Communications Act 2003 (Restrictions on the Advertising of Less Healthy Food) (Effective Date) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Monday 27th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Allan, for his Motion to Regret and for the excellent way in which he presented it, and to all other speakers who have contributed. I feel sorry for the Minister. He is one of several Ministers we have seen since 2015, since the Conservatives have been totally in charge of government, and, during that period, of course, we have seen obesity grow—it is the one area in which we have seen growth, growth, growth. It is an area that has now worryingly spread down, particularly to children. We can say what we will say today, but I know the Government are not changing their mind; they are kicking this ball into the long grass, into the next election and beyond. Really, I think we in this Chamber should start addressing ourselves to who will be in power next time around, and what we might try to do in persuading them to have policies that will effect changes, because the one thing that the Government should have learned is that relying on voluntary conversations and a voluntary response from the private sector and the businesses in the food and drinks industry rarely produces a response.

Yesterday, I had experience of where the Government have taken some action. I went out for lunch and I had a choice on the menu: I saw the number of calories available to me with the various foods that were in front of me. I chose to have food with 1,000 calories, as opposed to 1,500, which I might have chosen had they not got that legislation through—with our support. Where they failed, of course—we pointed this out at the time the legislation was going through—was when my colleagues sat down, my friends and family, and had the bottles of wine, the gin and tonics before and the rest of it. They had no idea what they were consuming. I have been talking about labelling on alcohol for years, and the Government have done nothing at all. They have relied on the private sector to try to effect changes; there have been some marginal ones, but we still do not have any knowledge of what people are consuming when they come to take alcoholic drinks. Often, they can be consuming far more calories in the form of drink than in food.

So, looking at a menu with calories on does work. Leaving it to the private sector to do it voluntarily does not. I am hoping that the next Government in power will recognise fairly early on that we have to take the action, do the research, get it on the statute book and then implement it and not fiddle around. Because we see that we now have type 2 diabetes emerging among children as young as nine, 10 and 11, and that was not the case back in 2010 when the Labour Government went out of power. It was not the case even in 2014. If we look at what is happening in America with type 2 diabetes, the projections of the numbers of citizens who will have it in the future are quite frightening. They are saying that there could be up to 90% with type 2 diabetes unless people start to address basic food and drink properly. Yet we are letting it slip through our fingers here today. I am hoping the Minister will sensibly recognise—he does endeavour to bring a business attitude to bear—that we need to get law and not rely on a voluntary approach.

Another approach linked to this—I hope my noble friend on the Front Bench might pick this up—is that we see increasingly that advertising is not so much influencing young people on television, but it is online, and these regulations do not touch on online advertising one iota. There may be a saving grace, in that there is a delay: whoever deals with it next will sweep up online advertising as well. Linked to that, there is a requirement to look at the whole advertising industry and see how it is operating and whether we should not contemplate introducing health taxes into advertising, so that those who are advertising the most harmful food and drinks should be paying taxes on their advertising, and those who are advertising good food should have encouragement and support. That is the kind of change that we may be looking for with a new Government—a different approach from the one we have had so far. So, I look forward with interest, as others do, to the defence the Minister is going to mount—a defence which will be about nothing changing while they are still in power.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, the Children’s Minister recently admitted that the nation had a problem with childhood obesity that should not be ignored. I am sure that noble Lords who have spoken today, and I am grateful to them, will share that view, not least because children with obesity are five times more likely to become adults with obesity, increasing the risk of developing conditions including type 2 diabetes, cancer and heart and liver disease. This is an extremely serious and pressing matter, as the Minister has been reminded yet again.

Two in five children in England are above healthy weight when they leave primary school and we now see the fastest increase in childhood obesity on record, as my noble friend Lord Brooke highlighted in his remarks. But it gets worse. Children starting school in the most deprived areas are three times as likely to be severely obese as those in the wealthiest, while NHS data shows that almost half of boys in England’s poorest areas are overweight or obese when they leave primary school. Last year, there were 3,400 severely obese children aged four or five in the most deprived parts of the country, as compared with 630 in the richest. So will the Minister give some indication as to what account is being taken of this great disparity between those who have more and those who have less in the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill currently being considered in your Lordships’ House?

