Lord Coaker
Main Page: Lord Coaker (Labour - Life peer)Department Debates - View all Lord Coaker's debates with the Ministry of Defence
(1 day, 9 hours ago)
Lords Chamber
Baroness Rawlings
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the defence implications of balloon incursions into Lithuania for British forces stationed in the Baltic states.
My Lords, for the avoidance of doubt, my son-in-law, as a reservist, has served recently in the Balkans and may well do so again in the future.
Lithuania has experienced over 600 balloon incursions and over 200 drone violations in 2025. It has requested support from a NATO counter-hybrid support team. The UK is the framework nation of NATO’s forward land forces in Estonia. UK forces stationed in the Baltic states as part of NATO’s forward presence remain safe and able to operate effectively. There has been no change to force protection posture for UK personnel as a result of this incident.
Baroness Rawlings (Con)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his comprehensive Answer; he always gives very good answers. Balloons are not just for Christmas or festival treats. Sadly, these balloons can be serious weapons, as we have heard. Can the Minister enlighten us further about the deadly balloon incursions in Lithuania at the moment?
The Lithuanian intelligence is that the vast majority of the balloons in the drone incursions to which I have referred are for criminal activity and relate mainly to tobacco and cigarettes. Of course, that does not alter that Lithuania believes, with some credibility, that this is part of Belarus weaponising that sort of activity in order to destabilise and disrupt Lithuania and elsewhere.
My Lords, have any Royal Air Force flights been affected by these balloons? More serious even than that, this type of activity could become more widespread. What attempt are the Government making to deal with the possibility of further attacks? For example, have they tasked the Advanced Research + Invention Agency with working on this problem?
We are looking at all the various options to deter such activity, as the noble and gallant Lord will know from his own experience. Through Eastern Sentry we have tasked Royal Air Force assets to try to deter right across the eastern flank of NATO. More of that will be done. In January 2026, SACEUR will be announcing further measures that will be taken with respect to that. I point out, as I often do, the importance of deterrents. I am not talking about balloons, but since the introduction of Eastern Sentry on 10 September, there have been no Russian military aircraft incursions into NATO airspace.
My Lords, the media coverage of this universally describes a significant proportion of it being done by Belarus as a proxy for Russia. Last month, Admiral Dragone, the head of NATO’s Military Committee, said that the western military alliance was considering a more aggressive or proactive stance to Russia’s hybrid warfare, which this is. To what extent are we contributing to that process of consideration?
We are contributing to a whole range of efforts to deter Belarus’s activity, or Belarus acting as a Russian proxy. Lithuania and a number of other states have requested a NATO counter-hybrid support team from us. In the next couple of weeks it will work with Lithuania to assess what is going on there and what needs to be done, and to support Lithuania and others, if necessary, in order to deter this activity and respond appropriately.
My Lords, in a normal world, Belarus would be offering co-operation to stop this smuggling, rather than sneering and saying that Lithuania has to solve it. Lithuania has offered €1 million to anybody who can work out how to deal with these balloons. What are we doing, in co-operation with NATO’s centres of excellence in Tallinn and in Helsinki for countering hybrid and cyber threats, to ensure that we can find ways of dealing with the balloons? They represent a threat to the whole of NATO.
I agree with the threat that they represent, and the destabilisation and disruption that they cause. We are doing exactly what Lithuania has asked us to do. It has asked us, with NATO, to send a counter-hybrid team to Lithuania to work with it and establish what it needs to do to deal with the threat from the balloons, and the drone incursions, and find the most appropriate way forward. We are doing exactly what Lithuania is asking us to do within the auspices of NATO.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, I welcome and support the Government’s announcement of support through NATO. I have visited troops in that part of the world, and I know we do a lot of work in the JEF as well. Can the Minister say, particularly with regard to countries in the Balkans, what extra support is planned within the context and framework of the JEF to send a straight signal to Belarus and Russia that the threat from Belarus—we have also seen challenges in the airspace of Poland—will not be accepted or tolerated?
It is an important question, and one that both the previous Government and this Government have sought to deal with. The noble Lord will know that there are 1,000 British troops in Estonia as part of the forward land forces, along with defence attachés and others in support in other JEF nations. The noble Lord will know of Baltic Sentry, the maritime defence in and around underwater cables in the Baltic. So we have forward land forces, Baltic Sentry and, alongside that, the Eastern Sentry, which is the aerial operation. At a land force level, a maritime level and an air level, within the auspices of NATO, this country is contributing to deter Russia and to deal with the threats. We can be proud of what we are trying to do to deter Russia from the activity it is seeking to pursue.
My Lords, as we approach Christmas, I am sure that my noble friend and all Members of the House would wish to thank the members of our Armed Forces and security services, who will be working over Christmas, at home and abroad, to keep us all safe. The Baltic states are on the front line against Russian aggression, and are doing a sterling job through the efforts of not only their armed forces but their populations. What more can NATO partners do to meet the defence expenditure goals that were set at The Hague earlier this year?
I join my noble friend in his congratulations and recognition of our serving Armed Forces personnel and their families who stand behind them. It is important to recognise that, particularly at this time of the year, as my noble friend has just done. I am sure that the whole House joins him in that.
Discussions are ongoing about how we can meet NATO expenditure targets. While those discussions around expenditure and budgets are ongoing, we can point to the many things that we are already doing. This includes through RAF fighter support within Eastern Sentry, the troops that we are committing, maritime support of Nordic Warden, and responding to the request directly from the Lithuanian Government, through NATO, to provide the counter-hybrid support team. Whatever is needed, we will do it. I say again that, in order to stop Russia and the aggression we face, this has to be deterred. As I said to the noble and gallant Lord, since 10 September and the adoption by NATO of Eastern Sentry, there have been no Russian military incursions into NATO airspace. That shows us all the value of deterrents.
The Earl of Effingham (Con)
My Lords, the Royal Navy does a brilliant job of helping to stop smugglers in various parts of the world. If the situation in Lithuania is cigarette smuggling, will the Government consider allowing our forces on the ground to assist with ending the illegal smuggling trade in the region?
We are doing all that we can. Lithuania is telling us that it is cigarettes and tobacco smuggling, in the vast majority of cases, with respect to the balloons and the drones. It sees this as criminal activity. Lithuania is saying to us that the weaponisation of that criminal activity is being used by Belarus, and Belarus as a proxy, to disrupt and destabilise. That is why the counter-hybrid support team, under the auspices of NATO, is going to Lithuania. It is going there to talk about what specifically Lithuania believes is necessary to deter and deal with the threat that it faces. That is the proper way forward.
My Lords, we may be approaching Christmas, but the people of Ukraine will face no peace. Yesterday, the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, highlighted the comments of the head of MI6 and the Chief of the Defence Staff—to which he might have added the Secretary General of NATO—that we are planning for war. This is a clear statement that starts to match the passion that the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, represents in this House every time he speaks about this issue. I wonder why we and our Government are not planning to increase spending on defence in 2030, or increase it again in 2035. Our opponents are doing something now. Is it not time to redress that priority?
The noble Lord will know the Government’s defence spending policy, and he and others will no doubt continue to make the case they do. As we approach Christmas and beyond, and the search for peace in a way that is consistent with what Ukraine would want goes on, this country can be proud of what it is doing with respect to Ukraine. It stood up for the people of Ukraine and defended freedom, democracy and the international borders that international law represents. The noble Lord will continue to press the case for defence spending. But even within the auspices of current spending and the increases the Government have agreed to over the next couple of years, there will be no doubt that we will stand up to Russian aggression and seek to deter it. We will stand with the Ukrainian people in defence of freedom and democracy.