Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill)

Lord Caine Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments and / or reasons
Wednesday 26th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly in support of the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lady Barran. I have not taken part in any of the debates around independent schools in your Lordships’ House, and, for the record, I am entirely the product of the state education system in the east of Leeds. However, I have been prompted to get to my feet today on the back of the very sad news that was announced yesterday of the closure of Fulneck School, in Pudsey, Leeds. It was established in 1753, during the reign of King George II, and will now close its doors for the final time in July.

Fulneck, for those who do not know, is famous for educating, among others, the great Liberal Prime Minister Herbert Asquith and the late great Dame Diana Rigg—otherwise known to some as Mrs Peel—along with a very close friend of mine, who was absolutely devastated to hear the news this morning. Fulneck is part of a Moravian settlement in Pudsey, which includes a grade 1 listed church and many other listed buildings. It is a unique part of the heritage of Leeds and the broader West Riding of Yorkshire, a large part of which will now be lost for ever.

I will not argue that the imposition of VAT is the only reason for the closure of the school; in fact, the school’s own statement refers to problems of falling numbers in recent years. However, the statement points to significantly rising administrative costs. Surely the broader point here is that, for a large number of small, independent schools across the country that have been struggling to keep their heads above water in recent years, the imposition of VAT and increases in employer national insurance are policies that will sink them.

As a result of the closure, 300 or so students will now have to be educated elsewhere within the locality; most, presumably, will have to find places within the state sector. I note that the school lies within the parliamentary constituency of Leeds West and Pudsey, which is represented by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I support my noble friend.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests in sport as set out in the register.

I have spoken in Committee and on Report about the damage that retaining Clause 5 will do to the sporting success of many talented young people in the UK who gained admission to independent schools from the state sector through sports bursaries and scholarships. The reason for this was that, in response to parental demand, many independent schools have invested in state-of-the-art sports facilities, top-level coaches, and the sports psychologists, nutritionists, physios and support staff whose presence in many of our independent schools have delivered success at international and national level, while offering those facilities, out of hours and during the holidays, to local communities through their dual-use policies.

The costs imposed by VAT on school fees, increased by higher national insurance contributions and now by business rates, means that to balance the books those schools which survive will have to reduce the many sports scholarships and bursaries currently available to talented young people. Talented young people from a wide range of backgrounds in the maintained sector would otherwise never have access to facilities and coaching expertise of this type.

To demonstrate the scale of the support, I previously drew the Minister’s attention to 14 athletes on Team GB at the Paris Olympic Games who came from Millfield School, 13 of whom came through its means-tested financial support mechanism. Those athletes brought home seven Olympic medals and one Paralympic medal—four gold, three silver and one bronze. The career path for our talented athletes has provided opportunities for thousands of young sports men and women who could not afford to go to independent schools and benefit from their sporting facilities without the bursaries and scholarships on offer. At the Paris Olympics in 2024, 33% of Team GB’s medallists had been given the chance to attend independent schools, many of whom had their fees paid in part or in whole through means-tested bursaries and scholarships.

The statistics prove the point. I would not be worried if facilities in the state sector were a substitute; that they are not is not a party-political point. Sports facilities at local authority level and state school level have been in decline for years. We had a magnificent Olympic and Paralympic Games in London in 2012. The regeneration of the East End of London was a resounding success, but we did not leave a sports legacy to London or to the country. Playing fields continue to be sold; public swimming pools are closed. Even Sport England has this month lost its statutory ability—which has had a great effect in keeping playing fields open—to appeal against the loss of sports facilities removed as part of the proposed planning reforms.

I see no evidence that these arguments were addressed in another place yesterday. By raising them today, I urge colleagues from across the House to vote for this amendment and protect the opportunities afforded to many of our aspiring young Olympians and Paralympians. I ask noble Lords not to deny those young people the same number of bursaries and scholarships that independent schools have been able to make over many years. I hope that every Member of your Lordships’ House will bear these arguments in mind when they consider whether to vote to retain Clause 5 in its current form.

King’s Speech

Lord Caine Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, I join in welcoming the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General to his post and congratulating him on a superb maiden speech. I also welcome the noble Lord, Lord Khan of Burnley, to his post. It was one of the great honours of my life to serve for a little over two and a half years as a Northern Ireland Minister in this House. After some 36 years of involvement, I will continue to be an active participant on all Northern Ireland matters both inside and outside the House.