As we have heard today, it is absolutely right that we make informed choices about what we eat and drink, but choice can only really be choice if there is no distortion, and if those who are making the decisions have all the information they need and are able to interpret it. As the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, said, we actually need an integrated health approach to tackle the complexities of achieving a healthy weight. So the question for the Minister that has run throughout this debate is: how will the statutory instrument support this integrated health approach to tackle the complexities we know we have?

In the Government’s original analysis, they suggested a watershed on advertising, saying that introducing restrictions to prevent adverts for products high in salt, fat and sugar being shown before 9 pm could lead to 20,000 fewer obese children. I took it that this was, as others have said in the debate today, about shifting the environment, shifting the power of influences, in order to manage the challenges that we all face in supporting our wish to secure good health. So, will the Minister tell your Lordships’ House what will be the change in opportunity to tackle children’s obesity because of this regulation and the change it brings about? I refer in particular to page 33 of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee report. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, referred to the figures. The report states:

“Analysis conducted to inform the Government’s Impact Assessment of the advertising restrictions found that under current restrictions children were exposed to 2.9 billion less healthy food and drink TV impacts and 11 billion less healthy food and drink impressions online in 2019”.


The committee observes that the effect of the delays means that, presumably, this level of advertising will continue and asks for an explanation as to why this is acceptable given the harms stated. Perhaps the Minister could refer to an answer on this point. The committee also asks for an explanation as to how the Government anticipate that they will still achieve the target of halving childhood obesity by 2030 if various elements of the strategy are delayed. Again, perhaps the Minister can tell your Lordships’ House his view on this.

Of course, there is a difficult balance to strike when seeking to improve public health and also when working with broadcast and online and the advertising industries. The Government have produced a regulation that has been drawn to the attention of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee once again, and this clearly does not assist the striking of that balance. It is not acceptable that the Explanatory Memorandum is described as “poor”, and that it fails to evaluate the effects on public health and the NHS from this delay. Nor is it acceptable that it fails to explain the use of a different definition from previous legislation. This refers to the unexplained shift from “high-fat, sugar and salt” to “less healthy foods”. The committee rightly asks whether the Government’s intended scope of products that they want to regulations to cover have been changed. Perhaps the Minister could respond on this point.

The SLSC also says that it

“provides insufficient information to gain a clear understanding about the instrument’s policy objective and intended implementation.”

It also says that, worryingly:

“The views of the NHS are not addressed or explained.”


This, I believe, is quite remarkable and suggests a breath-taking lack of engagement with those who should be engaged with. Once again, poor policy-making and poor administration have come together to leave your Lordships’ House unable to properly scrutinise what the Government are doing and why, even though it is the job of your Lordships’ House to do this. Perhaps the Minister could address these points of concern.

The Minister will recall that I have raised many times before the point about his department’s approach to legislation and the criticism that it has attracted. He kindly gave an undertaking that he would look into this with a view of doing better in future. Can the Minister could update the House of progress in this regard? Finally, I hope that the Government will not be diverted from measures that will have an impact on the health and weight of the nation.

Urgent and Emergency Care Recovery Plan

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

That is absolutely right. The figure that struck me on one of my many hospital visits was that apparently people lose 10% of their muscle mass each week they are in hospital, making it harder for them to look after themselves. The noble Baroness, Lady Merron, mentioned that we need to make sure the resources and investment are in the right places. All too often, hospitals become the place of last resort, when we all know that it is much better to put resources into the primary care at the front end or the social care and domestic help for physios who can visit homes at the back end. Central to the plans of my colleague, Minister Whately, is recognition that we will solve this in the long term, as all noble Lords want, only if we invest those resources in the right places.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the plan and hope that the Government can keep to the targets they have set. I had experience of being in a major London hospital recently, spending five hours in A&E. It was the first time I had been in A&E for a long time. I was surprised at the number of young people there. When eventually I was seen by a nurse, I asked why so many young people were there. She said, “We’re surprised; there was a good football match on tonight, and we thought there wouldn’t be so many”.

It is odd when people are in A&E. Should they be with a GP? We wait with interest to see the report on GPs. I suspect that we have far more people now getting involved in health, for a whole variety of reasons, than need be in the system. This takes us back to prevention. I still do not believe we are addressing prevention as we should—trying to reduce the number of people in ill health. The programmes we have on obesity and in a whole range of areas where we are trying to get people to change their lifestyle are not having any impact. Until we seriously address those and put money and personnel into them to get ourselves reasonably healthy by comparison with the rest of Europe, we will just see the health service getting into even more difficulty, no matter who is in power.

