Industrial Action

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Wednesday 11th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister and the Government are being a little disingenuous when they refer to what happens in Europe. I am delighted to follow the noble Lord, Lord Balfe. The fact is that the countries the Minister listed, generally speaking, engage in sectoral collective bargaining, and where there are minimum service levels—if they are implemented at all; it is a moot point whether or not they are—they are within the framework of sectoral collective bargaining. The Minister will know that about 80% to 90% of workers in various areas in other countries are covered by sectoral collective bargaining, but that is not the case here. Will the Minister consider putting in place a structure for sectoral collective bargaining before we move to what is clearly unworkable legislation on this basis? While I am on my feet, perhaps I could ask the Minister to respond to my noble friend’s question about ACAS.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There are not just minimum service level obligations in other European countries, there are outright bans on striking. For instance, there are bans on border security strikes in Germany, Spain, Italy, France and Belgium. We are not proposing to go nearly as far as those countries have in banning strikes in these areas. We are merely suggesting that unions should provide minimum services during strikes. As for consultation, the legislation was drawn up very quickly and in haste. We have not been able to do all the consultation we would like, but noble Lords will be reassured to know that for the actual implementation of the secondary regulations—which will contain most of the detail—we will of course carry out full consultations.

Employment Policies

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Tuesday 6th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord: I do blame the train unions for the strike, because they are the ones who are taking strike action and depriving people of the right to go and see their relatives and loved ones at Christmas.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

The Government’s plan to introduce a minimum service level for transport workers on strike, which reports in the media suggest may be extended to the whole public sector, is clearly a direct violation of Convention No. 87 and more, so how can the Minister claim that the Government are keeping the UK’s international obligations when they plan such egregious attacks on workers’ rights?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness states that something is clearly in contravention; we do not agree with that advice. If she were right, then France, that bastion of liberalism, would not have minimum service level provisions in its domestic law, which it does.

Government Departments: Communication with Industry and Commerce

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Monday 14th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I can give the noble Lord that assurance. We have been engaging extensively with the City of London financial services firms in the development of the related legislation that will shortly be before your Lordships.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, in this Evidence Week, I draw the Minister’s attention to the fact that researchers in the University of Sheffield have shown that, between 1995 and 2015, the finance industry—sometimes referred to as the City of London—made a negative contribution of £4,500 billion to the UK economy. Have the Government investigated this, and will a report be published on it?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The short answer to the noble Baroness’s question is no. I have no idea what she is talking about or indeed where she has got the figures from. The last figures that I saw showed that the financial services industry—which is not just in the City of London—contributes tens of billions of pounds to the UK economy. The noble Baroness and her friends are always talking about more public expenditure and the need to spend more in every sector. Somebody has to earn that money, and one of the principal earners for the UK is the City of London. We should be proud of the contribution that it makes.

Winter Heating Initiatives

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course, the rate of VAT has already been reduced on some energy-efficiency measures, but my noble friend makes a good point and I will be sure to convey it to the Treasury.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister recognises that the cost of energy is having a very bad effect on education budgets in schools. I hope he will be liaising with whomever ends up at the Department for Education to see what can be done to ensure that schools are properly heated, as cold children cannot learn and cold teachers cannot teach.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a powerful point. I point to the public sector decarbonisation scheme, for which I am responsible, which has already rolled out billions of pounds’ worth of improvements to all our public buildings to help make them more energy efficient.

Fire and Rehire

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Wednesday 15th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very important point. He has long experience of industrial relations. It is almost as if these strikes were specifically designed to make life as inconvenient as possible at some of the worst times of the year for the travelling public. That is unacceptable. They should think again, and I hope the Labour Party will join us in urging the trade unions to think again.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, clearly the strikes are designed to make sure that those workers who worked extremely hard during the pandemic, and work very hard all the time, achieve decent wages and conditions, but does the Minister agree that, by failing to outlaw fire and rehire as a negotiating tactic, the Government are giving the green light to bad bosses to exploit workers?

Employment Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Wednesday 6th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I have heard what my noble friend has said, and I know the close interest which he takes in these matters and his close relationship with the trade unions. I will certainly take his message back to the department but, as he will be aware, I cannot predict what may or may not be in the Queen’s Speech.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, the all-Peers letter to which my noble friend Lord Hendy has already made reference contains an excellent proposal to ask European ferry operators and unions to agree a common level of seafarer protection on European ferry routes. Will the Minister undertake to consider legislation to achieve such sector-wide collective bargaining at national level too—as was recently implemented in Spain and proposed in New Zealand?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Part of the problem with P&O is that the ferries were registered in another European country, so presumably it was applying European law in those circumstances. Clearly there is an issue with ferries, which by their very nature cross borders, and I know that the Secretary of State for Transport has announced nine measures, including minimum wage requirements for seafarers operating from British ports. He will want to take those issues forward as fast as he can.