In the short time available, I will make three points. First, the election result in Northern Ireland does not in any way indicate that constitutional change is imminent or inevitable, let alone desirable. Yes, Sinn Féin now has the largest number of seats in the other place and, for the second election in a row, there are more nationalist MPs from Northern Ireland than there are unionists. But that tells only part of the story. In fact, nationalists returned exactly the same number of MPs at this election as five years ago. The two main nationalist parties, Sinn Féin and the SDLP, won 38.1% of the vote. For context, it is worth recalling that in the 1998 Assembly election those two parties had 39.6% of first preference votes. The question that those who advocate the end of the union ought to be asking themselves, therefore, is why, after an agreement that they claimed would deliver a united Ireland by 2016, and despite demographic changes, nationalism is in roughly the same place as it was a quarter of a century ago.

The big shift from 1998 has been the decline of the unionist vote, probably exacerbated at this election by events that could not have been foreseen, and the rise of Alliance as an electoral force. However, as I have said before, I do not believe that too many people are motivated to vote Alliance out of a burning desire for constitutional change, and in the constituency won by Alliance at the election, Lagan Valley, more votes were cast for unionist candidates than in any other seat in Northern Ireland. Those predicting or hastening the end of the union are being decidedly premature, so I welcome the reaffirmation by the new Secretary of State—incidentally, my local MP—Hilary Benn that a border poll is not on the horizon. The circumstances that would require it to be called are nowhere near satisfied.

My second point is that this creates both challenges and opportunities for those who want to see Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom strengthened. I count myself among their number. The most obvious point is that unionism has to find a way of co-operating rather than constantly tearing itself apart. It needs, as one unionist put it recently, to start finding new friends rather than constantly seeking out Lundys and traitors and fighting yesterday’s battles.

What form this takes is primarily for unionists in Northern Ireland to determine, although my noble friend Lord Godson set out a number of suggestions in a typically erudite speech in Limavady earlier this year. Unionism cannot afford to appeal to an ever-decreasing base. There is a broader constituency out there that needs engaging about the long-term economic and social benefits of the union, which remain considerable.

My final point is for the Government. I welcome the pledge in the gracious Speech to

“support the political institutions and devolved government in Northern Ireland”.

The restoration of Stormont in February was the culmination of intensive efforts by my colleagues in the previous Administration. It was achieved as a result of the changes we set out in the Windsor Framework and the Command Paper Safeguarding the Union to address the serious defects in the original protocol.

The Government’s manifesto states that they are

“committed to implementing the Windsor Framework in good faith”.

However, it does not mention the Command Paper, which was also vital in getting Stormont back. The Command Paper contained a number of positive and practical measures to strengthen the union—the East-West Council and Intertrade UK, to name but two. I hope that the Government will faithfully implement all those commitments in the Command Paper that are designed to strengthen the union.

As my noble friend Lord McInnes of Kilwinning reminded the House, in 2021 the then Leader of the Opposition stated:

“I believe in the United Kingdom and I will make the case for a United Kingdom”.


However, on his visit to Belfast, days after becoming Prime Minister, he said that he would be an “honest broker” on the issue, intimating incorrectly that this was somehow a requirement of the 1998 agreement. I hope that this does not herald a retreat back to neutrality on the union and Northern Ireland’s position within it. No UK Government should ever be neutral on the union. The Prime Minister should stay true to his commitment to make the case for the United Kingdom and for Northern Ireland’s enduring place within it.

England: Historic Counties

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My noble friend makes that very easy: I even have Russell Grant’s book on historic counties here. He has had a great impact on our department and I am very pleased to meet the all-party group and Mr Middlesex. Yes, I am a proud wearer of a Middlesex tie, admittedly from when I was younger, fitter and svelter. It is very important to consider these issues.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, as one of the Members of this House who was born, bred and still resides in the West Riding of Yorkshire, I assure my noble friend that the Government and the new Secretary of State would be immensely popular across the whole of Yorkshire if they were finally to overturn the vandalism of the early 1970s and restore the territorial integrity and names of the ancient ridings of God’s own county.

