England: Historic Counties

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My noble friend makes that very easy: I even have Russell Grant’s book on historic counties here. He has had a great impact on our department and I am very pleased to meet the all-party group and Mr Middlesex. Yes, I am a proud wearer of a Middlesex tie, admittedly from when I was younger, fitter and svelter. It is very important to consider these issues.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, as one of the Members of this House who was born, bred and still resides in the West Riding of Yorkshire, I assure my noble friend that the Government and the new Secretary of State would be immensely popular across the whole of Yorkshire if they were finally to overturn the vandalism of the early 1970s and restore the territorial integrity and names of the ancient ridings of God’s own county.

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, there is a very strong Yorkshire theme today. The Government proudly flew the Yorkshire flag outside our headquarters to mark Yorkshire Day. That beautiful flag was part of the display in Parliament Square that flew for a week to mark Historic County Flags Day on 23 July. We recognise that people should take great pride in their local identities and we continue to do so, irrespective of the local administrative areas.

Energy Performance of Buildings (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 18th March 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, it is a genuine pleasure to follow my noble friend Lord Moynihan, who has made lots of good points. Some of them relate directly to points that I was hoping to make, so I will not repeat them, but the importance of the building sector in achieving our net zero carbon objectives should not be underestimated. The second largest source of emissions is from buildings.

It is easy for us to focus far too much on the commendable achievements in building net zero carbon homes, but by my calculation, we simply have to recognise that, by 2050, something like two-thirds of the homes we live in will already have been built, so retrofitting and securing energy efficiency in our existing housing stock is absolutely critical. There are government schemes for this purpose, such as the Whole House Retrofit plan related to social housing, and so on.

The scope of these regulations is modest, and I welcome that. I know that we are all grateful to the Minister for explaining the regulations at the outset, but I shall unashamedly take the opportunity to talk about not the price of EPCs but the uses to which they should be put. Far too infrequently are EPCs seen as the spur to energy efficiency improvements that they should be, which is what we are looking for.

On this occasion I will not be drawn into the private rented sector. I know that the Government undertook a consultation in the latter part of last year. I am probably slightly disappointed that, in the event, they were not a bit more ambitious, because the cost-benefit ratio they ended up with suggested that the benefits did not outweigh the costs, but that of course was at the carbon price assumed between now and 2050.

Again, I will not go down this rabbit hole for too long because it is too important and too deep, but we ought to ensure that our carbon pricing is set at a level that forces change. If it is set at that level, it is also one that is likely to deliver substantial benefits in relation to the energy efficiency of buildings and the costs that renters and landlords have to meet.

I come back to the use of the EPC. Two-thirds of the existing housing stock has a rating of D or worse, so we need to effect change. There are government schemes: my noble friend Lord Moynihan is quite right; it is not that there are not schemes. The Government have put money and resources behind grant schemes, but the supply chain and the people influenced by it need these things to be sustained over a considerable period and we need the response to be substantial and positive. I am afraid it is not.

At the moment, even in the last few weeks, we are sitting here saying, “Why are people not taking up the green homes grant?” I think it would be far too easy to blame it on Covid and say, “They do not want people in their homes, understandably, so they are not taking up the grant.” However, it was true beforehand. We have had this with other insulation schemes. It is sometimes as brutally simple as people living in a house not wanting to empty their loft to let somebody up there to put the right insulation in place. They do not want the disruption.

I will put just one point to my noble friend in the hope he will convey it into the right ears across government. Like we do in the private rented sector, focusing on when there is a new tenancy, in the owner-occupied sector we must focus on the moment of sale—when the EPC is given to a potential new owner and they have a period ahead of them when they might reap the benefits of investment in energy efficiency. At that moment, they also are likely to empty the house. They may empty the loft and sometimes they can engineer a short window of opportunity for energy efficiency improvements to take place.

I suggest that, at that moment, rather than a grant scheme which comes and goes and depends on the vagaries of spending reviews, there could be a permanent allowance against stamp duty for energy efficiency improvements up to, say, the value of £5,000 that they undertake—if recommended as a result of an energy performance certificate. Such a scheme could be confined to houses with an EPC of D or worse or, to start off with, those rated F and G, to see how it goes.

I prefer tax incentives to government grant schemes. I prefer tax relief to expenditure. I prefer incentives people can permanently rely on and where they feel they are getting some of their own money back or not having to give their money to the Government. As the tax is targeted on that moment, the incentive can be deployed in that moment as well. I commend that thought to my noble friend.

