Defence Spending: Scotland

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Tuesday 29th April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Curran]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact in Scotland of increased defence spending.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)]

Scotland plays a vital role in the defence of the United Kingdom from strategic Ministry of Defence sites such as His Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde and RAF Lossiemouth. The new defence industrial strategy seeks fully to harness the potential of these spending increases across Scotland and the United Kingdom, using defence procurement and investment actively to generate wealth, boost export potential and increase and create high-quality jobs.

[Baroness Curran (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for that reply. I know that he is in high standing in the defence sector in Scotland. Will he consider the establishment of a specific, proactive programme of employment within deprived communities to ensure that the benefits of increased investment in the defence industry are shared by all of Scotland?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that suggestion, which I will certainly ask the Ministry of Defence to consider. The increase in defence spending gives us a huge opportunity not only to protect our country better but to generate jobs and increase wealth across the regions and nations of this country. The idea of trying to ensure that deprived communities, particularly in Scotland but across the whole of the UK, benefit from that is something any Government should take seriously, and I certainly will take that back to the MoD.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, it is worth recording that Scotland has around 35,000 defence jobs and 11,000 people in the forces. We are building seven warships, and we have naval and RAF bases. Will the Government consider, in the new defence era, extending the engagement of the entire industrial complex of Scotland, including offshore oil and gas, the energy sector, IT and cyber, to ensure a proliferation of investment right across the economy and not just within the specialised defence sector? On recruitment, would it be worth considering reviving some of our traditional historic defence regiments, such as the Gordon Highlanders?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I will take on board any ideas about how we improve recruitment, and that is one. The broader point that the noble Lord makes about defence investment is very important. Of course, we will continue to invest in the various sites I have mentioned. The noble Lord made a point about the involvement of the whole of business and the community in the new warfare and the new battleground of the future, so of course it will involve the oil industry and the business sectors because they are defending critical national infrastructure—the energy sources for our country. All those things become crucial not only in Scotland but across the whole of the UK. To deliver that, we need a whole society, whole community, whole business effort, which is what the new defence industrial strategy that we will be publishing soon will take on board.

[Lord Rogan (UUP)]

My Lords, defence spending in Northern Ireland lagged far behind the UK average for many years. In the new era of increased national defence spending, what does the Minister believe he can do, alongside colleagues from other government departments, to boost Northern Ireland’s contribution to the defence sector and in so doing potentially create many thousands of much-needed highly skilled jobs?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

Northern Ireland, as with the whole of the UK, including Scotland, will benefit from the increases in defence spending. Just one example of that is the huge new contract given to Thales in Belfast, which will generate a huge number of jobs. When you add not only direct employment at Thales but also the small and medium-sized businesses that will benefit from that, Northern Ireland will benefit from that increase in defence spending as well as other parts of the United Kingdom.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

My Lords, what role does the Minister see Scotland continuing to play in the UK’s ability to monitor and respond to threats in the North Atlantic and the Arctic region?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

Scotland is crucial to the defence of the United Kingdom, but beyond that is the importance of the role that the bases in Scotland play in the defence of, for example, the Arctic and the Greenland Gap. One example of that is RAF Lossiemouth, which is a crucial RAF base for the Ministry of Defence and for the defence of our country. The aircraft based there, such as the Typhoons and the various intelligence aircraft that are there to gather information, are crucial to us. RAF Lossiemouth, along with other such facilities in Scotland, are crucial to the defence of our country.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Just as we heard in the last Question, the SNP Government are prepared to accept nuclear-generated electricity—as long as it is generated in England or Wales. They have also done a U-turn on the independent nuclear deterrent—as long as it is moved down to England. Is there any depth of cynicism to which the SNP Government will not go?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My noble friend is probably more able to comment on the SNP and the SNP Government than I am, but his question is serious and important. It gives us an opportunity to say that the base on Faslane—the nuclear deterrent provided there —is fundamental to the defence of our country. I note that even a former leader of the SNP is now talking about the need to maintain that nuclear deterrent, even if it were to be based in England.

Although the SNP has questioned the continuation of the independent nuclear deterrent, that did not stop it changing its policy in 2012 on being a member of NATO. I remind the SNP, as well as this House, all of Scotland and the whole of the UK, that NATO is of course a nuclear alliance. That provides protection for Scotland, and for the rest of the UK and our allies.

[Lord Walney (CB)]

With reference to the last question, the Scottish National Party is not represented in this Chamber so I am sure it will not mind me speaking about it. Whatever the views of the SNP Government or, indeed, any Administration, on a particular conflict, is it not vital that all parts of this United Kingdom get behind our defence sector? You can consider yourself pro-Israel or pro-Palestine, but to be pro-Scotland you have to back defence jobs in all parts of the UK, including north of the border.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right and makes a very good point. There are some 25,000 to 26,000 defence-related jobs across Scotland and that will increase, I would suggest, with the increased expenditure that we will see. There are RAF, Army and naval bases across Scotland as well, but the important point to make is that the defence of the UK requires the integrated union that we have. That is what people in Scotland and the rest of the country support. The defence of those values is important; it is as important to the people of Scotland, whatever their political persuasion, as it is to the rest of the UK. The noble Lord is right to remind us that the defence of the UK, whether it is Scotland or elsewhere, is of importance to us all.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, I am always happy to talk about the SNP. Because of the SNP, Scotland is now the highest-taxed part of the United Kingdom, with many recruiters having to offer compensatory packages to attract high-calibre personnel to Scotland. Have the Government consulted with our Scottish industry partners on what effect these higher levels of taxation are having on them?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I will check to see whether we have specifically consulted about the levels of taxation, but we will consult with Scottish industry and the broader UK industry about how we ensure that we get the defence industry we need. One of the present challenges is that we need to rebuild our defence industry—to rebuild our steel industry, for example, to ensure that we have the domestic sovereign capability to do the things we will need to do in the event of conflict.

I would say to the noble Baroness, who knows Scotland far better than I do, that shipbuilding efforts on the Clyde as well as Rosyth are seeing huge numbers of ships, with eight Type 26 frigates and five Type 31 frigates being built there. Scotland and Scottish industry should be proud of the way they are contributing to the defence of our country. The Scottish defence industry, as well as the wider UK defence industry, plays a huge role in that.

[Lord Beamish (Lab)]

My Lords, the Royal Navy’s shipbuilding in Scotland is very much dependent on other UK yards for fabrication and block work, for example, so a vibrant shipbuilding industry throughout the UK is important. Does the Minister therefore agree that it is disappointing that the Scottish Government have just awarded the ferry contract to Turkey—work that could have been done in the UK to support UK shipbuilding nationally?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My noble friend raises an important point. We would all agree that this Government need to ensure that, as far as possible, the increases in defence spending benefit UK industry, British industry, and that is what we are seeking to do. We are doing that with the steel industry, and we want to see shipbuilding benefiting from the increases in defence spending. That requires a whole UK Government effort, not only at government level but with all the devolved Governments across the UK working together to ensure that we benefit from this increase in spending.

As I say, the crucial point, which has been brought home to us all, is the ability of this country to rebuild manufacturing, whether it be shipbuilding, steel or other industries, to ensure that we have the sovereign capability we need should we face a crisis. Frankly, this has been a wake-up call that may have come too late for this conflict, but for future conflicts we will ensure that we have capability now rather than at some distant point in the future.