2017.

The BBC’s current licence fee settlement is due to expire at the end of March 2017. Having an agreed licence fee settlement has meant that the BBC has been able to plan its long-term budget and programming. Clearly, any prior reduction to this income will impact services and content for all licence fee payers. The reality is that a change in the way that the licence fee is collected may affect the BBC’s income and, without sufficient time to respond to such change, the BBC could be forced into drastic action such as the loss of key programmes or service closures.

If, for example, non-payment of the TV licence becomes solely a civil matter, collection will become harder to enforce and of course evasion will be likely to rise. Utility bill evasion is currently around 10%; if licence fee evasion went up accordingly, it would cost the BBC about £200 million a year. To put that into context, it is similar to the amount that the BBC spends on programming for CBBC, CBeebies and BBC Four put together. The importance of this amendment—which, as noble Lords can see, has cross-party support—is about getting the timing right and ensuring stability for the BBC and licence fee payers to ensure that it continues.

As the Committee has already heard from the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, on 21 October the DCMS launched a review into TV licence fee enforcement, independently led on behalf of the Government by David Perry QC and expected to conclude in June 2015. The BBC has said that it looks forward to engaging with the review. Once it has concluded, its recommendations can be considered as part of the charter and licence fee negotiations. This fits with the timing, as the Government have said that they will start to review the BBC charter next year, ahead of its expiry at the end of 2016 and that of the licence fee settlement in 2017. Ensuring that no changes take place before 1 April 2017 will give all parties a chance to think carefully before taking decisions that could have a huge impact on the future of public service broadcasting in this country. Only when the licence fee penalties are considered in the round can the impact be properly measured and assessed.

It is worth remembering that the BBC was given a commitment by the Government when the 2010 licence fee settlement was signed. They agreed to provide,

“a full financial settlement to the end of the year 2016-17. No new financial requirements or fresh obligations of any kind will be placed on the BBC and/or licence fee revenues in this period”.—[Official Report, 7/11/11; col. 4.]

The amendment ensures that the Government can fulfil this commitment.

As we know, the BBC is independent of government and accountable to the licence fee payer. It is therefore right that any changes to the BBC—a British institution cherished and trusted by audiences—should not be made without the public having had their say. The most effective way of giving the public the chance to contribute their views and decide what kind of BBC they want is to look at the impacts and consequences of the decriminalisation review in line with charter renewal.

Before we think about any possible changes to the licence fee, including enforcement, it is worth noting the popularity of the current system. More than half the public support the licence fee as the BBC’s funding mechanism, regardless of the individual’s age or socioeconomic group or whether they are in a Freeview, Sky or Virgin household. This compares to 17% for subscription and 26% for advertising, and has risen significantly in the past decade.

It should also be noted that 96% of the adult population use BBC services each week and it is therefore right that we take the time to ensure that the funding mechanism is efficient, appropriate and proportionate in the best interests of all licence fee payers. It is also right that any licence fee enforcement is fair to those who are paying for its services. One of the benefits of the current system is the universality it provides in regard to payment and services offered.

The BBC currently costs the licence fee payer 40p a day—rather less than a cup of tea or coffee—and it is able to maximise its revenues by having low evasion rates. We should therefore be wary of any changes that would mean evasion rates rise, as the BBC cannot turn off the TV signal to evaders and those paying their licence fee will obviously suffer from a decease in funding for programme-making. Again, we need to take time to ensure that all possible changes are carefully considered in conjunction with all aspects of the BBC’s remit.

I also point your Lordships to a report produced by the Constitution Committee. The committee expressed concerns in its report that Clauses 59 and 60 were not included in the draft Bill and were not scrutinised by the Joint Committee on the draft Bill. The report says:

“It seems illogical that Parliament should be invited to legislate for a review and at the same time for a possible outcome of that review. If it is decided in due course to change the sanctions regime in respect of TV licence violations, the better course would be to introduce a bill at that point, rather than legislating now by means of a Henry VIII clause”.

I echo the concerns raised by the committee, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Lang, and ask that careful scrutiny be applied to any change made to the current system and that the impacts and consequences be fully considered.