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, there is a very strong Yorkshire theme today. The Government proudly flew the Yorkshire flag outside our headquarters to mark Yorkshire Day. That beautiful flag was part of the display in Parliament Square that flew for a week to mark Historic County Flags Day on 23 July. We recognise that people should take great pride in their local identities and we continue to do so, irrespective of the local administrative areas.

Energy Performance of Buildings (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 18th March 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, it is a genuine pleasure to follow my noble friend Lord Moynihan, who has made lots of good points. Some of them relate directly to points that I was hoping to make, so I will not repeat them, but the importance of the building sector in achieving our net zero carbon objectives should not be underestimated. The second largest source of emissions is from buildings.

It is easy for us to focus far too much on the commendable achievements in building net zero carbon homes, but by my calculation, we simply have to recognise that, by 2050, something like two-thirds of the homes we live in will already have been built, so retrofitting and securing energy efficiency in our existing housing stock is absolutely critical. There are government schemes for this purpose, such as the Whole House Retrofit plan related to social housing, and so on.

The scope of these regulations is modest, and I welcome that. I know that we are all grateful to the Minister for explaining the regulations at the outset, but I shall unashamedly take the opportunity to talk about not the price of EPCs but the uses to which they should be put. Far too infrequently are EPCs seen as the spur to energy efficiency improvements that they should be, which is what we are looking for.

On this occasion I will not be drawn into the private rented sector. I know that the Government undertook a consultation in the latter part of last year. I am probably slightly disappointed that, in the event, they were not a bit more ambitious, because the cost-benefit ratio they ended up with suggested that the benefits did not outweigh the costs, but that of course was at the carbon price assumed between now and 2050.

Again, I will not go down this rabbit hole for too long because it is too important and too deep, but we ought to ensure that our carbon pricing is set at a level that forces change. If it is set at that level, it is also one that is likely to deliver substantial benefits in relation to the energy efficiency of buildings and the costs that renters and landlords have to meet.

I come back to the use of the EPC. Two-thirds of the existing housing stock has a rating of D or worse, so we need to effect change. There are government schemes: my noble friend Lord Moynihan is quite right; it is not that there are not schemes. The Government have put money and resources behind grant schemes, but the supply chain and the people influenced by it need these things to be sustained over a considerable period and we need the response to be substantial and positive. I am afraid it is not.

At the moment, even in the last few weeks, we are sitting here saying, “Why are people not taking up the green homes grant?” I think it would be far too easy to blame it on Covid and say, “They do not want people in their homes, understandably, so they are not taking up the grant.” However, it was true beforehand. We have had this with other insulation schemes. It is sometimes as brutally simple as people living in a house not wanting to empty their loft to let somebody up there to put the right insulation in place. They do not want the disruption.

I will put just one point to my noble friend in the hope he will convey it into the right ears across government. Like we do in the private rented sector, focusing on when there is a new tenancy, in the owner-occupied sector we must focus on the moment of sale—when the EPC is given to a potential new owner and they have a period ahead of them when they might reap the benefits of investment in energy efficiency. At that moment, they also are likely to empty the house. They may empty the loft and sometimes they can engineer a short window of opportunity for energy efficiency improvements to take place.

I suggest that, at that moment, rather than a grant scheme which comes and goes and depends on the vagaries of spending reviews, there could be a permanent allowance against stamp duty for energy efficiency improvements up to, say, the value of £5,000 that they undertake—if recommended as a result of an energy performance certificate. Such a scheme could be confined to houses with an EPC of D or worse or, to start off with, those rated F and G, to see how it goes.

I prefer tax incentives to government grant schemes. I prefer tax relief to expenditure. I prefer incentives people can permanently rely on and where they feel they are getting some of their own money back or not having to give their money to the Government. As the tax is targeted on that moment, the incentive can be deployed in that moment as well. I commend that thought to my noble friend.

I know government departments not only hesitate, but will not enter the territory of tax, because it is all the Treasury’s business. But if they have an objective—and there is an objective here—and they think it can best be achieved by working with the Treasury through a tax incentive, I ask that they go down that path.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, has withdrawn, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Addington.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I thank everybody for this short debate in Grand Committee considering the draft regulations and for the many cricketing metaphors, as well as the reference to the important rugby match taking place at the weekend. I am sure we can all agree that this is one of the shorter and easier instruments that we have been asked to debate.