Trade Union (Levy Payable to the Certification Officer) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Monday 7th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, in 2016, I was not yet a Member of your Lordships’ House and I protested on many occasions, very loudly, outside this House at the trade union legislation then going through the processes here. I trust that I shall always be able to protest very loudly outside this House, whether standing still or moving around, when legislation of this type is proposed.

The Minister talks of the valuable work of unions, but the actions of this Government belie that. My noble friends on this side, in particular my noble friend Lord Monks, have talked about the level of constraint and regulation on the trade union movement in this country. From my engagement with trade unions across Europe, both east and west, I know that to be true. This is therefore a regulation too far. While I do not agree with all the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, I certainly agree with his opening remarks that this is unwarranted and gives rise to the view that this Government are anti-trade union.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for their valuable contributions to the debate. It is great to see the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, back with us in such hale and hearty form. I had the pleasure of replying to the debate when the noble Lord made his maiden speech, so I regard it as a particular honour that I get the chance to respond to him again tonight, albeit in slightly less harmonious circumstances.

Turning to the amendment put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, I thank him for raising his concerns, although, as will become clear, I do not agree with very much of what he said. However, I reiterate what I said at the start: unions play an important role in some aspects of industrial relations and have an important part to play in our economic recovery. It is therefore crucial that the public have confidence that they are regulated effectively and fairly.

These reforms will bring the Certification Officer in line with the powers and funding arrangements of other regulators. They will allow the Certification Officer to take robust enforcement action against an organisation that breaches its statutory obligations. The reforms will ensure that the taxpayer no longer has to pay in full for the regulation of trade unions and employers’ associations. The cost will be borne in part by the organisations that can afford it.

Despite many of the comments that were made, there are many precedents for this: a number of other regulators are funded by a levy. For example, the Groceries Code Adjudicator, the Office of Rail and Road, and the Pensions Regulator are all funded by a variety of levy schemes. The Pensions Regulator uses a banded scheme based on membership of pension funds. Companies House is partly funded by fees from company directors. The Financial Reporting Council is paid for in large part by the auditors that it regulates.

Other regulators also have a range of sanctions at their disposal. The Electoral Commission and the Information Commissioner’s Office, like the Certification Officer, can either take civil enforcement action or launch criminal prosecutions. The Electoral Commission’s compliance notices are similar to the Certification Officer’s enforcement orders. The Electoral Commission also has a range of financial penalties at its disposal, from £200 to £20,000, which mirrors those proposed for the trade union Certification Officer. Those instances are all slightly different, but it is not true that this is somehow something being imposed uniquely on trade unions.

In reply to the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, we have of course considered the affordability of the levy and how much it can grow in the future. As no organisation will pay more than 2.5% of its annual income, and lower-income organisations will be exempted from the levy entirely, I think his criticisms on that were unwarranted and have no validity. As the Certification Officer regulates both employers’ associations and unions, it is fair that employers’ associations also contribute in part towards the levy.

The Trade Union Act 2016 contains an important safeguard that requires the Certification Officer to aim to ensure that the total amount levied over a three-year period does not exceed the actual expenses she has incurred. We believe that this will ensure that the levy remains predictable and affordable. The Certification Officer has always gone about their duties in an independent and impartial way, and of course that will continue.

I will now answer some of the other points raised during the debate. The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and my noble friends Lady Neville-Rolfe and Lord Balfe all raised the issue of electronic balloting. Indeed, the Trade Union Act included provisions to introduce electronic balloting for union elections. A review of electronic balloting was conducted by Sir Ken Knight, but before responding to the recommendations in his review, the Government were required by Section 4 of the Trade Union Act 2016 to consult relevant organisations, including professionals from expert associations, to seek their advice and recommendations. We have now done this, and we are finalising our consideration of Sir Ken’s recommendations before we issue our response in due course.

I have answered many of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, about the comparison with other regulated bodies. I reiterate that the role of the Certification Officer is unique, as is the role of trade unions, and that comparisons with other sectors, while there are some parallels, are not totally relevant.

The noble Lord, Lord Woodley, and my noble friend Lord Balfe raised the possibility of vexatious complaints being made at a cost to unions. I must say, respectfully, that the Government disagree. When there are vexatious complaints, we do not expect that the Certification Officer will spend much time on them. The CO is a public authority, and she has to act reasonably. She cannot appoint an inspector unless a new, higher judicial test has been met that she has reasonable grounds to suspect that a breach of the regulations has occurred.

The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, raised the point about the significant limit on how much the levy could raise in similar years. The noble Lord, Lord Monks, also raised the point that the Certification Officer can somehow just do as she pleases. I responded to that in my previous comments, but we have removed most of the variable costs from the levy and, as I said, the Certification Officer, as a public authority, has to act reasonably, and that is a higher judicial test than in the current regulations.