In summary, the BBC is a national institution valued by audiences and admired the world over. It brings huge respect for its contributions to this country. Its independence from government and budgeted funding need to be safeguarded. As the Government’s review concludes in June 2015, assurances need to be put in place to make certain that any potential changes are considered in the round with the charter review and licence fee settlement. I beg to move.

[Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Con)]

My Lords, I support everything that the noble Baroness has just said. I fully support the review, as bringing some evidence to bear on the issue of decriminalising non-payment of the licence fee would be very valuable. I suspect that the review can conclude only one thing on the evidence: that this is a solution in search of a problem.

The debate around the problem with the criminalisation of non-payment of the licence fee is full of misinterpretations and deliberate misinformation. You do not go to jail for not paying your licence fee; you may possibly go to jail if you do not pay the fine when you are caught, for not obeying the court order to pay. I understand that it is the same in the civil courts if you do not pay your council tax. That is a civil offence, and if you are ordered to pay by the court, you can similarly go to jail. I do not see the great difference in decriminalisation.

The idea that the courts are swamped with licence fee avoiders and non-payers is, again, a myth. The average time that is spent dealing with these mostly uncontested cases is 3 minutes and 13 seconds. That will improve, as I believe there are moves afoot to have a single magistrate hearing these cases. Jail seems to be a last resort. That is not based on empirical evidence, but I think it is generally accepted anecdotally that people who end up having to go to jail are people with a long track record of not paying fines and of disobeying court orders. The licence fee turns up as the last straw in the case, and magistrates lose their patience with the individuals.

There is not a problem in that sense. The problem lies in the decriminalisation issue being used by the enemies of the BBC—the commercial and ideological enemies—to move to a point where the BBC has to move to a voluntary subscription or voluntary payment model. That would totally destroy one of the great glories of UK plc and one of the greatest and most recognised international brands in the world— the British Broadcasting Corporation. It would be severely damaged if the Government rushed into some hasty measure such as decriminalising on the pretext of solving a problem which does not actually exist on the evidence. I am confident that the review panel will come to that conclusion.

It is very serious that the Government of the day could consider changing the basis on which the BBC licence fee is collected and its basis in statute ahead of the charter review. That is the obvious and simple process that has been enshrined and which will give everybody an opportunity to take their time and decide what the best thing to do is in this particular case. I fully support this amendment and I can see no reason whatever to expedite the results or any preview of the results of the review ahead of the charter review. This is a very serious matter. Decriminalisation could become a Trojan horse for those who wish to see the destruction of the British Broadcasting Corporation. I hope the Government will give some assurance today, or maybe at future stages of this Bill, that they understand that issue and that they will therefore not move hastily to change anything, other than through the normal process of charter review.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

My Lords, I rise very briefly to support the amendment and what the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, and my noble friend Lord Grade have just said. I agree with him in supporting a review. I will quote David Attenborough, whose words exemplify my view of what our broadcasting system, at the heart of which the BBC sits, has achieved:

“The BBC is in my view one of the most important strands in the cultural life of this country … But what could happen is it is diminished”.

If so,

“it would no longer be the BBC and that would be a catastrophe for the country”.

In order for the BBC not to be diminished, it needs a good licence fee settlement. I thought that the previous settlement was rushed through, and I hope that the next one takes a greater length of time. As the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, said, the BBC needs to be able to forward-plan; it needs to know how much money it has. That is one of the commitments that were made during the previous, rushed settlement. Whatever comes out of this review, it is essential that it should not mean that that commitment is reneged on. The amount of money that the BBC has to use should remain the same until April 2017.

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[Lord Grade of Yarmouth]

My Lords, with your indulgence, perhaps I may correct something: I omitted earlier to declare an interest as an occasional documentary maker for BBC Four. I should also record that there is a bigger audience in this Room than I normally get.

[Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)]

I think most noble Lords who have severe concerns about this clause fear that it stems from some underhand undermining of the BBC by its enemies, and to appease Back-Bench interests. I hope, from what the Minister said earlier, that he can give us full assurances on that: that the national institution that is the BBC, which has wide public appeal and respect, is not going to be foolishly undermined by an inappropriate, hurried action.

