Financial Services Bill

Lord Duncan of Springbank Excerpts

Committee stage & Lords Hansard
Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

I call the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Rooker.

[Lord Lucas (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I am still going—I have a number of other amendments. Is the Committee not hearing me?

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

Please continue—sorry. It was a pregnant pause.

[Lord Lucas (Con) [V]]

Amendment 62 looks at joint debt situations, for instance between a wealthy husband and an impoverished wife where it is the wife who has the breathing space moratorium. Under those circumstances, it is not obvious that the wealthy husband should have the benefit. The amendment therefore asks whether, under some circumstances, the moratorium should not apply to all parties to a debt.

Amendments 63 and 64 are really just opportunities to ask the Government whether this scheme is ready to go. A lot of pressure has been placed on the Insolvency Service and the courts in the course of Covid. Are we actually in a position to launch a working system? If not, should there not be some arrangement to allow delay to ensure that, when the launch comes, it is successful?

Amendment 65 looks at situations where a debtor gets the benefit of a breathing space but then just does nothing and does not engage with the breathing space process in any way. It asks: should there not, under those circumstances, be some incentive—something that the debtor loses by not engaging with the process?

Amendment 66 looks at the situation of a creditor that has taken its debt to the point of commencing legal action and then faces a breathing space process. That is fine, but should not the position that the creditor has got into be finalised so that things can be picked up again afterwards if they need to be, rather than having to be started again at considerable expense to the creditor? Should not the system recognise—[Inaudible.]

I appreciate that these are complicated and detailed amendments. As I said, I would entirely accept written correspondence, and I shall be grateful for anything the Minister says today. However, they reflect an industry that is looking to make a success of both sides of the breathing space initiative but is concerned that some details are not provided for in the regulations as they exist at the moment.

Now I have finished.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

Thank you for the clarification. I call the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Rooker.

[Lord Rooker (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I counted at least three occasions when I thought that the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, had finished his incredibly thoughtful speech as he moved from one group to another. That is not a criticism by any stretch of the imagination, by the way. I will be extremely brief.

My name is on only a couple of amendments: Amendments 52 and 67. I have nothing new to say from what I said at Second Reading. I simply wanted to get my name on the amendments to show the widespread support for the issue raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins. The key amendment in her name—Amendment 67—might be thought to be far too reasonable. If I were the Minister—and I have been in that position—I would accept it, I must say. I would go back and tell the boss that I had to accept it because it would have been made worse on Report—it may well do with another amendment with another date on it—and it would save everybody a lot of time. I did that more than once as a Minister, and it usually turned out okay.

I am very grateful for the work of the Money Advice Trust. This amendment affects what could be millions of people. We are talking about some really serious problems. I was taken by the examples given earlier in the debate on this group by the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond. I fully support the amendment and cannot see why it cannot be accepted now just to tidy everything up so that we do not have to spend more time on it on Report. I am not saying that it is not important but it is likely that, on Report, Ministers will be faced with a different date. I would accept this amendment and run with it. Everyone will be grateful if the Minister does so.

Finally, the Government deserve great thanks for Clause 34. I want to give credit where it is due. I have finished.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Meacher (CB) [V]]

My Lords, along with StepChange and many others working in the debt field, I welcome Clause 34, which I hope will provide some support and protection for vulnerable people with problem debts. I also very much welcome the amendments in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Coussins and Lady Morgan. I will not speak to those amendments, because all the main points have been extremely well made by the two Baronesses. However, I have the permission of the Government Whips Office—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

Baroness Meacher, forgive me, we are about to go into a Division, so if you will allow us to have an Adjournment for five minutes then we will return to your speech.

[Baroness Meacher (CB) [V]]

Okay.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

Get your finger ready for button pressing.

--- Later in debate ---

Amendments 53 and 54 not moved.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

We now come to the group consisting of Amendment 55.

Amendment 55

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

Amendments 72 and 73 not moved.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

That concludes the work of the Committee this evening. The Committee stands adjourned. I remind Members to sanitise their desks and chairs before leaving the Room.

Committee adjourned at 7.24 pm.