Victims and Prisoners Bill

Lord Faulkner of Worcester Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 30th April 2024 Lords Chamber

18:05

Division 4

Ayes: 209

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Labour: 123
Liberal Democrat: 54
Crossbench: 21
Non-affiliated: 4
Democratic Unionist Party: 2
Bishops: 2
Plaid Cymru: 2
Green Party: 1

Noes: 209

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Conservative: 191
Crossbench: 11
Democratic Unionist Party: 2
Non-affiliated: 2
Ulster Unionist Party: 1
Labour: 1
Independent: 1

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, there being an equality of votes, in accordance with Standing Order 55, which provides that no proposal to amend a Bill in the form in which it is before the House shall be agreed to unless there is a majority in favour of such amendment, I declare the amendment disagreed to.

Amendment 119AA disagreed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, I rise to respond to the Minister’s remarks and thank him for his commitment to make conversation available to the victims of the contaminated blood scandal. However, I also express concern that we do not have any clear dates even for the appointment of the chair of the body that is yet to be established in order to begin to provide these compensation payments. These people have been waiting and waiting for decades. They need urgency and speed and I argue that the Minister, in order to win their trust, needs to set out early dates by which they can expect to receive compensation.

I am concerned that victims who have already had access to the derisory compensation programmes that have been made available might not be entitled to the Government’s new compensation programme. I hope I am wrong about that, but I do have some concern. There has been the most appalling neglect of these victims and really quite derisory payments—in so far as anything has been paid to them at all. With those concerns, I thank the Minister for his comments.

One of my concerns is that the regulations must not put a time limit on people making an application for compensation, so I propose that amendment to the House. It is vital that these victims are not penalised if they do not meet some arbitrary deadline. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

I call the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell of Surbiton, who is taking part remotely.

[Baroness Campbell of Surbiton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare an interest as my first husband, Graham Ingleson, died from infected factor 8 in the early 1980s, aged 32. I welcome the Government’s amendments and am really grateful for the significant time the Minister has given me since Committee to understand the concerns of the infected blood community and to look at ways to address them in the Bill. The Government have shown signs that they are listening as we know from the proposals before us, including provision for interim payments. As we heard in the debate on the Government’s Statement last week, they acknowledge that the community must have a role in the infected blood compensation authority itself, including now, we hear, on the interview panel for the chair.

The Government’s amendments are a good start, but the infected blood community still has significant concerns. For example, the last-minute Amendment 157CA does not go far enough. Other concerns are reflected in the suite of amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Meacher, Lady Brinton and Lady Featherstone. I have added my name to Amendments 119BA, 119CA, 119MA, 119T, 119PA, 119Y, 121B, 121G—now replaced by 121GA— and 121H, and support the intent of the others they have tabled. These amendments would ensure that time limits are introduced to speed up the process, that the chair of the IBCA is a High Court judge or equivalent and that support and assistance for applicants is mandatory.

Time limits are critical to ensure there are no further delays in compensation. There is nothing like a deadline to focus minds. Amendment 119CA requires the scheme to be set up within three months of the Bill becoming law and it is vital that interim payments are made well before that. With reportedly two deaths a week of those infected, they cannot come soon enough. I hear why the Minister wishes to widen the pool of applicants to chair the IBCA and am pleased to hear that some of the infected blood community will be on the interview panel. However, in my view and that of the community, the Government should accept Sir Brian Langstaff’s recommendation for a judge-led IBCA. With horror stories emerging of experiments on innocent schoolboys, rebuilding trust with the community is imperative and only a High Court judge would signal that commitment. Their impartiality and objectivity are unquestioned, with no risk of conflict of interest. It would powerfully reflect the status and credibility of the IBCA, underlining its independence. Amendments 121B and 121G provide for such an appointment.

The infected blood community must be assured they will have the support and assistance they need under the scheme. Amendment 119T amends the Government’s power to secure such support to a duty to do so.