Everybody who likes institutions such as the BBC, and who supports the BBC strongly, is in favour of reforming and improving it, because that will keep it and what it does in the public’s favour. We should not be frightened of change, but that change must be considered and phased, and we must stand up for what was originally agreed in the settlement: namely, that there would be no change until 2016-17. If it is done in a considered way, we support it. However, it must not be done in an underhand way.

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Moved by

[Lord Grade of Yarmouth]

80: After Clause 60, insert the following new Clause—
“Copyright in broadcast-
Omit section 73 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (reception and re-transmission of wireless broadcast by cable).”

[Lord Grade of Yarmouth]

My Lords, I first went into broadcasting in 1973 and remained in and out of it over a period of some 40 years. While all around me the industry changed at a breathtaking pace in terms of technology, industrial practices and the ambition of programme content, one thing remained a constant throughout and remains so today—the inability of legislators to keep up with the changes in the sector. I believe that there is an old saying in Whitehall: “Nothing endures like the temporary”. What we have before us today is exactly such a case, which absolutely proves that aphorism.

This clause we are seeking to abolish sits in the 1988 Act and was designed to stimulate in an analogue world the advance and competitive regime of the cable industry. It was deemed at the time that the dominance of the public service broadcasters—I think there were only four channels at that time—would put them in a position to wreck the fledgling cable industry by demanding ridiculous terms in return for carrying the services. Therefore it was a necessary market correction at the time.

That was 1988. We now have I do not know how many possible channels—hundreds and hundreds. The public service broadcasters, who are commercially funded and free-to-air by advertising, are seeing their market being chipped away at by the online market, which is growing at breakneck speed. I can see no reason whatever why the cable and satellite gatekeepers should profit, through this legislation, from the efforts and the investment made in the British creative industries by the public service broadcasters. This is utterly anomalous and belongs in the days of valves and steam radio.

It is interesting to take note of the United States, which has a very developed television market that has a mixed economy of free-to-air, cable and satellite. We have rapidly caught up with that market; I suspect that we in the UK have as developed a market as the United States has. The carriage fees are at the heart of the 1988 Act; we are trying to establish that satellite operators and cable gatekeepers should pay a commercial rate for carrying the public service broadcasters’ services. In the United States, this is common practice and produces some $3.3 billion of revenue each year for those who are investing in content. Among the happy recipients of those carriage fees is Fox Broadcasting, a division of News Corp, which is one of the largest shareholders in Sky, which over here is objecting to the idea that it should have to pay carriage fees—some mistake here, I suspect. This cannot be right.

We have before us a Deregulation Bill, which is the perfect vehicle for getting rid of this anomaly and making sure that the return that is due to those who invest in British content in the UK is forthcoming and that the market is not inhibited by an outdated measure in the 1988 Act that was designed to stimulate a completely different market. It is now penalising the PSBs.

I imagine that one of the biggest gatekeepers in this country, Sky, will say—as indeed I think it has said—that if you are going deregulate on carriage fees and allow commercial negotiation between the public service broadcasters and Sky for it to carry programmes that the BBC and, most particularly, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5, provide, it should be coupled with deregulation of the electronic programme guide, where prominence is an important issue for broadcasters. This is a nice diversionary tactic. While you could possibly say that it comes under a generic term of deregulation, putting the regulation of Sky’s EPG on the same footing as exploiting the investment of British public service broadcasters and failing to allow negotiation of a fair price for carriage are two very different matters. Let us not forget that Sky is a dominant player and gatekeeper—it has some 50% of the market and is in more than 10 million homes now. It has done an amazing job and created new funds to be invested in broadcasting in this country through subscription. However, it is also a service provider—it has its own channels—so there is an innate conflict in being a dominant gatekeeper and a service provider. So it needs to be regulated.

The public service broadcasters have considerable benefits for viewers imposed on them through contract: I am thinking of regional news, prime-time news and all kinds of things that are not commercial that they are required to do in return for their broadcasting licence. In return for doing that, they get some value from the due prominence provisions on the EPG. That is very important not least at the nations and regions level, where nations and regions news is under tremendous pressure from the economics of advertiser-funded broadcasting, which continues to be under threat. So I hope that the Government will not fall for the three-card trick of trying to couple the EPG argument with the deregulation of this section of the 1988 Act.