I am sorry for going on at length. I hope the Minister will say something about a proper plan on prevention.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord. We have a manifesto pledge about five years of healthier living. I am keen to do exactly that, to say, “Okay, let’s unpack this—how can we make that realistic?”. We have all talked about being realistic. What are the causes of death or ill health that we need to get on top of? I mentioned cardiovascular disease earlier. We need to quickly address that because there is a cohort of people of my age who have missed out. Obesity is a clear thing. It is not just the treatments but everything we talk about in terms of supermarkets. I know that there is some discussion in the House on whether we have gone far enough on some of those things, but the action we have taken is hitting the big numbers. It is hitting about 95% of the planned reduction in calorific intake; we are seeing that have an impact already. There is also anti-smoking; I am keen to make that into a coherent plan. We all know that we can spend more and more money on hospitals and the health service, but we will have healthier lifestyles only if we can get up stream on the problem and talk about protection.

Times Health Commission

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2023 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the establishment by the Times of the Times Health Commission on 15 January.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank noble Lords. It is not quite the same as scoring a hat trick in football, but I will take the Order Paper home with pleasure.

We welcome the Times Health Commission’s contribution on how we can improve health and social care. We are always looking to build on good ideas, knowledge and experience, which this commission offers in bucketloads. I look forward to working with the commission and building on the best ideas.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that quite positive reply but, first, given our long history of political failure to tackle the increasingly serious care and health problems facing the country, will the Government set out in more detail what support they will give to this initiative? Secondly—this is perhaps more difficult for the Minister—will he seek support from his colleagues to enter into discussions with the opposition parties about the way in which we may create a new and entirely separate joint political mechanism whereby the recommendations that come forward from this commission may be amended or revised but in fact, on a joint basis, would then be implemented regardless of the political power held by any of the parties?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord and firmly agree that we should look to implement anything that is a good idea. I know that there are many things we can learn and that I am still to set up the meeting I talked to him about. I apologise that it has taken a while but we have had a few things on. In a word, yes, I will always look to work on a cross-party basis. One thing that I want to bring to Parliament soon is the new hospital programme I am working on, which I believe needs to go on for ever in terms of the way we are going to build new hospitals. It is something I would like to take forward as a cross-party action. Most of the things in this space are not political; they are all about getting good and effective treatment to our population, so I am very happy to work in a collaborative fashion.

Tobacco Control Plan

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I will take everything I can. Clearly, we need to stop cigarettes coming in by all illegal means.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

The Government also lose a lot of income through illegal importation. If the Government are working very hard indeed to prevent it, can the noble Lord please spell out what they are doing? As I understand it, the number of staff involved at the ports is being cut.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I do not have the figures on that, so I will need to give the noble Lord a detailed reply.

Long Covid

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Thornton for a masterly introduction to this debate. I speak with a little trepidation because I am no authority in this area, but I recognised very quickly what the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, had to say. His request to the Government about the need for a national cohort is very important indeed, and if the Government do nothing more today, I hope they will at least respond to that.

I approach this from an unusual angle. When Covid started, noble Lords may recall that every day, on the BBC, we saw photographs of the people who were dying. They were mainly old. There was a preponderance of men rather than women. A disproportionately high number came from the UK’s BAME population and 50% of those dying were overweight. My noble friend Lady Thornton knows that I have laboured on this subject for a long time. I and others noticed this. The research findings then bore out that there was a categorisation in this form—the research backed it up. The Government then decided that they had to do something about obesity and very quickly produced their 2021 strategy, as these underlying causes were substantial contributory factors.

We had higher death rates in the UK than the rest of Europe. Our numbers led the field for a period. Put me right if I am wrong, but I think we have performed particularly poorly. We did extraordinarily well with the vaccines, but the death rate was very high indeed. We are generally seen as one of the unhealthiest nations in Europe, part of which goes back to obesity, again linked with Covid. I have not read Covid-19 and Occupational Impacts, only glanced at it, but some important information there relates to the BAME community and sheds light on the problem there. However, I cannot find out whether there are any common factors on a substantial scale that can be identified within people with long Covid.

