Constitutional Settlement

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Thursday 11th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Ladyton]

My Lords, I thank and congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, on proposing the Motion at the beginning of the debate. As we have been reminded by my noble friends Lord McConnell and Lord Foulkes and as the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, reinforced, the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan is, if not uniquely, at least very well-qualified to introduce this issue because of his consistent history as a great veteran of constitutional change. There is another reason of which he may not care to be reminded: in a sense, he is a one-man coalition and has a reach across the political spectrum of the United Kingdom which is not unique but is very extensive.

In the first minutes of the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, my heart sank as his wide-ranging introduction, which covered, among other things, globalisation, the reform of multilateral institutions, the role of the Enlightenment and the better governance initiative, made me think that I had agreed to respond to a debate that was well beyond my scope. I was glad to see that in the substance of his speech he came back within the scope that I had anticipated. I have some notes that address some of those issues, although when the noble Lord, Lord Steel of Aikwood, intervened in the speech of my noble friend Lord Soley and introduced the idea of your Lordships’ House becoming a revising chamber for the devolved Assemblies and Parliaments, my heart sank again as I thought I would have to grapple with procedural and other complications of that sort. The noble Lord will excuse me if I am not tempted into a discussion about whether the Parliament that he presided over has an adequate structure of committees to provide that revision and anticipation. That is a debate for another date. That may be work for a constitutional convention or some other institution which may be created at some time in the future.

Once again, I am indebted to my noble friend Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale for his consistent contributions which set out the progressive case for the union of the United Kingdom. He does it very well because he not only does it by assertion but explains the reasons for it in a way that is accessible.

That leads me to my second point, which is that when I looked at the words of this Motion, I thought that there was a danger of this becoming another kind of Scot fest, with arguments about independence or the pros and cons of independence and nothing else. As one of those who has argued consistently since I have been in this House for a diversity of voices in a debate about the future of the United Kingdom, I am delighted to see that the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, and my noble friends Lord Judd and Lord Soley have ventured into the Scottish environment to make a contribution. However, I regret that the diversity of voices in this debate did not manage to extend to a woman’s voice. I should like to hear the voices of more women in the debate about the union of the United Kingdom because they have a significant amount to offer.

It has become fashionable recently for politicians to explain what is called their back story. We have heard a lot of that over the past couple of weeks. My noble friends Lord McConnell and Lord Judd, in explaining their back stories, explained why these islands are so important to so many people. I come to this Chamber every day from a household in London where I have a son who has made a choice to pursue his career here. He is unlikely to go back to Scotland, although he may go elsewhere. The diversity and integration of these islands are crucial to this debate. Hearing voices from beyond Scotland from people who have connections with Scotland and who value those relationships, in exactly the same context as my noble friend Lord McConnell explained, is valuable. There are probably no Members of the House who do not have connections somewhere across these islands without going very far back. When we scratch the surface we find that we are all in a sense connected to each other.

I shared the view of my noble friend Lord Hughes of Woodside when I first looked at the words of the Motion. The topic of the debate is extremely timely—and has become even more timely with yesterday’s unofficial announcement that there has been an agreement at least about the number of questions in the referendum. I was concerned that the wording would be unhelpful to the arguments that I want to make, first, because I do not believe that come 2014 we will face a landscape in which the UK is broken apart. I am not complacent but I do not believe that that is what the people of Scotland want or what they will vote for in 2014. I am pleased that my noble friend Lord McConnell does not believe it, either. The words could have been misinterpreted to suggest that that was what he anticipated.

Secondly, I was uncomfortable about the wording because I thought it implied that the people of Scotland deem the current devolution settlement grossly deficient, and consider that a much more radical constitutional settlement is required to prevent secession. I know that legitimate voices in this debate suggested that we need to go further in the context of devolution; I will come to that in more detail. However, I do not believe for a moment that the people of Scotland are overwhelmingly of that view. It may be that there is a preponderance of political commentary on some of these issues—we have already heard comments about that—but that is not my sense of where the people of Scotland are. I will come to the polling figures in a moment because I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Steel of Aikwood, on this issue.

Thirdly, I was uncomfortable because the wording seems to imply that the case for considering the issue of the future constitutional settlement in general is contingent on the break-up of the United Kingdom, or the prospect of such a break-up. Again, I am pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, indicated that it was not his intention to suggest this, and that his was a different argument. I will take advantage of this opportunity to address some of these concerns and issues because, first, as the noble Lord, Lord Steel, said, polling has consistently showed that the majority of the Scottish public are not in favour of secession.

Since last year, the number of people in favour of breaking up the United Kingdom has steadily declined, depending on which poll one looks at, from about 38% or 40% to the most recent poll, conducted by TNS BMRB, which shows 28% of respondents supporting secession. Much more importantly, it shows a trend of a hardening of the vote of those who had not made up their mind in favour of the status quo. That is welcome news and will reinforce the trend that the UK and Scottish Governments have finally reached a point of agreement on the terms of the referendum. Despite the reassurances given to the House yesterday by the noble and learned Lord, I am not sure that I am as content that they appear to have agreed to change the nature of the franchise for this individual purpose—for many of the reasons that have already been expressed in this debate.

Now is the time to focus on making the case for why the United Kingdom is stronger together than apart. It is time to begin a frank discussion about what departure from the union would mean for Scotland. It is also time to consider the strength of the devolution settlement as it stands. That is because it is misleading to imply that great consideration has not been given, and given recently, to the question of the constitutional settlement in relation to Scotland. This is in many ways the big con of those who argue for independence. The only way that Scotland can achieve meaningful autonomy is by leaving the United Kingdom, but it is arguable that the Scottish Government already have many, if not all, of the tools they require for autonomy. The Calman commission process was set up by all the unionist parties when I was the Secretary of State for Scotland. It was completed by this Government in the Scotland Act 2012. Despite the continued assertion and insistence of the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, that it is a ragbag, it is part of a process to consider the ways in which the devolution settlement can be strengthened. In short, it grants the Scottish Government new tax-raising powers, including powers to set a Scottish rate of income tax and borrow on the capital markets that are worth in the order of £5 billion to £6 billion. Crucially, it also makes provision, subject to agreement, to devolve further taxes in the future. We will not go into the detail of the debate we had on the Scotland Bill in relation to those powers. Here, achieved, is a clear and concrete vision for the future of devolution, a vision that is evidence-based and has the support of Scottish business, civil society, experts and academics. It will support the future prosperity and aspirations of Scotland within the union.

Before I have even addressed the meat of this debate, I have run out of time. Perhaps I may ask the indulgence of the House to say something that I think is very important. I commend to all those who wish to make a contribution to this debate the speech made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace of Tankerness, on 2 October at the Edinburgh Centre for Constitutional Law. I have captured the BBC’s “Scotland’s future” web page. If you had to rely on this page, you would not believe that that speech had even been made, which is an utter disgrace for a public sector broadcaster. I do not have time to do it justice, but this speech sets out in a thoughtful, reasoned, accessible and persuasive way many of the arguments that I would wish to make.

I also want to say this to the noble and learned Lord: the BBC has been remiss, but he should also capture the page on the Cabinet Office’s website on constitutional reform. It still contains a list of things that have now been consigned to the dustbin of constitutional reform in this country and makes no reference to the ongoing process in Scotland. I suggest that the Government ought to listen carefully to what has been said in this debate to find a way of identifying at least the interim, or even the long-standing, end they have in mind for constitutional reform. They can draw on the Constitution Committee of this House and others, and then they can come back to this place to explain the process of how that will be done across all parties in a way that they can all buy into together.