I look forward to hearing what my noble friend the Minister is going to say in trying to offer some arguments—I struggle to think of any—in favour of not repealing this section. However, if the Minister needs one more argument—just to make sure that we have the full set—I refer him to the fact that, as I understand it, the European Commission has opened a formal infringement procedure against the UK Government, on the basis that Section 73 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 is incompatible with EU law. A formal letter has been sent to the UK Government informing them of this, although so far it is only available to the UK Government. There is, therefore, a serious issue about whether this is compliant—and I can feel the answer floating behind me from the subs’ bench on to the field of play. I look forward to hearing the answer.

It is time that this was booted into touch. Legislative opportunities to repeal creaking, outdated and damaging legislation—as it has transpired—come along very rarely indeed. This is a perfect opportunity to show that the Government are supporting the creative industries and making sure that there is a fair commercial marketplace between the public service broadcasters and the new providers, the new distributors—the cable companies and satellite companies. I look forward to what my noble friend the Minister has to say in support of this creaking anachronism.

[Viscount Colville of Culross]

My Lords, I put my name down to support Amendment 80 because I believe it is in keeping with the spirit of this Bill, which is to strip away regulation and to open up commercial activity—in this case in the television market. The noble Lord, Lord Grade, has explained the restrictions on public service broadcasters created by this antiquated section. The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport acknowledged this in his RTS speech in September, when he said:

“I will be taking a long, hard look at the balance of payments between broadcasters and platforms … I still want to know whether the amount of regulation around these transactions is really necessary”.

He went on to ask:

“Can we take government out of what should be a private matter between two private companies?”.

The broadcasting of PSB channels on Virgin Media draws in extra viewers, adding to the number of subscribers to the platform. However, Virgin does not reinvest in original British content. Obviously it is doing very well from this arrangement. It is charging its subscribers extra for a new set-top box to record viewers’ favourite shows. They are signing up in record numbers, not least to time-shift their viewing of programmes. ITV estimates that 40% to 50% of viewers record its top-value drama programmes, such as “Downton”, and watch them at a later date. Virgin's new set-top boxes even go on automatically to record viewers’ favourite programmes. Not only does Virgin make extra revenue from this service but the commercial stations increasingly lose advertising revenue from the use of these set-top boxes. Guess what, my Lords: when you have a pre-recorded programme, you whizz through the adverts. So the commercial impact—a major source of revenue—is severely diminished.

The absurdity of this arrangement is revealed by the fact that even though the main channels, ITV1, Channel 4 and Channel 5, cannot charge retransmission fees, their digital counterparts, ITV2, ITV3 and ITV4, and E4, can do so, with great effect. If this amendment becomes law it will open up the regulatory system for the negotiation of retransmission fees, not just for Virgin Media but also for other platforms, such as Sky.

Ofcom has in place a regulatory framework left over from the rollout of digital television. It means that the emphasis is on the value of the programme content for Sky and the platforms rather than for the content providers. Surely that should be redressed at a later stage, but your Lordships need to repeal Section 73 first, which will pave the way for a level playing field between the content providers and the platform operators.

It is hard to say how much revenue will be generated for the broadcasters, but the latest report by Morgan Stanley reckons it could provide between £50 million and £100 million in revenue. Those are very disparate figures, but they give us a clue to the huge sums in play. There are clearly concerns that this extra money will go straight into the profits of the broadcasting companies. However, in the MacTaggart lecture this August, David Abrahams, CEO of Channel 4, said:

“I commit, here and now, that Channel 4 will reinvest all of the proceeds of a fair deal back into commissioning more original UK content”.

Commercial television is a very competitive market. If one channel invests in content and the others do not, they will start losing viewers and market share to their rivals.

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[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his amendment, because it has enabled a fascinating debate, the basis of which, I think, is that we all care very much about the creative industries and the public service broadcasting channels. They are of enormous importance to our national life, and there is so much to be done in terms of the economic benefit that they bring to our nation. So the Government come to this with that very much in mind.

