Armed Forces Bill

Lord Dannatt Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Grand Committee

I hope that between now and Report we can reflect on this, but I congratulate the right reverend Prelate on tabling Amendment 2 and speaking so eloquently and sensibly about the issue.

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, I rise principally to support Amendment 2, tabled by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Wakefield. I also support Amendments 3, 5, 9, 12 and 13. It seems to me that those amendments get to the person, position and authority required to fully deliver on the Armed Forces covenant.

Despite the best efforts of the Secretary of State for Defence and his predecessors—and of their junior Ministers—who have been charged over the years to deliver what we now know as the Armed Forces covenant, we have not been able to do enough to bring it into balance. On the one hand, the so-called covenant recognises the legitimate work given by the elected Government of the day to those members of the Armed Forces and their predecessors to do what they are required to do in the best interests of the nation, while on the other hand providing for the legitimate needs of individual servicemen and their families—and of their forebears, the veterans. That is why we are at a balance.

Amendment 2 is about a reviewer. That has much to commend it. The others that I referred to are about the ministerial responsibility. The idea articulated particularly by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham—that the Minister should be not in the Ministry of Defence but in the Cabinet Office, and therefore with pan-Whitehall observation and ministerial responsibility for veterans affairs—has a lot of merit. This once-in-five-years opportunity should be seized. There is a mood in the country at present that we must do better for our veterans, and indeed for our current service men and women and their families. Therefore, I ask the Minister to pick up that mood and reflect with other members of the Government on whether this is an opportunity to improve things in the best interests of those who lay their lives on the line for the nation, those who have done so in the past, and their families.

[Lord Patel]

My Lords, I have my name down to support Amendment 11 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar. The comments that the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Stamford, made about the amendment in no way diminish the important point that it tries to make. It is about collecting information relating to healthcare needs “affecting service people”—that is specified by the amendment, and includes families—

“including issues related to access to healthcare”.

There was a clear deficit in access to healthcare by service personnel and their families.

In my time, I have had the privilege to serve on the peer review board, ably and effectively chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Dean, and as a member of the Armed Forces equality and diversity advisory group, and I have come across many service personnel and their families. Being the only doctor on the board it was inevitable that they spoke to me about health issues. There was a clear deficit in access to healthcare by service personnel and their families, and in the kind of care offered to those who suffered injuries and whose surgical repair required long-term care, particularly physiotherapy, to make them fit again. That was absent. To have a covenant that requires the authorities to produce a report that tracks the healthcare needs of service personnel and their families is extremely important. We need a commitment to look after them as they move about. Their usual comments were that they had to join the end of the queue again on the waiting list as they moved from one place to another. The amendment makes a commitment to collect that information. Although the amendment refers to “research” it is not research in the true sense, but collecting information. I do not believe that the amendment would add an extra burden in any way.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, in the spirit of not wanting to be guilty of repetition, I want to speak in favour of these three amendments. They highlight a number of the aspects that this debate is touching on. The amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, looks at the distinctions being made between England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We have heard that distinctions quite rightly exist between the needs of serving service personnel and veterans. There are distinctions between that part of the welfare that can be dealt with by the Ministry of Defence and that which is dealt with by other government departments. Further, there are the things in the defence area that are properly dealt with by the Ministry of Defence and others which are dealt with by the service charities. Whichever way you look, there are lots of distinctions, and we have to agree that the situation is complex.

Complexity does not equate with saying, “This is too difficult so we are not going to address it”, but that there is no simple solution to governmental responsibilities. Ministers in various departments must retain responsibility for those things that are their responsibility, so the issue is finding a solution to the lack of co-ordination and dealing with complexity.

Currently, the Bill provides that, in effect, the Government are being asked to mark their own exam paper. I do not think that is right. We put a question to the previous Government, who chose not to go down the track, which I shall repeat. Would they consider putting in place a reviewer? The right reverend Prelate mentioned this, while earlier in his career the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, was HM Chief Inspector of Prisons. If we had a commissioner looking into all aspects of this, he could bring together the Government, the public, private and the charitable sectors. That would not take away the challenge to the Government of Parliament, but someone would have the responsibility for drawing the threads together and holding all the bodies to account, which would give a comprehensive picture of the myriad dimensions I have described. Perhaps the Government would give this some consideration, and if it cannot be done, perhaps they will give us a cogent explanation of why it cannot be done.