Lastly, my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe asked me whether USDAW had responded to the consultation. I am afraid I do not have that information with me, but I will ask officials to look through the consultations and write to her accordingly.

In conclusion, this is not about constraining the ability of unions and employers’ associations to do their work. There is, unquestionably, a strong public interest in appropriately regulated trade unions. These reforms are about modernising the Certification Officer’s role to ensure that she can continue to deliver exactly on that. Therefore, I commend these draft regulations to the House.

Non-UK Residents: Property Ownership Register

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Tuesday 2nd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We do support legislation, as I have told the noble Baroness before in this House. Finding time to legislate in recent years has been challenging. My department has been working on complementary forms for Companies House such that when we implement ROBO, and we will, it will be more effective because of the broader powers that Companies House will have.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, a public register of property ownership was promised by the noble Lord’s party in 2016 and consulted upon in 2017. A Bill was promised in 2018, again in the Queen’s Speech in 2019 and at the G7 in 2021. There is still no Bill. Can the Minister please be a little more specific than “when parliamentary time allows”?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I apologise to the noble Baroness, but I cannot. The Government’s legislative agenda is not fixed yet. There are a number of different measures that different departments want to put forward and there has to be a weeding-out process, as all noble Lords who have been involved in government will know.

Employment Rights

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Thursday 10th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her question. She is correct that it would not be right for me to comment on the specifics of the case without being in possession of all the facts, but it is vital that employees do not abuse their sick leave and pay. If they do, the employer may be able to dismiss them on the grounds of misconduct.

There is a vital balance to be struck to protect employers and employees. As the recent judgment shows, employers must act reasonably in all circumstances, follow the right procedures and conduct appropriate investigations. They should look to the ACAS code of practice on disciplinary and grievance procedures and may want to refer to the guidance on dismissal.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, for three bodies to become one, legislation will indeed be required, but there is none. Neither is there any commitment to adequate funding, as my noble friend Lord Lennie said. Specifically, why are the HSE and local authority health and safety inspectors not included in the plan for a single enforcement body? Why is there no commitment to increase the existing pathetically low number of inspectors and, regrettably, the equally pathetically low number of notices and prosecutions?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right: we are not proposing that the HSE become part of the single enforcement body. The HSE is a large, established organisation. Given its size and scope of its functions, and the focus on high-harm incidents, incorporating it into a new body could lead to a shift in priorities away from other employment rights, but we will ensure that the HSE remains a key partner for the single enforcement body. The noble Baroness should be aware that since the start of the pandemic, HSE has carried out more than 243,000 Covid-19 spot checks and responded to more than 22,000 concerns. There are currently around 1,300 workplace spot-checks carried out per day, targeted on those industries whose workers are most likely to be vulnerable to transmission risks.

Hospitality Sector Minister

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Wednesday 3rd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con) [V]]

An unprecedented package of support has been given to the industry; unfortunately it is impossible for us to say at this stage when hospitality and entertainment businesses will be able to open safely and therefore it is impossible to have a road map. We are hoping to set out more details as we go through this month and the data becomes clearer.

[Baroness Blower (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, as I am sure most noble Lords know, the hospitality industry is worth £150 billion a year to the UK economy. This is not counting the wider supply chain. It provides entry-level jobs as well as livelihoods for older workers. With the prospect of foreign holidays receding, this sector could play a major role in the start of a recovery. Therefore, will the Government consider establishing a forum with employers and unions to help secure the future of the sector and a bargaining council composed of Unite the Union and industry representatives to find sector-wide solutions?

[Lord Callanan (Con) [V]]

[Inaudible.]—in new solutions, but I very much suspect that only a small minority of workers in the industry is actually represented by Unite in particular. We have regular meetings with the sector, many of which are small businesses, and I totally agree with the noble Baroness’s point that they will have an important role to play in the recovery.

Gas Boilers and Heaters: Replacement Programme

Debate between Lord Callanan and Baroness Blower

Tuesday 12th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I understand the point my noble friend is making, but we do of course have a legal commitment and obligation to reach net zero emissions by 2050. Of course, 19% of total UK greenhouse gas emissions come from buildings, so we clearly need to take action in this sector. We also marry that up with an ambitious international agenda. We are hosting COP 26 this year and we will seek to persuade our international partners to follow this agenda as well.

[Baroness Blower (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, there are certainly home owners who live in flats on estates that were possibly originally built as social housing, with communal gas boilers and integrated estate-wide heating and hot water systems. Individual solutions will not be possible in these circumstances. Will the Minister say whether any thought is being given to such circumstances to quantify the problem and, if so, what support will be available to replace or upgrade such systems?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I point the noble Baroness to the social housing decarbonisation fund, which will deliver transformational change by upgrading a significant amount of the social housing stock that is currently below EPC up to that standard.