Section 73 permits the retransmission on cable of the main public service broadcast channels—it is important to say to my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond that Section 73 applies only to cable and not to satellite platforms. The effect of it is that public service broadcasters are not able to charge cable operators for retransmission of their services.

Section 73 is part of a much wider framework that supports the availability of TV and investment in television programming in our country. A variety of rules and regulations affect the production, availability and the ease of discovery of PSB programming and its relationship with the different platforms—cable, satellite and digital terrestrial television—that carry it. These include the obligations on PSBs to offer their content to all relevant platforms, the rules governing payments by broadcasters for “technical platform services” and the powers for regulators to compel these services to carry PSB content, as well as Section 73. This is an area where many competing interests are at large and must be balanced; namely, those of broadcasters, platforms and, of course, viewers. The Government believe therefore that we should not abolish Section 73 without exploring these interactions within the wider framework of regulation that impacts the balance of payments between platforms and PSBs. That is precisely the approach the Government propose to take.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ford, referred to the Culture Secretary, who has already announced that the Government are going to look at whether the time is right to remove Section 73 of the Copyright, Design and Patents Act, which could allow PSBs to invest more in high-quality content. We believe that, rather than doing so in isolation, we will look at this in the wider context. I am very conscious that now when I think of the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, I must think of “But”. I know that noble Lords would like the Government to accept this amendment, but we think that it is not sensible to do so in isolation. More work needs to be done and we will examine the framework of regulation that governs the balance of payments between broadcasters and platforms. The Government will examine whether the amount of regulation around these transactions is really necessary.

I should perhaps say to my noble friend Lord Grade that my understanding is that the Government are wholly satisfied that this section is consistent with EU law, but I do not think that I can say much more than that at this moment. A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, my noble friend Lord Deben and, in particular, my noble friend Lord Stoneham mentioned the Government’s intentions. They intend to consult by early next year on a proposed approach to Section 73 within the broader framework of the balance of payments debate. We think that that is the right way, given the fact that this matter has complexity. It is not as straightforward as just saying, “Away with this section”. There are intricacies and we need to look carefully at the impact on regulation relating to the must-offer obligations of the PSBs and the must-carry requirements on pay-TV platforms. That is the position and we want to get it right.

I understand that the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, will add another category to his “But” point, but it is for those reasons that I hope that noble Lords will feel that work is about to be put in hand on this area. The Culture Secretary and the Government are serious about ensuring that the work is thoroughly and properly done. For those reasons, I would ask my noble friend if he is prepared to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Grade of Yarmouth]

I am grateful to my noble friend for that response. As a long-term Charlton Athletic supporter, I have sympathy for the underdog on any occasion. Given the score here today—an unexpected own goal from the Opposition Benches, but there you go—there seems to be a widespread body of strong opinion in terms of the list of obfuscations and get-out-of-jail-free cards alluded to by my noble friend Lord Deben and as regards trying to complicate the issue in order to avoid it. It is not a complicated issue.

The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, alluded to public interest and talked about the shareholders of ITV, Channel 5 and so on. I do not know about the figures but if £100 million is sitting somewhere, would he rather that money went to News Corp and Liberty Media than to the shareholders of British companies who control the purse strings of what gets invested under the obligations of their licences to broadcast? I was really shocked by that comment.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

If the noble Lord is going to play that game, he must add another one to his list: make an outrageous suggestion which he could not possibly say no to and then ask him to respond.

[Lord Grade of Yarmouth]

I think that we need to move on. This is a very simple matter which does not need to be complicated in reviews. I am very disappointed that the Government seem determined to let this legislative bus pass by without getting on it and correcting what is clearly an anomaly, an action for which there is widespread support across the House.

In the end, it is a simple matter. If you believe in a free market, in investment in the UK creative industries, in support and competition in regional and national news, and in stimulating employment in areas of the United Kingdom other than London, then the commercial free-to-air broadcasters need to get a fair return, not an unfair return, on the investment and the risk that they take on investment in British production. This section alone prohibits them by law from getting a fair return on their investment. It seems a great shame that a Government who I support and who believe in a properly regulated free market do not seem able to accept the arguments that have been put today from all sides of the Committee. I am sure we shall return to this matter—I look forward to returning to it—and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 80 withdrawn.