For example, I know people who have got long Covid who are overweight. They were overweight before, so they had an underlying cause and they were at risk. They continue with long Covid, yet they have a continuing problem with their weight. This is a difficult subject but we must address it honestly and straightforwardly. If there are continuing underlying factors not dissimilar from the problem in the first instance, we must acknowledge them, look at them, give support and assistance in those areas, and not run away from some of the difficulties that may be around. In this country these days, we run away so much from some of our underlying problems. It is too difficult politically and too sensitive to address them on head-on.

I am speaking marginally out of tone with the rest of the debate. I have just as much compassion, but it is important to have a frank and honest debate on this topic. I express my gratitude again to my noble friend for the opportunity to speak up and fully debate the topic before us. It is a very big one, which may be repeated elsewhere with other issues that come along later. I would be grateful if the Minister could tell us whether we are performing badly compared with the rest of Europe—whether we are getting more cases of long Covid than elsewhere. Are we doing better or less research than elsewhere in Europe? I pick up from the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, that the evidence indicates that we are leading the field in the research, which is good.

Fundamentally, we must keep coming back to prevention in the first instance. Until we make our country healthier, we will not be in a position to meet all the problems that will come with climate change, new diseases and unforeseen issues. If we are healthier in the ill to come, as we face it, we stand a much better chance of doing better next time round, with fewer people left with a continuing illness than we have at the moment.

Childhood Obesity

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with the noble Baroness, particularly given her previous position, that sport and physical activity are vital. As I am sure she is aware, we have a 60-minute target for children and £320 million of PE funding to back that up—but active lifestyles and sport are critical to that.

At this moment, as both an Englishman and a Welshman, I take the opportunity to wish both teams all the best in the World Cup.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not a factor that exercise, no matter how much you do, will reduce only 20% of your overweight? Some 80% is from food and drink. Will the Government spend more time looking at fat and sugar? Why will they not promote research into alternatives to sugar, notably stevia? Instead, they leave it to the private sector and the manufacturers to do the work, and they are doing no work whatever on it. In those circumstances, will the Government take action themselves?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that a healthy lifestyle in terms of exercise gets only you so far and that the amount we eat is critical to that. We have played a very active role on sugar reduction—of course, I say this in the context of this being Sugar Awareness Week. Obviously, the sugary drinks levy has reduced sugar in soft drinks by 44% by using artificial sweeteners, so this is something we will look to continue to research and to add to, if the evidence backs it up.

GPs: Anti-depressants and Alcohol

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they will review the purpose, effectiveness, and the cost, of GPs prescribing anti-depressants to patients who continue to consume alcohol.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

Decisions about what medicines to prescribe, and in what circumstances, are rightly made by the clinician caring for the patient. At the same time, NICE guidelines are clear that anti-depressants should not be used to treat alcohol dependency. Prescribers must be free to make their own decisions, based on their clinical judgment and discussion with their patients, with the appropriate care for the individual always being the primary consideration.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his reply. As we face public expenditure cuts and as the College of Medicine has estimated that 110 million items prescribed every year are wasted at a phenomenal cost, what steps are the Government going to take? Will they have discussions with GPs about the ways in which we can cut back on wasting money on useless prescriptions?

Urgent and Emergency Care

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord that we are aware of the situation; it is one of the reasons why this Statement was made in the first place. We know there are problems with delayed hospital discharges. That is why we have the national hospital discharge task force, which has been set the 100-day discharge challenge, focused on improving the processes but also on digging deep—not just the Secretary of State issuing an edict from afar and saying “Get on with it” but following up with NHS leadership to make sure that we are looking at this issue.

We are selecting these national discharge frontrunners from among ICSs and places to look at new ideas but also to see what has worked in a particular place. A number of noble Lords often give me an example of a hospital that they believe is doing very well. When we take it back to the NHS and say, “Can we replicate this elsewhere?”, they talk about the specific circumstances of that local area and the way that system is set up and why it could work. The ICBs and the integrated care partnerships have committees to look at this, and they know it has to be done as quickly as possible. So first there is the 100-day challenge between DHSC, the NHS and the local government discharge task force.

Adult care capacity is a problem that has been brewing for a long time. One of the things that we have been trying to do with social care, particularly through the integration White Paper but also with the Health and Care Bill, is finally to put it on an equal footing with health so that it is no longer the poor Cinderella service, and indeed to professionalise it. One of the reasons why we have the voluntary register is to make sure that we understand what is out there, who is out there, who is working and what qualifications they have so that we can build a proper career structure for people in social care to make sure that it is an attractive vocation for life and not just something that they do rather than working in Asda or elsewhere, and also that they have parity with the health service.