The proposed statutory instrument will reduce the fees that are chargeable when statutory data is lodged to the energy performance of buildings register. The reduction is possible because the Government have invested in modernising the register by using new information technology and the latest software development techniques. The register service is now hosted on a cloud-based digital platform that is managed in-house, with lower running costs, the benefit of which can be passed on to fee-payers.

The noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, asked how the fees were calculated. Noble Lords will be reassured that we aim for a cost-neutral service over time. As I said in my opening speech, there is no desire to profit from this. The fee modelling indicates that the data lodgement fees can be reduced, and the cost of the service has been calculated in line with government policy as set out in Managing Public Money from Her Majesty’s Treasury. The registered service costs from April 2021 to March 2022 have been modelled at £2.25 million, and our forecast fee income over the same period will deliver approximately the same amount from a projection of approximately 1.36 million data lodgements.

In response to the noble Lord, Lord Addington, I say that there are very clear benefits from these EPCs. They provide policy-makers and markets with information about the energy efficiency of the building stock as well as supporting and encouraging individuals to make informed choices about how to improve the energy efficiency of their building. Increasingly, government policies such as minimum energy efficiency standards in the private rented sector, the renewable heat incentive, which supports installation of renewable energy production, and the Green Deal, which supported installation of energy efficiency measures, have relied on buildings having a current EPC and being linked to achieving a specific EPC rating. The most recent green homes grant, which helps with installing energy-efficient and low-carbon heating improvements to homes, also makes use of the recommendations set out in the EPC where one is available for the property concerned. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Addington, that the Government are delivering an action plan to explore better ways to identify non-compliance and review penalties, provide better consumer information and improve the quality assurance of EPCs, including better oversight, accountability and formal error reporting.

I am surprised that both my noble friends in energy efficiency—the noble Lord, Lord Addington, and my noble friend Lord Moynihan—talked about the difficulty of accessing the data. My understanding is that there is open public access to the register and on the website you can access records by address search or EPC reference numbers, so it should not be too difficult to access the information.

I thank my noble friend Lord Lansley for his policy ideas. One can see that he has tremendous experience of heading up policy thinking, and indeed implementing it as a very distinguished Cabinet Minister. Retrofit is important, but that policy area is very much led on by BEIS, and it would certainly require some thinking about how to operate that. Of course, as he pointed out, any changes to the way we collect the stamp duty land tax would require support from the Treasury. It is an important point that we consider ways in which we can drive the agenda of getting homes to be more energy efficient, and obviously, as he outlines, the existing stock requires retrofitting. However, I will take forward his policy ideas with some enthusiasm. I completely agree with the broad point that very often tax incentives are a better way of achieving policy objectives than direct grant funding.

In response to my noble friend Lord Moynihan, I take the opportunity to highlight that the Government have a plan around this. We set the future homes standard, which is very clear about the need to produce at least 75% lower CO₂ emissions than current standards. That is for our homes but, equally, the future building standards consultation, which was launched in January 2021 and which will close on 13 April, will set a future buildings standard. By having these standards and then having a suite of measures, including the energy performance certificate, I am sure that we will be in a position where we can deliver on the Government’s promise of a zero-carbon economy.

I have certainly done my measured best to deal with the variety of questions that have been thrown at me from my colleagues. If I have not done so, I am happy to follow up with them in writing if necessary. I hope that noble Lords have found the debate informative and will join me in supporting these regulations.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

My Lords, despite my having a wealth of cricketing metaphors, the umpire will put the Question. The Question is that this Motion be agreed to.

Motion agreed.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

The Grand Committee stands adjourned until 4.30 pm. I remind Members to sanitise their desks and chairs before leaving the Room.

UK Shared Prosperity Fund

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 21st May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh]

The noble Lord will recognise that Wales receives more per capita than any of the four nations. I have made a commitment that the overall level of the funds will, at the minimum, remain the same, but I cannot go any further on the specific funding for the various nations.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, we are all well aware of the scenario in which the UK Government provide the money and the devolved Administrations then take the credit for spending it. Can my noble friend assure us that all projects supported by the shared prosperity fund will be appropriately branded to acknowledge the role of the UK Government in order to underline the importance of our union?

[Lord Greenhalgh]

I can give my noble friend that specific assurance.