I know government departments not only hesitate, but will not enter the territory of tax, because it is all the Treasury’s business. But if they have an objective—and there is an objective here—and they think it can best be achieved by working with the Treasury through a tax incentive, I ask that they go down that path.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, has withdrawn, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Addington.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I thank everybody for this short debate in Grand Committee considering the draft regulations and for the many cricketing metaphors, as well as the reference to the important rugby match taking place at the weekend. I am sure we can all agree that this is one of the shorter and easier instruments that we have been asked to debate.

The proposed statutory instrument will reduce the fees that are chargeable when statutory data is lodged to the energy performance of buildings register. The reduction is possible because the Government have invested in modernising the register by using new information technology and the latest software development techniques. The register service is now hosted on a cloud-based digital platform that is managed in-house, with lower running costs, the benefit of which can be passed on to fee-payers.

The noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, asked how the fees were calculated. Noble Lords will be reassured that we aim for a cost-neutral service over time. As I said in my opening speech, there is no desire to profit from this. The fee modelling indicates that the data lodgement fees can be reduced, and the cost of the service has been calculated in line with government policy as set out in Managing Public Money from Her Majesty’s Treasury. The registered service costs from April 2021 to March 2022 have been modelled at £2.25 million, and our forecast fee income over the same period will deliver approximately the same amount from a projection of approximately 1.36 million data lodgements.

In response to the noble Lord, Lord Addington, I say that there are very clear benefits from these EPCs. They provide policy-makers and markets with information about the energy efficiency of the building stock as well as supporting and encouraging individuals to make informed choices about how to improve the energy efficiency of their building. Increasingly, government policies such as minimum energy efficiency standards in the private rented sector, the renewable heat incentive, which supports installation of renewable energy production, and the Green Deal, which supported installation of energy efficiency measures, have relied on buildings having a current EPC and being linked to achieving a specific EPC rating. The most recent green homes grant, which helps with installing energy-efficient and low-carbon heating improvements to homes, also makes use of the recommendations set out in the EPC where one is available for the property concerned. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Addington, that the Government are delivering an action plan to explore better ways to identify non-compliance and review penalties, provide better consumer information and improve the quality assurance of EPCs, including better oversight, accountability and formal error reporting.

I am surprised that both my noble friends in energy efficiency—the noble Lord, Lord Addington, and my noble friend Lord Moynihan—talked about the difficulty of accessing the data. My understanding is that there is open public access to the register and on the website you can access records by address search or EPC reference numbers, so it should not be too difficult to access the information.

I thank my noble friend Lord Lansley for his policy ideas. One can see that he has tremendous experience of heading up policy thinking, and indeed implementing it as a very distinguished Cabinet Minister. Retrofit is important, but that policy area is very much led on by BEIS, and it would certainly require some thinking about how to operate that. Of course, as he pointed out, any changes to the way we collect the stamp duty land tax would require support from the Treasury. It is an important point that we consider ways in which we can drive the agenda of getting homes to be more energy efficient, and obviously, as he outlines, the existing stock requires retrofitting. However, I will take forward his policy ideas with some enthusiasm. I completely agree with the broad point that very often tax incentives are a better way of achieving policy objectives than direct grant funding.

In response to my noble friend Lord Moynihan, I take the opportunity to highlight that the Government have a plan around this. We set the future homes standard, which is very clear about the need to produce at least 75% lower CO₂ emissions than current standards. That is for our homes but, equally, the future building standards consultation, which was launched in January 2021 and which will close on 13 April, will set a future buildings standard. By having these standards and then having a suite of measures, including the energy performance certificate, I am sure that we will be in a position where we can deliver on the Government’s promise of a zero-carbon economy.

I have certainly done my measured best to deal with the variety of questions that have been thrown at me from my colleagues. If I have not done so, I am happy to follow up with them in writing if necessary. I hope that noble Lords have found the debate informative and will join me in supporting these regulations.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

My Lords, despite my having a wealth of cricketing metaphors, the umpire will put the Question. The Question is that this Motion be agreed to.

Motion agreed.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

The Grand Committee stands adjourned until 4.30 pm. I remind Members to sanitise their desks and chairs before leaving the Room.

UK Shared Prosperity Fund

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 21st May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh]

The noble Lord will recognise that Wales receives more per capita than any of the four nations. I have made a commitment that the overall level of the funds will, at the minimum, remain the same, but I cannot go any further on the specific funding for the various nations.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, we are all well aware of the scenario in which the UK Government provide the money and the devolved Administrations then take the credit for spending it. Can my noble friend assure us that all projects supported by the shared prosperity fund will be appropriately branded to acknowledge the role of the UK Government in order to underline the importance of our union?

[Lord Greenhalgh]

I can give my noble friend that specific assurance.