We are also looking in the medium to long term at some of the discharge frontrunners and at streamlining the intermediate care service, which could reduce delays by about 2,500 by winter 2023-24. Some of this stuff is to tackle the crisis now but some of it is long term to make sure that if we resolve it and get the numbers down we still do not forget about it, and that we build resilience into the system.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I phoned 999 two weeks ago after my wife had a nasty fall at home. The good news for the Minister is that the ambulance and paramedics turned up within half an hour, they were extraordinarily good and she was admitted to a major hospital—it was St George’s Hospital; I may as well name it. Unfortunately, it was just before the bank holiday. She had problems with her spine and she waited five days in a brace before they could do an MRI because, apart from the most acute emergencies, MRI scanning had closed down. In 2014, the Government were attacked for failing to provide proper services over bank holidays. They said they would look at it and change it, but here we are eight years later, and it is no different. Had it been done quickly, she could have been out, the bed would have been freed and the waiting list would have been shortened. I actually offered to pay for an MRI to be done if they would do it quickly to relieve her of the pain and torture she was going through, but they said, “Sorry, we can’t do that.” This is the problem we have with the NHS.

The real elephant in the room is that much, much more money has to go in. Those who can pay more must pay more and be willing to pay more. That will shorten the lists and produce more money to make conditions for staff even better so that they work in a different way. It would reduce the lists for everybody, but we are not radical enough and not prepared to do it. With the change that has taken place, nothing fundamental is going to happen in the next two years and this problem is, regrettably, going to continue. My question is: can the Minister please do something to make sure we use the equipment available to the maximum, which is not happening at present?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for sharing that personal story—the good and bad side of it. I was on a visit to a hospital a few months ago where they showed us a nice, new scanner, which they were very proud of. The question was: how much is that used? Does it sit empty at weekends? With more networks and being more connected, we can find out where there is capacity in the system. If there is equipment, why are there not staff available? It could be for staff absence reasons. If it is not there, where can people go? With more community diagnostic centres, you will find lots more diagnosis facilities and scanners, so if the acute place does not have it, there should be availability in the community.

On the wider question about being “radical”, the noble Lord will know that, while we may have candid conversations as friends from different parties, sadly, health is too tempting to use as a political football. There are some issues that people feel very strongly about. Some of the points about charging that the noble Lord mentioned would be seen as too radical by some, or as undermining the very ethos of the NHS. I think we have to be prepared to be radical and think the unthinkable, but, sadly, this is the formal, political debate that we have got, and we have to work within the remit of that debate. Why should it be, for example, that millionaires could not pay a little bit more to help—not through taxation, but maybe direct?

Some local trusts have tackled this issue. For example, my local trust has set up a private arm, but the money paid for private diagnosis or surgery is reinvested into the hospital to help NHS patients. I know that more than one trust has done that. That might be an interesting way of raising more money and making sure that people value the service and care they get.

On the specific issues, one of the reasons we are having this discussion is because the former Secretary of State was looking at all the issues that need to be tackled now, both in the short term and the long term.

Diabetic Prevention Programme

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Thursday 23rd June 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the business case for not recording the percentage of patients who joined the Diabetic Prevention Programme between 2018 and 2019 but failed to complete the course; and whether this information is now recorded.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Kamall) (Con)]

Data on completion rates is collected for specific reference periods. Rather than looking just at a yearly comparison, completion is analysed to understand the impact of changes to the programme, such as providing a digital option for consumers. Data collected at specific reference points, such as from January 2017 to March 2019, shows a completion rate of 53%.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that. He may not know it, but I have been on the diabetes prevention courses, as I am on the cusp of diabetes. I was amazed by the rate of drop-out on the course that I was on. It ran for nine months. I wondered about the cost and so asked a Written Question on the details, which the Minister has now given me. With a nearly 50% drop-out rate, surely there is something wrong with the course. I want to see more courses but they should be run properly. Can we get the NAO to look at this to see if we can have some improvements and get better returns?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for the question and pay tribute to him for his work in this area over many years. He is absolutely right. One of the challenges of this programme is that it is a nine-month course. Clearly, like many things, it was impacted by Covid, with a lack of in-person consultations and appointments. However, the silver lining to the cloud was the digital service. The course was able to move some patients on to digital services and to self-referring. One impact of that has been more people signing up to this programme.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point. The Office for Health Improvement and Disparities is looking at a number of these areas and where the health service or the ICS locally has to target more resources. Clearly, one of the big concerns is disparities. The noble Lord has given the example of the north-east; as he rightly said, there will be parts of the country where those checks are not happening. It is vital that we tackle those disparities.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

I am sorry to be so persistent, but we are spending millions on these programmes. Since some work is being done to try to improve them, could the Minister give the House a report in six months’ time to tell us what progress is being made and give us some targets that are being delivered?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I am not entirely sure that I can give the noble Lord what he asks for, but I suggest that he asks me a Question about progress in six months’ time. Given that the noble Lord asked this Question, I will go back to the department and see what answers we can give.

Health and Social Care Leadership Review

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Excerpts

Thursday 9th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for the question. It is important that we recognise that not only do we have more doctors and nurses than ever before, but we need staff to be good leaders. That includes understanding diverse workforces and, as I said earlier, making sure that we have good leaders at the top. Why do we have a diverse workforce? In fact, that diversity is not represented right at the top, in the leadership. Sometimes, when you want to change an organisation—I am sorry, but I did an PhD in organisational change—there are a number of aspects and one of them is the culture and the leadership. Sometimes a new leadership comes in that can drive that change in the organisation. It is not just about structures but about making sure that we improve the standard of care we give to people. This issue came up in the report, because we have to have the right leadership and focus on patient care and on making sure that we have a proper integrated health and social care system for patients all the way through their lives.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the report, and particular work needs to be done in the area the Minister has just described. The NHS is very diverse, more than most public sector groupings. Therefore, if there is a problem there, it needs addressing and it should be given high priority.

First, the real issue that worries the public at the moment concerns the little statement sneaked out by the Secretary of State that he has now agreed to a 15-year work strategy being prepared. The public are worried about the great number of unfilled vacancies in the National Health Service. That number continues to rise, and we now have more than 100,000 vacancies. The public expect the Government to move in a number of ways to try to fill those vacancies, rather than simply waiting for a long-term strategy. Will the Minister tell the House what new ideas the Government have to fill the vacancies? I know that is not an easy question to answer.

Secondly, I suggest that the Government have conversations with the agencies, which supply staff to so many different places in the NHS at such high costs, to see whether some accommodation could not be reached with them. Thirdly, I have personally had experience recently of being treated in the private sector. I spent some time talking to the staff, many of whom were ex-NHS and said they would never return to it. I would like to know what work has been done by the Government in exploring the views held by those people who have left NHS service to establish why they have gone, and what they would need to see change in the NHS to encourage them to return to it.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for that question. We should look at the context of the different environment and the challenges that our health service and health and social care system is facing compared to in earlier years. A number of different factors have come together. One is that we have an ageing population and people are living longer but not necessarily living longer well, and therefore, where before the focus was mainly on physical treatments, we are now far more aware of issues like dementia and the challenges presented by ageing populations. On top of that, we are simply aware of more conditions. I have just come out of a debate on neurological conditions, of which I was told that there are probably 600. When I was a child, that probably would have been dismissed—no one would have thought that there were such a number—so there is more awareness of the issues to be treated.

Mental health is now treated more seriously. It was never taken seriously before; it was always about “pull yourself together” or the stiff upper lip, but now we understand that people have mental health conditions. We need to make sure that we have a health and care system, including private and independent, that can meet those needs.

One of the challenges is that we need more doctors and nurses. The funny thing is that we actually have more NHS doctors and nurses than ever before, but we recognise that on top of that we still need more. Investing in the workforce is therefore a key priority.

There is the 15-year plan, as I have said. The NHS also has the people recovery task force to make sure that all NHS staff are not only kept safe but retained. There are a number of initiatives, which I am happy to write to the noble Lord about, about helping staff who feel burned out, as well as retention programmes.

On top of that, we have increased the number of medical school places. We have found that students are sometimes more likely to stay close to areas where they have studied, so new medical schools have opened in some of those places which have found it hard to recruit. We also have more new nurses coming through the system but, despite that, there is still demand for more. We are looking at various ways to improve retention but also attract new staff.